Sean Russell statue defaced overnight

gibsmedat

I find it hard to understand the gay angle here?

Are they just looking for attention or what?

JohnnyFlash

gibsmedat wrote: »

I find it hard to understand the gay angle here?

Are they just looking for attention or what?

Russell = Nazi
Nazi = Bad

There’s no nuance or real thought processes with mobs. And if you think this mob is bad then wait until the other mob get going.

SouthWesterly

endainoz wrote: »

If only there was some way to document history physically on paper.....

Who the fcuk gets their history from statues?

It sparks a conversation. But it's just the beginning of a rewriting of events

By the way, the third word in your final sentence is spelled incorrectly

Hamsterchops

jacool wrote: »

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what is says under the statue i.e. how is he described there?

"He befriended Nazi ideology so that Ireland could be free from the clutches of the evil Empire". probably.

Detail: https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-russell-statue-3549072-Aug2017/

Gregor Samsa

It's been contentious from the very start.

His statue was first defaced in 1952 with paint, less than a year after it was unveiled. In 1953, it's arm was broken off by a right-wing group who objected to him having looked for weapons from the Soviet Union before he went to the Nazis. The original pose depicted him with a clenched fist, which some also saw as a Communist symbol that was disrespectful to him.



A new stone version of the statue was put up in 1965, with the arms drawn in to stop a repeat of that attack. Then in 2005 his head got lobbed off by an anti-fascist group.




The current version - with arms in and this time made of bronze, which is more difficult to break, was put up in 2009. But the graffiti continued.

At one point in 2009, swastika flags were placed on the pedestal.



Someone then came along and turned the swastikas into Peace symbols.



There's never a dull moment with that statue.

sabat

endainoz wrote: »

If only there was some way to document history physically on paper.....

Who the fcuk gets their history from statues?

Archaeologists?

c.p.w.g.w

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Russell = Nazi
Nazi = Bad

There’s no nuance or real thought processes with mobs. And if you think this mob is bad then wait until the other mob get going.

This is what rote learning has lead us to...learn off information, unable to analysis it, discuss it or see the nuance of historical/politic events

paw patrol

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/

You might want to have a read of this, which sets out very clearly, the extent of IRA collaboration with the Nazis, including Russell's acts.

it may do but it's inaccurate . woefully so.


read post quoted below.

WrenBoy wrote: »

He also went to the Soviets and Americans to get arms and money. So I assume he's simultaneously a Nazi, Communist and Free Market Capitalist.

CrankyHaus

The Nazis weren't helping him for the craic. They saw a benefit from making common cause with the IRA. Thus the IRA agreed to assist the Nazis war effort.

IMO the IRA bombings in the UK in 1939-40 had zero benefit to Ireland, though thankfully they didn't do much damage or provide any real advantage to the Nazis.

If it was a "blueshirt" teaming up with Hitler republicans would never let you hear the end of it either.

That said I think the statue should stand, unvandalised.

c.p.w.g.w

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The Nazis weren't helping him for the craic. They saw a benefit from making common cause with the IRA. Thus the IRA agreed to assist the Nazis war effort.

IMO the IRA bombings in the UK in 1939-40 had zero benefit to Ireland, though thankfully they didn't do much damage or provide any real advantage to the Nazis.

If it was a "blueshirt" teaming up with Hitler republicans would never let you hear the end of it either.

That said I think the statue should stand, unvandalised.

Ah these blueshirts

Cal4567

Statues. That's so last week, or was it even the week before?

Why are always the last to the party in Ireland.

ThewhiteJesus

Just leave Luke Kellys statue alone ffs !

blanch152

Bambi wrote: »

I wonder will Varadker come out and clearly condemn this, given his previous statements.

Here's what German Intelligence thought of Russell:
“The Irish man was a hyper-sensitive Celt who, however willing he might be to use the Germans for his own political ends, regarded the Nazi philosophy as anathema... Russell was the only one of the I.R.A. with whom I dealt who was a real Irish Republican of the old school”.

I wonder if their opinion of Eoin O'Duffy was more flattering, eh Blanch?

Another one who didn't bother reading the link and educating themselves.

"The IRA’s statements drew angry responses from Irish Freedom, published by the Connolly Association, and Irish Workers Weekly, published by the Communist Party of Ireland, who criticised the IRA for inviting ‘German soldiers to come and devastate the country they talk of freeing’. These papers also noted how the IRA and their ‘strange bedfellow General O’Duffy’ were lauding as ‘liberators’ powers that held ‘Abyssinia, Austria, Albania and Czechoslovakia’ in subjection. The reference to the former Blueshirt leader was apt. During 1940 IRA officers approached O’Duffy and asked him to become an intelligence operative for the organisation. Irish Freedom noted with disgust how the Nazis seemed to have been able to ‘corrupt’ some of the leading Irish republicans."


"Indeed, by 1940 republicans and former Blueshirts were mingling in a variety of small pro-German organisations in Dublin. What is clear is that at least a section of the IRA leadership was attracted by Nazism’s successes."

The thing is, by the time O'Duffy was interested in Nazism, he was long expelled from Fine Gael and the Blueshirts and was talking to the IRA and their supporters about their shared interests.

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/

You might want to have a read of this, which sets out very clearly, the extent of IRA collaboration with the Nazis, including Russell's acts.

blanch152

paw patrol wrote: »

it may do but it's inaccurate . woefully so.


read post quoted below.

Historical journal versus unsubstantiated claim from anonymous internet poster.

You pick the latter? Funny.

paw patrol

blanch152 wrote: »

Historical journal versus unsubstantiated claim from anonymous internet poster.

You pick the latter? Funny.

yes if its full of ****e as it is.
even wikipedia has more references and quotes than that rameish you posted.


he is a hero of irish nationalism , if you don't get that then you know nothing on the subject

CrankyHaus

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Ah these blueshirts

Well done. You proved my point about the double standards on this issue. I criticise both, instead of attempting to absolve my favoured side of any responsibility for its connections to Fascists.

imme

gibsmedat wrote: »

This is one of the funniest things I've seen on Boards in a while.

From recent events in USA to how that was transported and translated to the UK to Ireland.

Now this AFA people with their leaflet, are they the Anti Fascist Alliance or Action.

Never heard of them before. Putting the call out for the alphabet soup of 'progressives' -to protect a protest against a protest being hijacked what a mind fook.

Bonniedog

What did Russell do on the gay lads?

The Cubans were torturing them and locking them up until a few years back and lefties never opened their bake.

Why dont they spray the Cuban Embassy?

imme

Bonniedog wrote: »

What did Russell do on the gay lads?

The Cubans were torturing them and locking them up until a few years back and lefties never opened their bake.

Why dont they spray the Cuban Embassy?

Gays were sent to concentration camps, this is Pride Week, could be that.

is_that_so

WrenBoy wrote: »

"Russell's legacy is deeply contested. Both Sinn Féin and Republican Sinn Féin continue to commemorate him as an Irish patriot. Others condemn him as a Nazi collaborator. It had been said he "cared little for Nazi ideology" and he was accused of being a communist spy.[10] Irish historian Brian Hanley suggests that Russell was not a Nazi but concludes that his letters to his German contacts "betray astonishing political naiveté".

Russell himself told the Germans that "I am not a Nazi. I’m not even pro-German. I am an Irishman fighting for the independence of Ireland." and that "If it suits Germany to give us help to achieve independence, I am willing to accept it, but no more, and there must be no strings attached"[11][12]

Erwin Lahousen said that Russell disagreed with Nazi philosophy and strongly rejected attempts to convert him"

Life isn't black and white.

It is when you have a pot of paint in your hand!

Bonniedog

imme wrote: »

Gays were sent to concentration camps, this is Pride Week, could be that.

The IRA had a concentration camp for gays!!! Cant't wait to read your buke.

The Cubans did have camps for gays and murdered lots of gay people.

You recall the leftie demos about that don't you?

They were on site of IRA camp for gays in Crossmaglen

StackSteevens

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Just leave Luke Kellys statue alone ffs !

Better option would be to move it to somewhere where the indigenous population has a somewhat less absolutist appreciation of the fine arts.

As a matter of interest, isn't there some sort of monument/statue to little Steevie Gateley near to Luke Kelly's? If so, then how come it's never vandalised?

jmayo

WrenBoy wrote: »

He also went to the Soviets and Americans to get arms and money. So I assume he's simultaneously a Nazi, Communist and Free Market Capitalist.

Typical fooking shinner flip flopping all over the place.

Anyway why do people impose todays standards on what happened years ago.
Fooking hell in the UK the Labour of the 50s and 60s would make today's conservatives look positively far left wing when it comes to things like immigration.

Likewise with most liberal minded people of the 50s and 60s looking right wing by today's standards.

Fann Linn

StackSteevens wrote: »

Better option would be to move it to somewhere where the indigenous population has a somewhat less absolutist appreciation of the fine arts.

As a matter of interest, isn't there some sort of monument/statue to little Steevie Gateley near to Luke Kelly's? If so, then how come it's never vandalised?

Was he gay?

ThewhiteJesus

imme wrote: »

Gays were sent to concentration camps, this is Pride Week, could be that.

You wouldn’t even get soap in those showers

marieholmfan

imme wrote: »

Gays were sent to concentration camps, this is Pride Week, could be that.

Varadkar has expressed a desire to have Russell's statue removed ; it is more likely to be young Fine Gael than any gay organisation.

gibsmedat

Wasnt there a gay murdered in that park back in the 80s? Younglads got away with it as far as i can remember. Maybe relevant, maybe not.

ThewhiteJesus

StackSteevens wrote: »

Better option would be to move it to somewhere where the indigenous population has a somewhat less absolutist appreciation of the fine arts.

As a matter of interest, isn't there some sort of monument/statue to little Steevie Gateley near to Luke Kelly's? If so, then how come it's never vandalised?

it's right behind it !

kildare lad

I hope the people that done this, protest all the others major companies that worked with the Nazis aswell , Volkswagen , BMW, Hugo boss , Kodak etc etc

Annasopra

marieholmfan wrote: »

Varadkar has expressed a desire to have Russell's statue removed ; it is more likely to be young Fine Gael than any gay organisation.

Young FG are more likely Russell Supporters

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/split-in-young-fine-gael-after-president-attends-right-wing-us-conference-1.3980549?mode=amp