Why do people love hating on monuments we inherited from British rule.

Sean.3516

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

riffmongous

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

James Brown

TBF any plaque with Haughey or Dev on it turns my stomach.

Many of these statues are put up by the business community patting themselves on the back or people made them money. Then you have to consider a general public who didn't even have a vote, were likely not consulted on this kind of thing either.

One eyed Jack

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

It’s equally the height of obliviousness to history to argue that people shouldn’t be bothered by having a constant reminder of the shìtty things the British Government at the time were responsible for inflicting upon Irish society.

Granted we haven’t done much better with national monuments ourselves since, the spire being a good example of poor taste and a pointless commemoration of nothing in particular.

Napoleon has gotten caught up in the British military jingoism and people seem to equate him to the likes of Hitler.

It'd take quite a compelling argument to convince me that we'd have been worse off had Napoleon won.

endacl

1. Nelson’s pillar in Dublin wasn’t put up by the British. It was Dublin corporation that erected it.

2. ‘Hating on’. Please don’t use that particular combination of words. Make’s you sound stupid.

^^

Both irrelevant. Carry on.

DesperateDan

endacl wrote: »

2. ‘Hating on’. Please don’t use that particular combination of words. Make’s you sound stupid.

The kids talk like this now Enda

TheBoyConor

Any benefit that might have accrued to ireland owing to the activities of the British and their forces, would very much have been an unintended by-product. And you can also be sure that any positives would have been to the imported anglo Irish settlers and their descendants rather that to the native irish.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Napoleon has gotten caught up in the British military jingoism and people seem to equate him to the likes of Hitler.

It'd take quite a compelling argument to convince me that we'd have been worse off had Napoleon won.

A reformer, with a tremedous intellect. While he had his flaws he was frequently a force for good. His awarding station by merit in the army and civil service rather than wealth and title scared the Brits senseless.

Nelson's Pillar was a very nice looking monument. I think it should be rebuilt with Luke Kelly atop.

theological

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

A slightly controversial point, but I think there's a general reluctance to consider Irish history that isn't republican or nationalist history.

There are a couple of unquestionable sacred cows in that republican history also. For example the legitimacy of the 1916 Easter Rising considering that most Dubliners were opposed to it.

It would be a healthy thing for Ireland if there was more acceptance of the idea that there was a history before independence and that it wasn't exclusively negative. It would be a good step in maturing our considerations of the past.

Harry Palmr

Hating on....:( Do the kids really speak like this now?

buried

Probably because when the came over here in the 16th Century they blew up plenty of things themselves. Look at what the thugs did to some if not all of the most beautiful stone abbeys in Ireland at the time, fantastic stone buildings such as the Abbey in Claregalway, ransacked, looted and burnt. Irish monuments got thrashed here first by them, so don't be selective in your History.

TheBoyConor

A little lesson now on Irish history

1. Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn.
2. St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
3. Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
4. Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
5. Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
6. Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
7. Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
8. Then the brits build canals and railways all over the place, so that it would handy for them to....
9. ...steal all our potatoes resulting in the Great Potato famine when everyone either died or fúcked off to America to become Yanks.
10. The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
11. Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
12. Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
13. The time of the bother.
14. Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
15. D'emergency.
16. TB
17. Emigration when everybody's uncles and brothers went to work on building sites in London and drank themselves to death.
18. Unemployment.
19. D'troubles was when Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams weren't in d'RA
20. Italia 90 and Jackies Army, when we all were fond of english jack because he taught the boys how to play soccer properly. Probably the high point in Irish History.
21. The Celtic Tiger - was when Eddie Hobbs made us all think we were finally better than the English.
22. The recession - was when re realised he was talking shíte and we we still just all culchies.
23. Then the boom came back and no-one would get out of bed for less than €500 a day
24. Now we have covid, and everyone has nothing else to do only lie in bed all day.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

FVP3

If we hadnt got rid of them they would be all a-toppling now. Ireland is clearly ahead of the curve on statue destruction.

FVP3

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A little lesson now on Irish history

Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn chasing a bull around a field in .
St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
Then you had the famine, when the British stole all our potatoes.
The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
The time of the bother.
Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
D'emergency.
TB
Emigration.
Unemployment.
D'troubles.
The celtic tiger.
The recession.
Then the boom came back.
Now we have covid.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

I've read worse.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A little lesson now on Irish history

Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn.
St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
Then the brits build canals and railways all over the place, so that it would handy for them to....
...steal all our potatoes resulting in the Great Potato famine when everyone either died or fúcked off to America
The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
The time of the bother.
Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
D'emergency.
TB
Emigration when everybody's uncles and brothers went to work on building sites in London and drank themselves to death.
Unemployment.
D'troubles.
Jackie's Army.
The celtic tiger.
The recession.
Then the boom came back.
Now we have covid.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

Slight amendment.

Coillte_Bhoy

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

Why from an Irish perspective do you regard these as 'good'? Oh and i think you'll find the Brits had more than just a bit of help in those victories

Pkiernan

riffmongous wrote: »

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

Yes, because France treated all of its colonies so well...

These people offer nothing to the world,why would we want monuments to remember them?


From aughnacloy to basra and back again,the british have left a trail of destruction across the world

Pkiernan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

These people offer nothing to the world,why would we want monuments to remember them?


From aughnacloy to basra and back again,the british have left a trail of destruction across the world

Here we go. Self pity.

o1s1n

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nelson's Pillar was a very nice looking monument. I think it should be rebuilt with Luke Kelly atop.

And you'd still get kids from Sheriff street scaling it to give him some spray paint glasses

Rubberchikken

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Their might came in handy at times of war.
Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

joseywhales

riffmongous wrote: »

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

We would have had Free education instead in fact

Vestiapx

What are the 7 counties of Ulster ?

joseywhales

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Why do the British have the right to decide what is the best way for one to live?

Their might came in handy at times of war.

To enforce their agenda, not to help anybody else

Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

So is that of Stalin

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

It existed for thousands of years before the british empire which existed over a few hundred

Why should we care about Britain?

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Here we go. Self pity.

Not at all mate

I just dont belive anything british is worthy of rememberence nor monuments here

We should take advantage of latest wave of monument removal to remove more of their ignorant stautues etc here,we left.them too much say here post independance


We see the scum of england so called upper class come here every year to participate in hunts,offer nothing to the country,and wreak all around them, (just carrying on their history tbh,they've made a balls of everywhere they went,idk why anyone would want to remember em)

irishguitarlad

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Their might came in handy at times of war.
Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

Ah yes, good old white man's burden.

buried

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

That's some funny $hite man, considering how since the late 70's they've decimated their own countryside outside of London in every single aspect of that area you are talking about.

If you cant look after your own crowd you've f**king zero business thinking you can look after anybody else.

"prosperity to many parts of the world" lol Queen Lizzy sent The EIC over to the continent of India and they destroyed the place.

CtevenSrowder

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s equally the height of obliviousness to history to argue that people shouldn’t be bothered by having a constant reminder of the shìtty things the British Government at the time were responsible for inflicting upon Irish society.

Granted we haven’t done much better with national monuments ourselves since, the spire being a good example of poor taste and a pointless commemoration of nothing in particular.

:pac::pac::pac: spot on.

Tbh, I like the spire. Don't know why though. Big waste of money.

Gregor Samsa

I like the spire. I don't think every monument has to be to something. I like that it just is.

Much better than Smurfit's vanity paddling pool that preceded it.