Sean Russell statue defaced overnight

Danzy

marieholmfan wrote: »

So are you asserting that holocaust denial is the mainstream view? Because there no , none , zero academic historians who claim that Mao Zedong is repsonsible for genocide.

Semantics over 50 to 80 million killed. Nice.

Bonniedog

marieholmfan wrote: »

So are you asserting that holocaust denial is the mainstream view? Because there no , none , zero academic historians who claim that Mao Zedong is repsonsible for genocide.

They might not be mentioned in whatever leftie porn you read, but there are a large number of academic historians who detail Mao's genocide, against the Tibetans, other ethnic groups, and indeed against the majority Chinese population.

Dikkoter's book based on the Chinese archives - The Great Famine - would be a good place to start educating yourself.

feargale

WrenBoy wrote: »

"Russell's legacy is deeply contested. Both Sinn Féin and Republican Sinn Féin continue to commemorate him as an Irish patriot. Others condemn him as a Nazi collaborator. It had been said he "cared little for Nazi ideology" and he was accused of being a communist spy.[10] Irish historian Brian Hanley suggests that Russell was not a Nazi but concludes that his letters to his German contacts "betray astonishing political naiveté".

Russell himself told the Germans that "I am not a Nazi. I’m not even pro-German. I am an Irishman fighting for the independence of Ireland." and that "If it suits Germany to give us help to achieve independence, I am willing to accept it, but no more, and there must be no strings attached"[11][12]

Erwin Lahousen said that Russell disagreed with Nazi philosophy and strongly rejected attempts to convert him"

Life isn't black and white.

The black and white test is applied strictly to servants of the state while its enemies are granted an exemption.


The first direct talks between the IRA and the Nazis began in 1937 when Tom Barry, the then chief-of-staff, travelled to Germany.

Jim O'Donovan, explosives expert and architect of thevWWII bombing campaign in Britain ( mainly against civilians) became increasingly enamoured of Nazi ideology during that time, and visited Germany three times. In 1942 he wrote an article arguing that Ireland's future lay in an alliance with a victorious Germany and attacked Britain and the United States for being "centres of Freemasonry, international financial control and Jewry".

IRA Chief of Staff Stephen Hayes had sent a plan for the invasion of Northern Ireland by German troops to Germany in April 1940. This plan later became known as Plan Kathleen. He is also known to have met with German agent Hermann Görtz on 21 May 1940 in Dublin shortly after the latter's parachuting into Ireland on 5 May 1940 as part of Operation Mainau.

IRA attempts to re-establish contact with Germany gathered pace when German Sergeant Gunther Schuetz escaped from Mountjoy Gaol in February 1942 and made contact with the IRA. Schuetz made contact with Mrs Caítlín Brugha (widow of Cathal Brugha) and then Chief if Staff Sean McCool quickly developed plans to get Schuetz out of the country with a shopping list of weapons for the IRA.

Oh here’s to Adolph Hitler,
Who made the Britons squeal,
Sure before the fight is ended
They will dance an Irish reel.’
(War News, 21 November 1940)

marieholmfan

Bonniedog wrote: »

They might not be mentioned in whatever leftie porn you read, but there are a large number of academic historians who detail Mao's genocide, against the Tibetans, other ethnic groups, and indeed against the majority Chinese population.

Dikkoter's book based on the Chinese archives - The Great Famine - would be a good place to start educating yourself.

Dikotterhas been debunked.

marieholmfan

Danzy wrote: »

Semantics over 50 to 80 million killed. Nice.

Why do you refuse to accept that the holocaust was a crime for which almost all German adults of that time are guilty?

Eric Cartman

marieholmfan wrote: »

Why do you refuse to accept that the holocaust was a crime for which almost all German adults of that time are guilty?

Almost all german adults are not guilty of those atrocities. Many harboured jews to save their lives, many disapproved of the nazis but were too terrified to speak.

The legacies of stalin, mao and che guevara are as awful as hitlers for the holocaust. All of these attrocities deserve condemnation, their flags seen as hate symbols and their supporters reviled.

marieholmfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Almost all german adults are not guilty of those atrocities. Many harboured jews to save their lives, many disapproved of the nazis but were too terrified to speak.

The legacies of stalin, mao and che guevara are as awful as hitlers for the holocaust. All of these attrocities deserve condemnation, their flags seen as hate symbols and their supporters reviled.

This I think meets the classic definition of holocaust denial. Scratch an anti-communist find a fascist.

marieholmfan

Mao's Famine is described by Dikotter and fellow travellers the worst catastrophe anywhere.

They are quite wrong. The mortality rate during the worst year of the GLF (1960), while exceptional by the standards of socialist China, was quite unexceptional when compared to the mortality rates of the two other big Asian countries, Indonesia, and India of the time (26/1000, 24/1000, 25/1000 respectively). In the other years of the GLF the mortality rate was actually less than that of India (refer work by Patnaik).

Furthermore, pre-revoultionary China, consistently had mortality rates which were at or exceeded the rates of the worst year (1960) of the GLF.

The GLF was a catastrophe relative to the otherwise tremendous accomplishments of the new regime in reducing mortality and raising life expectancy.

Dikotter is patently dishonest. He calculates excess deaths based on deaths over 10/1000. 10/1000 was the mortality rate of advanced countries like the US at the time. Yet Banister puts the mortality rate at 38/1000 in 1949, only 8 years before the GLF. If the communists really had achieved a 'normal' mortality rate of 10/1000 by 1958 (the same as the developed countries), then they surely deserve all the credit for saving millions of lives, up to that point.

If you accept the massive excess deaths calculations of Dikotter and you then have to accept that mortality in revolutionary China was normally extremely low for a developing country - and then credit the number of lives saved to Mao.

The fact is that the number of people (as a proportion of the population) who died in the three or four years of the GLF was less than over any chosen consecutive three year period in pre-revolutionary China. More people died in India as a proportion of the population than in China, over the same period as the GLF.

So how can one logically proclaim the GLF to be humanity's greatest catastrophe?

In fact the most rapid increase in China's population happened under the Mao era --- but in a time of falling fertility. Why? Obviously the only possible explanation is a dramatic decline in mortality. Amartya Sen calculates 4 million excess deaths on average for the Indian 'democratic' experiment over China's socialist system. I trust Sen over Dikotter anyday of the week. He is a Nobel prize wining economist.

Mao's system probably saved close to 100 million lives (refer Chomsky on Sen's work). That is had China followed the development model of other backward countries, one hundred million more people would have died than under the Maoist system. Thus it could possibly argued that Mao was the greatest humanitarian in history.

Eric Cartman

marieholmfan wrote: »

This I think meets the classic definition of holocaust denial. Scratch an anti-communist find a fascist.

Ive read some out there posts in my time on this site, but this is a new low, conflating being anti communist with being a fascist, inventing holocaust denial while denying the attrocities of communist regimes, this post has everything that defines the term ‘looney left’

marieholmfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive read some out there posts in my time on this site, but this is a new low, conflating being anti communist with being a fascist, inventing holocaust denial while denying the attrocities of communist regimes, this post has everything that defines the term ‘looney left’

I'm fairly sure that the official definition of anti-semitism says that conflating the holocaust with other (unintentional) atrocities is anti semitic.

Eric Cartman

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the official definition of anti-semitism says that conflating the holocaust with other (unintentional) atrocities is anti semitic.

Wow....

Danzy

Anti Communism is a commitment to human dignity, human rights, opposition to totalitarianism.

Show me a Communist and I'll show you someone who will collaborate with the nazi's in Poland.

Nermal

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the official definition of anti-semitism says that conflating the holocaust with other (unintentional) atrocities is anti semitic.

It does not, unless you think that just comparing them is suggesting the Holocaust was not intentional.

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/JBI-Annex1.pdf

Bonniedog

marieholmfan wrote: »

Dikotterhas been debunked.

I suspect you never heard of him before i mentioned his name

Now. Who exactly "debunked" him?

Danzy

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the official definition of anti-semitism says that conflating the holocaust with other (unintentional) atrocities is anti semitic.

If you are using it to downplay the holocaust. It would be.

feargale

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the official definition of anti-semitism says that conflating the holocaust with other (unintentional) atrocities is anti semitic.

Give us an example of an unintentional atrocity.