Smoking stove

6541

Hi All,
I would be grateful for some help. I have a Stratford stove when I open the door it lets smoke into the room. I am convinced it is draft and that I need to extend the chimney. The chimney has Flexi flu installed in it.
How can I extend the height of the chimney ? Is it possible to attach a pipe to the flexi flu ?
Any help appreciated.
6541

GinSoaked

New or old house if new how new. Often the problem is nothing to do with the chimney on a new house and more to do with no where for the air to come in from.

Provided you have at least 4 meters of chimney above the stove and the chimney is higher than the roof you shouldn't need to extend it.

Stigura

Before ye do anything more drastic, may I just suggest ye get ye hand in to where the stove meets the wall / chimney?

One of my stoves was filling the entire place with smoke. It was ridiculous. I was thinking of everything. Till a mate took all the guts out of the stove and shone a torch in.

Yep. A doughnut of 'carbon' had built up in the ring where the stove fitted to the chimney. Not encrusted and blocked, mind. Just maybe making an eight inch hole a seven inch one?

Ripped that away with his fingers. Stove is now absolutely perfect. Time? Fifteen minutes all told. Cost? A heart felt " Thanks, mate! "

6541

It is a 1970's bungalow, if that helps.

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

It is a 1970's bungalow, if that helps.

Should be plenty of air flow in one of those

Assuming the chimney isn't blocked and isn't anywhere stupid like the side of the house and below the ridge, what happens if you shut all the doors/open doors?

6541

Thanks for this. Chimney definitely isn't blocked. It doesn't matter if I open or close doors windows, it constantly smokes.
however I will say, if I need to load it with fuel and I leave the stove door open for 10 minutes pre loading it reduces the smoke output to the room. But I still get some some to the room.

GinSoaked

So describe the chimney.

6541

I will attach a photo shortly. Thanks again

6541

Please see attached image - thanks again

GinSoaked

To save me a lot of writing I found this online How a chimney works.

Even with a cold chimney there should be enough of a pressure difference between the top of the chimney and inside the house for air to be draw up through it.

So to state the obvious that isn't the case for your chimney and stove so we need to find out what is causing the problem. The pressure difference that gets the smoke starting to go up the chimney is very small so it is easy to upset it.

From what you've posted so far it seems you can get the fire going OK but when you open the fire door smoke comes out. Does this happen if you open the control vent on the fire first and then open the door very slowly and how much smoke actually comes out and does it keep coming or is it just a quick puff then back to going up the chimney. I'm trying to get a handle on how bad the problem is.

6541

Thanks for all your help. When I start a fire the smoke will bellow out into the room. So what I do is load it and and light it and close the door straight away.

If I open the control vent and open the door slowly it reduces the amount of smoke coming into the room. But I still get a lot of smoke.

What do you think ?

GinSoaked

I'm wondering if those trees near the house are anything to do with it?

The other thought is that the liner isn't joined fully to the stove so air is getting in from somewhere else reducing the pull up the chimney.

Another is how big is the stove not unusual to have a massive stove thats far to big.

6541

Its a big stove.
https://manualzz.com/doc/23720406/stratford-eco-boiler-he-stove

Attached is a picture of the stove

GinSoaked

Is the top vent for air flow to keep the glass clean? Is there another vent for temperature control?

What happens if you close the top vent and open the door slowly.

Decent size stove but I doubt its oversize for the room.

6541

yes top vent is for air flow to keep glass clean, on the left hand side there is a temperature dial.
I would have to test what happens if you close the top vent and open the door slowly - Why do you ask this ?

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

yes top vent is for air flow to keep glass clean, on the left hand side there is a temperature dial.
I would have to test what happens if you close the top vent and open the door slowly - Why do you ask this ?

Any air or smoke going up the chimney will take the course of least resistance.

If air can relieve the pressure difference in the room by going up the chimney via the top air vent it will. Closing it will show if that is part of the problem. Probably not be but worth checking. The air movement to clean the glass may also push smoke out as the door is open?

6541

Would there be any value in putting on a H Cowel or one of those Cowl Extractors ?

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

Would there be any value in putting on a H Cowel or one of those Cowl Extractors ?

I've personally never seen any value in them. If you can pinpoint the problem and say for sure its the trees then maybe an H Cowel would be worth it but I think you need to get to the bottom of the problem first.

I run a range on less chimney height with the chimney in a poor location on the side of the house and while when the wind is in one direction it smokes, most of the time its fine. I don't even seal the joints in the flu pipe. Once you have that air pressure difference it just works.

6541

Hello - Just looking for an added opinion. I lit the stoves last night as last night was like winter.
So here is the deal, loads of some comes into the room when the door is open - its constant smoke.
I opened all windows and doors for added draft and its still the same.
I also tried the top air vent thing as well and this makes no difference - Does this information point to any root cause ?

GinSoaked

Sorry for more questions but have to ask has this stove ever worked without smoking?

6541

I am afraid not - This is in my fathers house and I am sure it has never worked.

GinSoaked

If you've not done it then you need to take a look up the chimney. If you can't then you have to sweep it anyway because you can't say for sure it isn't blocked up. If that stove is used all winter or even a couple of nights every week it needs sweeping at least once and probably twice a year.

6541

I will do that - but I definitely swept it last year and I recall it was still smoking. Based on that what do you think ?

Andrea B.

Keep chatting. Have same problem and will try some of the vent/door trials tonight.

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

I will do that - but I definitely swept it last year and I recall it was still smoking. Based on that what do you think ?

Based on the fact our range smokes when it needs sweeping. Often its just the bottom 3 feet that start to choke up and if not sweep at every couple of months the 5inch (think its 5) ends up with not much more than a 2 inch hole.

If you have any bends near the bottom of the chimney they can collect soot and have the same effect. Chimney may be fine but the joints could be full from soot fall or just from tar in the smoke. Right angle bends are worse for this and should be avoided.

In your case though I would have thought the chimney was attached to the top of the stove. But that could also be where you have a problem. If the liner isn't attached to the stove and just sits on top of it then it won't work correctly. Just think how awkward it is to connect the liner to the top of that insert stove so maybe it wasn't done right?

6541

"In your case though I would have thought the chimney was attached to the top of the stove. But that could also be where you have a problem. If the liner isn't attached to the stove and just sits on top of it then it won't work correctly. Just think how awkward it is to connect the liner to the top of that insert stove so maybe it wasn't done right?"

If this is the case I have a serious problem - I would have to take down that brick fire place - that is a huge expensive job.

zimmermania

The pipe from the back of the stove should be properly attatched to the flexi flue so that air and smoke cannot escape from the flue,i was never a fan of the flexi flue.

A flue reducer works better imo 8 inches reducing to 5 or 6 inches as the case may be works really well,it pushes up into the existing flue and in a house of that vintage it is most likely an 8 inch flue.

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

"In your case though I would have thought the chimney was attached to the top of the stove. But that could also be where you have a problem. If the liner isn't attached to the stove and just sits on top of it then it won't work correctly. Just think how awkward it is to connect the liner to the top of that insert stove so maybe it wasn't done right?"

If this is the case I have a serious problem - I would have to take down that brick fire place - that is a huge expensive job.

If you can take out the top baffle then you can carefully feel around and see whats going on, beware there may be pointy ends of screws on the inside of the pipe. With a mirror you can probably see right up the chimney.

Also when the chimneys lit does any smoke come out around the liner at the top as opposed to coming out of the liner like it should.

My thoughts are that air must be getting in somewhere else for the fire to smoke like that unless its blocked. A damaged or burnt out liner might also cause that problem if air can get in at the base of the chimney.

6541

Jayaus Folks - is it all pointing to the connection to the flexi flue ?
Anything else i can do before I have to resort to taking out the brick fireplace ?

GinSoaked

6541 wrote: »

Jayaus Folks - is it all pointing to the connection to the flexi flue ?
Anything else i can do before I have to resort to taking out the brick fireplace ?

Do your best to take a look. I'd go as far as buying a cheap inspection camera to do it. Don't forget anywhere you can get a hand in you can probably get in a mobile phone and take a picture.

6541

Okay - next steps please correct me if I go anyway wrong here.
1) Clean chimney
2) I am going to take out top baffle - and try and see what is going on. Also is it okay to light stove with top baffle out - Just another test to see does it continue to smoke.
3) When Stove is lit I will check to see does smoke come out between flexi flu and chimney.

blackbox

Does it still smoke after the stove has been lighting for a couple of hours and the flue is fully warm?

6541

blackbox wrote: »

Does it still smoke after the stove has been lighting for a couple of hours and the flue is fully warm?

I am afraid so

costacorta

Yep anytime I had a problem with smoke it was A The Baffle B Chimney needed cleaning or C we had a Cowl on Chimney and Soot was sticking to it when wet and actually caused a downdraft ..

costacorta

Oh be careful taking out baffle as I’ve had some real problems with them over the years . They should ideally be taken out and cleaned around them 3 times a year if you use daily .. Yes you can use without baffle but not recommended

chooseusername

If it's always smoked I wonder if the chimney is too short?
The bungalow looks quite low in the photo.
I think anything under 5 mtrs may cause a downdraft.

GinSoaked

chooseusername wrote: »

If it's always smoked I wonder if the chimney is too short?
The bungalow looks quite low in the photo.
I think anything under 5 mtrs may cause a downdraft.

4 meters is fine and I have a range running well with a good draw up the chimney on 3 meters, only problem I have is that the chimney is below the ridge line so when the wind is from the north it blows straight down the chimney.

If you have an open fire then you need a higher chimney compared to a closed stove.

OP's chimney is well above the ridge which only leaves the trees to cause any wind problems and there don't seem to be enough in the picture to be a problem?

zimmermania

Just one last thing,looking at stove pic it seems to have been pushed inside the line of the stonework.

If this is the case the flexi flue must have been attatched to the flue pipe on the back of the stove before the stove was pushed in and if so there would have to be a lot of flexi flue behind the stove.

Could it be the case that the flexi flue kinked or came loose when the stove was being pushed into position inside the stone.

Iam assuming that the stove had to be pulled outside the line of the stone to attatch the flexi flue and then pushed in.

GinSoaked

zimmermania wrote: »

Just one last thing,looking at stove pic it seems to have been pushed inside the line of the stonework.

If this is the case the flexi flue must have been attatched to the flue pipe on the back of the stove before the stove was pushed in and if so there would have to be a lot of flexi flue behind the stove.

Could it be the case that the flexi flue kinked or came loose when the stove was being pushed into position inside the stone.

Iam assuming that the stove had to be pulled outside the line of the stone to attatch the flexi flue and then pushed in.

Thats a good point but I was thinking they may have taken the liner straight up off the top of the stove. Either way plenty of opportunity to mess the job up.

So OP's next job is to let us know where the liner is attached to the stove off the back or off the top?

zimmermania

It might not be recommended nowdays but where a stove had to have the smoke exiting from the rear i always built the fire opening up solid to the height of the back round opening usually 5 or 6 inch outlet,

I then shoved the 8 inch flue reducer up into the existing flue as far as possible,i the cut a length of pipe to reach the height of the stove rear opening using a bend carefully positioned to line up with stove outlet.I then would build around the pipe coming out through the wall making certain it was correctly positioned.

When set i would slide the stove into position getting the flange on the rear outlet to go over the pipe and that was it,if the stove was outside the wall of the chimney i worked a bit of fire cement (not fireclay) into the joint,if it was inside the line of the fireplace or wall of the chimney breast i would put my hand in through the pipe and try to work a bit of fire cement on the joint though i always found this was not neccssary.

I have fitted many stoves in this manner and they never caused a problem.

6541

Thanks everybody for help so far. I could not get the Fuel Exhaust Diverter System off (Baffle in old terms)
I am going to the shop where it was purchased today for them to show me how.
I will revert after this.

6541

Hi All,
Developments today.

1) I cannot get the Baffle completely off - look at photo. It just will not come off on the fourth back side.
2) I know can see the flexi flu - Look at photo
3) Just for more reference please see another photo of the trees.

Now when I put my hand up the flu I can get my whole forearm up however this narrows to a hole the size off an open hand and stops me progressing my hand up any further.

What do you think ?

GinSoaked

Nothing there to worry about and it does look like you've really cleaned it. Your arrow in the second picture doesn't point to anything that is a problem.

The tree is an issue but it wouldn't have an effect all the time. If its not windy the and the trees are a problem then the stove should still work OK. The trees would make wind currents where you don't want them in certain wind conditions but even then probably not every direction of the wind.

I assume that the picture 2 shows the the flue going out the top of the stove - I may be wrong so please confirm.

Where I think there is a small possibility of a problem is just inside the flue. Also the top of the chimney may not be as clean as the bottom. Do you sweep it yourself? I'm a little worried about the area you say you can't get your hand any further up.

Any chance of a flash photo straight up the flue from inside the stove?

6541

I can confirm that photo 2 showed flue going out the top of the stove.
I always clean the Chimney myself.
Have a look at the attached photos

rachaelf750

If that's an enamel pipe off the top of your stove, it's completely buckeled in on itself due to over firing and needs to be replaced immediately as it's a choke point on your flue.

IrishHusk

I have a Stratford stove. There is an air inlet at the back which is how air gets into stove. As you have it in a tight enclosure with all that brick it may not be getting enough air into it. How do you get access to adjust the air flow

6541

How will I know if its an enamel pipe ?
To get at that I have to rip out a lovely fireplace - so I have to be sure.
BTW thanks everyone.

6541

IrishHusk wrote: »

I have a Stratford stove. There is an air inlet at the back which is how air gets into stove. As you have it in a tight enclosure with all that brick it may not be getting enough air into it. How do you get access to adjust the air flow

There is a dial on the left of the stove that you can control air from 0 through 5.

John mac

6541 wrote: »

I can confirm that photo 2 showed flue going out the top of the stove.
I always clean the Chimney myself.
Have a look at the attached photos

thats you problem there .


my stove had started smoking a in march , to an extent you couldnt light it without the room filling with smoke,
cleaned it out , got a chimney sweep in to clean it . it was only 4 months since it had been cleaned previously,
working fine now.

IrishHusk

6541 wrote:

There is a dial on the left of the stove that you can control air from 0 through 5.

Is the stove burning good. With mine the top vents are half closed to keep glass fairly clean and I start out at 5 reducing to 1-2 when fire up and running. Also I often have to remove cover for the dial and hoover out ashes on both the inside and out side of stove at this location so air can come in from pipe at back and up through holes on bottom of stove.

6541

IrishHusk wrote: »

Is the stove burning good. With mine the top vents are half closed to keep glass fairly clean and I start out at 5 reducing to 1-2 when fire up and running. Also I often have to remove cover for the dial and hoover out ashes on both the inside and out side of stove at this location so air can come in from pipe at back and up through holes on bottom of stove.

The stoves burn really hot - how do you get the dial off the stove ?