Cops dream of slaughtering “N****ers” (but policing isn’t racist*)

Overheal

osarusan wrote: »

Fairly obvious that the idea that policing is racist applies to the context not just of the OP, but also to the related existing threads (George Floyd and so on), which is USA.

Still a generalisation though.

Yes, and, that’s part and parcel of initiating a broader discussion. Obviously it’s not so simple as “look here, proof it’s everywhere” but it is predicated on a theme in these recent threads of a widely held viewpoint among users of the forum that policing isn’t systemically racist (something I disagree with based on a preponderance of evidence and historical context), which is not to say that police is not subject to reform or hasn’t been subject to reforms but policing is inherently resistant to change from within, and we have a lot of examples of that, too, especially with regard to police policing the police.

This outrageous piece of news deserved it’s own thread IMHO and police in general needs its own room to discourse aside from the george Floyd protests, Covid-19, citizens arrests gone bad*, etc. - policing is a common theme in all of these threads that seems more than deserving of its own thread more focused on the police themselves and this news piece is a great launch point because it doesn’t involve a civilian or criminal altercation, it was just cops in a squad car letting their masks slip. Suppose I should have added more commentary to my OP and for that I apologize.

*thread was “permanently” locked but Ahmaud Arbery’s killers were all indicted this week for federal charges, including murder, by a grand jury

CtevenSrowder

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

dont see how thats relevant. discuss the case if you like on its merits surely?

personally, i will read the articles before reaching a conclusion.

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

bluefinger

Whats with the obsession with another country's police force? If you really want to get outraged look at Brazil btw.

Rodin

Overheal wrote: »

Wilmington NC yesterday terminated Corporal Jessie Moore and officers Kevin Piner and Brian Gilmor for their involvement in a police dash cam recording that was activated on accident.

Discussing 2 black colleagues:



Denigrating an arrestee based on race:



And just straight up advocation of genocide:



But yeah no I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with police culture definitely no racism there

The conversation as recorded by the camera went on for 46 minutes. The fired officers claim they aren’t racist and it was just ‘stress’ that caused them to say such racist things.

They are private citizens now who still have a right to carry firearms.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/cops-fired-for-discussing-slaughtering-them-f-n-say-they-arent-racists/

So the US is a basket case.
We know this.

punisher5112

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

Please don't take this wrong but let's just say a other minority group done the same would it be the same?
Yes he'll what they said was disgusting and sick but he'll they may well have had a bad day or were following another but not going to act on it, I hope they wouldn't obviously we wouldn't know though.

I would actually like to see these type get help and actually be educated and shown we are all one.
We breathe the same and bleed the same.
Skin colour does not define us it's how we actually act and portray ourselves that is.

I believe in respect, I respect everyone I meet and sleek to on forums.
I also believe if you don't have respect for me or yourself then that's your issue.

y0ssar1an22

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

as i said, i dont like jumping to conclusions before i see something. is that not common sense?
as i said, i'm gonna look at the info and reach my own conclusion.

this is a massive part of the problem. can you not see that? i stated i was gonna read the articles, and you call me out for 'what is there to say'? well forgive me for wanting to see something before i condemn people!

One eyed Jack

Overheal wrote: »

Yes, and, that’s part and parcel of initiating a broader discussion. Obviously it’s not so simple as “look here, proof it’s everywhere” but it is predicated on a theme in these recent threads of a widely held viewpoint among users of the forum that policing isn’t systemically racist (something I disagree with based on a preponderance of evidence and historical context), which is not to say that police is not subject to reform or hasn’t been subject to reforms but policing is inherently resistant to change from within, and we have a lot of examples of that, too, especially with regard to police policing the police.

If you’d said there are racists within the police forces in the US, I’d have agreed with your point. There are. But you implied that police officers in the US are inherently racist, which is nonsense. One example, or even a handful of carefully curated examples pulled from across the Internet doesn’t support your assertion, it only suggests that your confirmation bias is showing.

Rockbeast2

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

Once that's the culture now, to fire these racists/psychos, then the system can work. I won't deny that in the past there has been, and probably still is in places, an element of "He's a great cop in all other aspects...except for the fact he's a bit racist/violent/etc. so we'll turn a blind eye." That has gone on in all police forces around the world.

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

Blue is a uniform, not a race. Nobody is born a police officer. You cannot he fired from being Black (well, Rachel Dolezal...)

Irami Osei-Frampong is employed by University of Georgia. He stated openly that "some white people may have to die for black communities to be made whole in this struggle to advance to freedom." He couldn't see what was controversial about that threat of racially motivated killings. Presumably his views are uncontroversial in US academia.

He wasn't fired. He got a very sympathetic piece in the Guardian where his repugnant views were excused and justified. In 2020 US, you can loudly proclaim your hatred of and wish to visit violence on one group, but not on others.

Honestly, US policing seems to be in a better place than US academia. But the US itself is well advanced on its way to being a third world country so we're talking about relative performance.

Will I Am Not

Overheal wrote: »

Blue is a uniform, not a race. Nobody is born a police officer. You cannot he fired from being Black (well, Rachel Dolezal...)

I never said anything about race or colours.

BarnardsLoop

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Not immediately no

Not at all, no.

but the accusation is never far away. It is sometimes used as an attempt to shame people into silenc, yes. But ultimately one has to have the courage of their convictions to say what they believe or think. Really it just makes for poor discussion though.

Yes, I'm quite familiar of people using euphemisms or, to use the modern term, 'dog-whistles' so that they can claim innocence when challenged. Even when everyone else knows what they really mean because reading subtext is kind of a core part of using language but they're typically too stupid to realise that they can't fool anyone.

That and they don't realise that when you put something on the internet, it's there forever. And people can and do notice patterns of behaviour that paint a very different kind of picture than the person does in any single post.

I'm not laying bait. You said the words so tell us who these racists are. 'People like me'? What does that mean? Do you think I am a racist? You cannot get carded for saying you do or do not since I asked you the question. But surely if I am, you can point us all to posts that shows this.

Now I didn't say you're a racist, did I? And if I did, I'm sure you would've quoted where I did, of course.

No, I'm not calling you that. I just think it's quite obvious what kind of person you are. So obvious that it really doesn't require my spelling it out, goodness no, nothing as... inelegant as that.

Overheal

GarIT wrote: »

So the good police should give up their jobs to avoid being called racist and leave policing to the racists?

Is this a lack of imagination on your part or just a glib excuse to not post constructively?

Simple things like following up on police complaints from the public, often are being ignored. Arrest an off duty cop for speeding and DUI on an interstate full of people and you will find yourself harassed off the force.

But police departments need to buck up. The other week we saw the Shake Shack hoax unfold; I’d say most of he departments who opened their mouths on twitter just followed earlier, unverified and salacious accusations that the officers were “poisoned” by shake shack employees. But nonetheless these departments called it out immediately on the suspicion it was so.

But when there’s national attention on a crooked cop, someone who shouldn’t represent the force on its worst day? Not a peep from the blinding majority, no cacophony of “that’s not who we are” type posts. Silence. In fact you’d sooner see cops walk off the job in “solidarity” which to anyone watching is a ringing endorsement of bad behavior, and speaks to a police culture that is out of sync with society.

CtevenSrowder

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

as i said, i dont like jumping to conclusions before i see something. is that not common sense?
as i said, i'm gonna look at the info and reach my own conclusion.

this is a massive part of the problem. can you not see that? i stated i was gonna read the articles, and you call me out for 'what is there to say'? well forgive me for wanting to see something before i condemn people!

I did read the article. It seems quite clear cut what went on. And I'm not 'calling you out'. You quoted me! Why didn't you read the article before quoting my post?

Overheal

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I never said anything about race or colours.

If I got it wrong do you care to expand on your point so it can be constructively received?

GarIT

Overheal wrote: »

Is this a lack of imagination on your part or just a glib excuse to not post constructively?

Simple things like following up on police complaints from the public, often are being ignored. Arrest an off duty cop for speeding and DUI on an interstate full of people and you will find yourself harassed off the force. I don't have a problem with someone choosing not to put their neck on the line, I do with someone defending racism.

But police departments need to buck up. The other week we saw the Shake Shack hoax unfold; I’d say most of he departments who opened their mouths on twitter just followed earlier, unverified and salacious accusations that the officers were “poisoned” by shake shack employees. But nonetheless these departments called it out immediately on the suspicion it was so.

But when there’s national attention on a crooked cop, someone who shouldn’t represent the force on its worst day? Not a peep from the blinding majority, no cacophony of “that’s not who we are” type posts. Silence. In fact you’d sooner see cops walk off the job in “solidarity” which to anyone watching is a ringing endorsement of bad behavior, and speaks to a police culture that is out of sync with society.

You're moving the goalposts here. The original comment was about you saying cops who don't fight against racism being equally as responsible as racists, now they are ****ty cops defending the racists.

I was willing to have an honest debate with you but given that you rather throw insults than discuss things I'm out. You were already banned from another thread for a very similar comment in the last two days.

One eyed Jack

Overheal wrote: »

In fact you’d sooner see cops walk off the job in “solidarity” which to anyone watching is a ringing endorsement of bad behavior, and speaks to a police culture that is out of sync with society.

Approximately 18,000 law enforcement agencies make up this country ranging from federal, state, and local police with more than 1.1 million people employed.


Law Enforcement in the United States


1.1 million people working in the police forces in the US, and on the basis of a handful of examples, you’re asserting there is an issue of racism within the police forces?

Anyone who would try and argue like that is the person who is out of sync with a society of 330m people.

Del.Monte

Overheal wrote: »

“Won’t someone please think of their privacy to discussing slaughtering the nigg*rs?”

Jesus

You're a Mod why not add US to the title rather than smearing all police. :rolleyes:

Galwayguy35

Looks like the system worked in this case, they were found out saying stuff they shouldn't and were fired.

punisher5112

I find it bizarre anyone kneeling to the BLM crap and especially the police... They are there not to take sides they are there to protect and help....

Yes I'm aware some bad are there and corruption etc so no need to attack .e with that.

punisher5112

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Looks like the system worked in this case, they were found out saying stuff they shouldn't and were fired.

But they didn't say it to anyone, they were advertising it or broadcasting it.
Yes I fully appreciate they were wrong and that shouldn't be said but haven't we all said things at times we shouldn't....

Will I Am Not

Overheal wrote: »

If I got it wrong do you care to expand on your point so it can be constructively received?

Would you define BLM by their looting and destructive element?
Would you define Muslims by their jihadi element?
Would you define Antifa by their indiscriminately violent element?

If you answered no to all 3 then why would you define the US police force by their racist element?

Kivaro

I am so glad to have the OP on the ignore list ....... for obvious reasons.
How does one put his threads on ignore so that one doesn't have to see them on the main thread page?

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

dont see how thats relevant. discuss the case if you like on its merits surely?

personally, i will read the articles before reaching a conclusion.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

as i said, i dont like jumping to conclusions before i see something. is that not common sense?
as i said, i'm gonna look at the info and reach my own conclusion.

this is a massive part of the problem. can you not see that? i stated i was gonna read the articles, and you call me out for 'what is there to say'? well forgive me for wanting to see something before i condemn people!

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I did read the article. It seems quite clear cut what went on. And I'm not 'calling you out'. You quoted me! Why didn't you read the article before quoting my post?

well thank you for affording me the same opportunity.

Overheal

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If you’d said there are racists within the police forces in the US, I’d have agreed with your point. There are. But you implied that police officers in the US are inherently racist, which is nonsense. One example, or even a handful of carefully curated examples pulled from across the Internet doesn’t support your assertion, it only suggests that your confirmation bias is showing.

Not officers in the US, in particular, no. Policing. And yes, it is, particularly in the United States. The first ‘police’ were slave patrols, to keep them from running away etc. as time rolled on emancipation happened but not for prisoners (big exclusion in the 13th for that, and in the Concurrent Sentences thread you have some posters clamoring for prisoners slave labor) which continues to incentivize slave patrol behavior (though frankly during the reconstruction era the preferred form of justice for negroes was simply a lynching), and again slave patrol culture didn’t go away rather it was enshrined during the Jim Crow era, you could arrest a negro for being out after sunset (and that’s just scratching the surface of the era). Along the way policing became good for criminalizing marijuana And other drugs over time to keep hispanics and blacks off the street too. This extended into the modern era with the war on drugs, the tough on crime movement, and certainly wasn’t mitigated by 9/11 or the war on terror.

What I’m getting at here is that against all of the historical context, where in the hell was the era of police renaissance that clearly shows when our policing system underwent a fundamental, top to bottom reformation? I can’t identify it happening, just like you say there are any number of examples that don’t prove a whole, there are a number of pieces of legislation, rules changes etc. that range from individual department, county ordinance, up to federal law or constitutional amendment, but these in sum still do not add up to a whole - that whole being any demonstration that policing is no longer systemically racist.

Sand

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Looks like the system worked in this case, they were found out saying stuff they shouldn't and were fired.

All institutional power in the US is pretty much setup to do this. Look at the Covington kids, the most recent example of that 'Karen' having a mental breakdown as she realised she was going to be persecuted for the rest of her life, and indeed that NASCAR driver who is the new Jessie Smollet.

Nermal

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What's there to say? They were caught being blatantly racist and were fired. Surely that is the system working no?

Indeed. Odd thread. He has made literally thousands of posts advancing the idea that US police are institutionally racist, and then starts a thread because he’s found evidence that actually contradicts that assertion. I’m not sure he knows what he’s at, really.

y0ssar1an22

is there any article not behind a paywall (or an adblocker wall)?

punisher5112

Anyone actually interested in what's really going on have a look at rebel news..... The reporters are brilliant and ask questions I've yet to see any other reporters ask....

They get attacked quite a lot and stuff thrown at them or fluids poured over them.


They have had to hire bodyguards.

GarIT

Nermal wrote: »

Indeed. Odd thread. He has made literally thousands of posts advancing the idea that US police are institutionally racist, and then starts a thread because he’s found evidence that actually contradicts that assertion. I’m not sure he knows what he’s at, really.

And it's mad that they get to break all the rules because they are a mod and nobody gives a ****. They were banned from another thread for pulling the same **** just two days ago.

And apparently it's ok to say n***ers and negro now but only if you're a mod. If anything is institutional or has a toxic culture it's the mods here.

MontgomeryClift

This is another race issue that doesn't need a separate thread, like the one about the female Hollywood director who promised to hire only co-ethnics.

Two threads on that subject were closed, and the same should be done with this one.