Europol: Ireland hit by surge of ‘right-wing extremism’

TomTomTim

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

None of these countries are socialists. The Danes I know in particular would actively refute the accusation.

The Danish PM had to call out this nonsense a few years ago
https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders

BarnardsLoop

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Quite well documented and you throw up a link to wiki, which goes on to say:



Even your Haaretz article, which is behind a paywall, acknowledges that the context in which it is used is important:



Clearly nuance isn't your strong point.

Nor yours or you'd understand that someone complaining about "globalists" and "their plans to divide and conquer us through mass immigration from outside Europe" couldn't be any more obvious unless they just said "Jews".

Also the key word there is economic; what does "divide and conquer us through mass immigration" have to do with economics?

As they say in the US, don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. I've seen that language used by unabashed antisemites enough times to recognise it.

What reasons are these, they aren't at all clear?

Well if someone won't accept clearly presented evidence then there's not much basis for a discussion. If you show someone a photo of the Earth and they continue to claim it's flat, what's the point?

Is that sufficiently clear for you or do I need to break it down into monosyllabic words?

The OP said not sure, not that they believed that. You always seem to think you can see people's 'true intentions'. And these intentions are never well intentioned. As I said, building up bogeymans, or strawmans if you'd like, to argue against.

And of course antisemites never couch their language in reasonable sounding terms to try and persuade other people!

Come off it, you think I'm seeing boogeymen? You're looking for ways to excuse obviously antisemitic rhetoric.

I don't take kindly to them. Thankfully, today, Ireland has few homophobes and people who are opposed to women's rights. The fight for these things had been ongoing since the foundation of the state and we have only recently won these battles. I suggest we limit the number of people coming here who may like to bring us back 80 years.

Also, I don't consider such people my friends either. But these homegrown views are homegrown, they are not imported views from abroad.

Yes, exactly. Those views aren't being "imported". Nor is there any basis for the ridiculous notion that somehow they'll become a large enough bloc as to effect the kind of political change you seem to be suggesting will happen here.

Are you referring to yesterday? I had no idea what you were trying to say, which is why I was asking for clarification. You always throw out words terms like 'certain types', 'people like you' or even here, 'reasons that I think are clear enough'. Yet when asked what to clarify you mean, you refuse to do so.

Because, as I said yesterday, I'm not the kind of person who can be baited into giving you the kind of reply you're so obviously looking for. Again, obviously, because you so clearly (and bizarrely) want to paint yourself as some kind of victim here.

Well I'll save you the time. I haven't.

If you say so.

BarnardsLoop

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

The 2 posts you quoted were in relation to economics:



Nothing about any kind of replacement or anti-semitic conspiracy theories there and:



Both these comments are in relation to economic policies. Yet, as per, you've built up an anti-semitism bogeyman to fight against.

Still not seeing that that has to do with "globalists" and some supposed "plans to divide and conquer us through mass immigration from outside Europe".

Again, I think you're only seeing what you want to see because the alternative is rather ugly.

BarnardsLoop

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Don't agree that Globalism equates to Jews but there are certainly many, many prominent Western Jews who openly advocate and celebrate the displacement of whites in Western nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory wrote:

Since 1996, the term has spread in usage, and is now popular with many other antisemitic organizations. Swedish Neo-Nazis, for example, say that Jews—in what they call the Swedish Zionist Occupied Government—are importing immigrants to "dilute the blood of the white race". The antisemitic website Jew Watch claims that the entire spectrum of Western nations and other countries are being ruled by "Zionist Occupation Governments".

Not even being subtle about it at this point, eh?

biko

About arson attacks.

There was a huge case in Sweden where there was a fire at a mosque.
It was attributed to right-wing people having put the place on fire.
The Minister for Democracy (yes, they have one for that) was on TV saying freedom of religion was at stake.
Everyone was up in arms.

6 months later is was concluded it was a deep fat fryer in their kitchen that had caught fire...
But I'm sure tons of people don't know and still think right-wingers burned down a mosque.

BarnardsLoop

Kind of different when multiple hotels (one attacked twice) that also happened to have been announced were going to be used as housing for asylum seekers happen to be the only ones attacked.

I think I get your point but... it's not really relevant. One incident of the far-right not having been the cause doesn't mean they can't be the cause elsewhere, especially under different circumstances.

kowloon

Just in case I haven't said it in this thread yet: The Left-Right political spectrum is bull**** and has outlived its usefulness. You can't distil complicated issues down to one of two camps and expect to make everything easy to understand and not abstracted to fcuk.

Clarence Boddiker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Don't agree that Globalism equates to Jews but there are certainly many, many prominent Western Jews who openly advocate and celebrate the displacement of whites in Western nations.

What relevance is a person being Jewish? Also I'm guessing you're jumping into George Soros conspiracy territory...

CtevenSrowder

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Nor yours or you'd understand that someone complaining about "globalists" and "their plans to divide and conquer us through mass immigration from outside Europe" couldn't be any more obvious unless they just said "Jews".

Also the key word there is economic; what does "divide and conquer us through mass immigration" have to do with economics?

Mass immigration could be seen as an economic policy. There are too many jobs, and not enough people to do them, a government wants to lower the wage level by increasing demand for jobs, the population is too old and a government wants more young people so decided to take in people from abroad. Mass immigration is seen as a key cornerstone of Globalisation.

The divide and conquer comment could mean to usurp are market economies in order to supplant other economic methods instead, such as socialism or communism. It's you whose decided to bring Jews into the discussion. Noone else.

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

As they say in the US, don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. I've seen that language used by unabashed antisemites enough times to recognise it.

I couldn't give a bollox what they say in the US. Are you American, or consume a lot of American media? It would explain a lot.

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Well if someone won't accept clearly presented evidence then there's not much basis for a discussion. If you show someone a photo of the Earth and they continue to claim it's flat, what's the point?

Is that sufficiently clear for you or do I need to break it down into monosyllabic words?

You haven't given 'clear evidence'. Ok, so far-right groups and people use the term Globalist as an anti-semitic slur. Both many others do not use it in such a way. You've seen the word and instantaneously assumed the poster is an anti-semite. Clearly, you fancy yourself as some sort of mind-reader.

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

And of course antisemites never couch their language in reasonable sounding terms to try and persuade other people!

Come off it, you think I'm seeing boogeymen? You're looking for ways to excuse obviously antisemitic rhetoric.



Yes, exactly. Those views aren't being "imported". Nor is there any basis for the ridiculous notion that somehow they'll become a large enough bloc as to effect the kind of political change you seem to be suggesting will happen here.

Ofcourse there is a basis for it. Who 30, 40 years ago would've thought Ireland would be as liberal as it is today? Just because we have moved forwards doesn't mean we can't move back. As recently as 2016 half of British Muslims believed that being gay should be illegal*, that is roughly 1.3 million people. This doesn't include those that believe it should be legal but things like same-sex marriage should be illegal. The number of Muslims in the UK is said to triple by 2050**. 25% of those polled wanted sharia law. I suggest Ireland has a serious think if we won't to go down a similar path that Britain has.

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Because, as I said yesterday, I'm not the kind of person who can be baited into giving you the kind of reply you're so obviously looking for. Again, obviously, because you so clearly (and bizarrely) want to paint yourself as some kind of victim here.

If you say so.

Baited? I am asking for clarification. Is what you mean a bannable offence on boards, is that why you won't say what it is that you mean?

Do you even know yourself what you mean?

Why won't you just be open and honest? Truly bizarre.

*https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/muslim-population-uk-could-triple-13m-following-record-influx/#:~:text=The%20Muslim%20population%20of,2016%20to%2013m%20in%202050.

Clarence Boddiker

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Not even being subtle about it at this point, eh?

Noel Ignatiev, Historian, formlerly of Harvard University and Author of "How the Irish became white"
"Whiteness is a form of racial oppression, Treason to whiteness is loyalty to Humanity. The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition"

Susan Sontag, writer and philosopher
"The White race is the Cancer of Human history"

Barbara Lerner Spectre, director of the European Institute for Jewish Studies "Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that"

Clarence Boddiker

Deleted User wrote: »

What relevance is a person being Jewish? Also I'm guessing you're jumping into George Soros conspiracy territory...

Same relevance as when Whites are called out for their privilege,
we need to talk about Jewish privilege.

DelaneyIn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And there are PLENTY of socialist countries that are not basket cases. Like Denmark. Like Norway, Sweden Germany etc.

They are social democracies. All three have a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on of free-market capitalism.

I don’t think you know what socialist means. You should be covering this next year for your CSPE exam.

BarnardsLoop

Cteven I'm going to level with you here: I really don't have the material to keep this up. Nor do I really have the same kind of passion that I had in my youth. It's clear we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this matter so... ask yourself, is it really worth continuing this?

Nothing I say and no amount of evidence I present will convince you otherwise so I don't really see the point in continuing. Though I will note that I'm not American, just that as I'm sure you understand, living in the Anglosphere as we do in Ireland, it's easy to pick up American idioms and expressions.

Bottom line: if you want to get the last word in, now would be a good point to do it.

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Noel Ignatiev, Historian, formlerly of Harvard University and Author of "How the Irish became white"
"Whiteness is a form of racial oppression, Treason to whiteness is loyalty to Humanity. The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition"

Talking about "whiteness" as a social construct that has its basis in white privilege (not being discriminated against on your skin colour because you're white, etc.), not about "the displacement of whites in Western nations.".

Susan Sontag, writer and philosopher
"The White race is the Cancer of Human history"

Again, not talking about "the displacement of whites in Western nations.".

Barbara Lerner Spectre, director of the European Institute for Jewish Studies "Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that"

https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/03/18/recognizing-antisemitism-is-the-first-step-to-fighting-it/ wrote:

[...] Few, if any, European Jewish leaders will share her views, but the relevance of her judgment is not the issue here. Hate-promoters picked up the broadcast and shared it en masse, presenting it as proof that Jews intend to take over Europe. Over recent years, this broadcast has attracted a barrage of at least 50, if not many more, articles and postings on hate sites and blogs, including Stormfront, a large white-supremacist site. Antisemitic hate reactions have overwhelmed Google, making it difficult to find any other statements by Spectre using the search engine.[...]

And a third time, not talking about "the displacement of whites in Western nations.".

Three people is not "many, many Jews", no matter what way you cut it.

Beechwoodspark

Did anyone see prime time last night?

Did you think it was fair and balanced?

Nesta2018

Oh Christ, just caught up. I'm anti Semitic apparently. And you don't believe that I'm a woman. FFS. Haven't the energy for that. By globalists I mean the tiny percentage of billionaires who own a disproportionate amount of the world's wealth and whose interests are served by the erosion of nation states. I never said a single word about Jewish people unless it's one of these famous "dog whistles" I hear so much about.

Clarence Boddiker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Same relevance as when Whites are called out for their privilege,
we need to talk about Jewish privilege.

Eh, Jewish people as a grouping have been historically subjected to large amounts of bigotry because they are Jewish. Also had loads of conspiracies around them controlling the world in the background which doesn't sound dissimilar to what you're saying. So not remotely similar to white privilege.

CtevenSrowder

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Cteven I'm going to level with you here: I really don't have the material to keep this up. Nor do I really have the same kind of passion that I had in my youth. It's clear we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this matter so... ask yourself, is it really worth continuing this?

Nothing I say and no amount of evidence I present will convince you otherwise so I don't really see the point in continuing. Though I will note that I'm not American, just that as I'm sure you understand, living in the Anglosphere as we do in Ireland, it's easy to pick up American idioms and expressions.

Chance at the last word? I'm all over that:D

CtevenSrowder

Nesta2018 wrote: »

Oh Christ, just caught up. I'm anti Semitic apparently. And you don't believe that I'm a woman. FFS. Haven't the energy for that. By globalists I mean the tiny percentage of billionaires who own a disproportionate amount of the world's wealth and whose interests are served by the erosion of nation states. I never said a single word about Jewish people unless it's one of these famous "dog whistles" I hear so much about.

Don't worry, the majority reading the thread will have realised as such.

BarnardsLoop

Nesta2018 wrote: »

Oh Christ, just caught up. I'm anti Semitic apparently. And you don't believe that I'm a woman. FFS. Haven't the energy for that. By globalists I mean the tiny percentage of billionaires who own a disproportionate amount of the world's wealth and whose interests are served by the erosion of nation states.

Okay, well, all I'll say then is that you're either knowingly or unknowningly repeating antisemitic tropes.

i.e. Jews disproportionately control most or all of the world's wealth (or otherwise hold disproportionate power over Western nations) and they want to erode/destroy Western nations. And those aren't exactly new notions.

I never said a single word about Jewish people unless it's one of these famous "dog whistles" I hear so much about.

Oh, does that mean you're the kind of person who thinks dog-whistles don't exist?

TomTomTim

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Okay, well, all I'll say then is that you're either knowingly or unknowningly repeating antisemitic tropes.

i.e. Jews disproportionately control most or all of the world's wealth (or otherwise hold disproportionate power over Western nations) and they want to erode/destroy Western nations. And those aren't exactly new notions.



Oh, does that mean you're the kind of person who thinks dog-whistles don't exist?

Honestly it's getting to the stage where it's looking like it's you who may be the antisemite, as you're clearly projecting. You're the only one thinking of Jews when people mention globalism.

BarnardsLoop

Right... Suppose I mustn't have linked articles discussing that it's a phenomenon these days! Oh and please, "no u" is really the kind of tepid memery that should be left on 4chan.

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Deportations provide a politically expedient option. Closing borders to begin with provides a politically expedient option

deportations already happen when and where required, we are not going to simply deport people without finding out as to whether they have an actual case to remain or not, or because they are black or brown, or whatever other nonsense reason. you will just have to get used to that.
closing our borders on a general level isn't going to be viable, in saying that a temporary closure may become necessary from time to time where pandemics may be concerned but that's a separate discussion.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The plastic coating off copper wire ? , rubbish ?

presumably just the stuff belonging to brown and black people though?
it's brown and black people these particular arsonists have an issue with.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Often thought the same.

Why is there no centers in rathmines Rathgar ballsbridge etc ?

presumably because there are no suitable empty buildings in those areas.
in more remote areas there can be such suitable empty buildings due to rural decline, hence it makes sense to use the available capacity and perhapse even create some local employment.
certainly if particular areas are deliberately being excluded from hosting direct provision accommodation when it actually is available within those areas, then that should be rectified.

ExMachina1000

The Libyan individual who went on a stabbing spree in the UK cannot be deported after his prison sentence because Libya is a war zone. It is against his human rights.

That's not great for anyone

BarnardsLoop

Not really sure what that has to do with rising right-wing extremism in Ireland, though.

ExMachina1000

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Not really sure what that has to do with rising right-wing extremism in Ireland, though.

The same report talks about jihadist groups too. Northern Irish nationalists also got a mention.

Far right attacks and Jihadist attacks are two of the highest dangers in Europe now. Lock them all up

https://euobserver.com/justice/148746

BarnardsLoop

I see.

Would you perhaps like to make a thread to discuss that separate topic? Getting a little tired of the desperate attempts to drag this one off-topic.

ExMachina1000

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

I see.

Would you perhaps like to make a thread to discuss that separate topic? Getting a little tired of the desperate attempts to drag this one off-topic.

If I started a thread about jihadists in Europe it would be shot down immediately.

The report spoke about jihadists too. I just mentioned it . But you are correct. That's not the thread. I will pull up the handbrake on the old jihad talk. Fair enough

StackSteevens

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Is that the same Europol who found a position for Noirin O'Sullivan, the one who "mislaid" her phones and laptop and who even with the help of her detective inspector husband couldn't manage to locate any of them and then off she heads to Europol to solve crime leaving a trail of destruction after her, not a bother on her the scoundrel

Presumably NOS gave her phone and PC back to the GS IT Unit in the Depot where they were wiped and either scrapped or reissued, depending on their condition; as happens in every Government Body that I've ever been involved with. But please don't allow the application of a modicum of common sense and a bit of cop-on prevent you from sharing the contents of your fertile imagination with your devoted followers.

Junkyard Tom

DelaneyIn wrote: »

They are social democracies. All three have a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on of free-market capitalism. I don’t think you know what socialist means.

There is no such thing as 'free-Market capitalism' and there can't be practically --you simply can't have competing energy grids, sanitation systems, motorways and so on.

'Free Markets' mean perfect competition which means what you have to sell your competitor also has, which means perpetual price war and less profits.

Try getting dealers to undercut each other on a new car and you'll get a taste of the 'free market'. Sure, they might fill the tank, throw in a set of mats and a years tax but the difference across the state will be negligible.