Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20 (Mod Notes Post #1)

StringerBell

Is this thing about Ole wanting a left footed centre back stemming solely from that fairly obvious (I thought anyway) joke he had with Ake after the match that time or has he said something about this before?

I know LVG wanted balance, one right and one left footed and all that but can't remember hearing it from Ole

StringerBell

pjohnson wrote: »

I sometimes forget Sancho is actually English :pac:


Was he actually in England long enough to meet the criteria for homegrown or not? I think its like 3 years in England before you turn 20 or something would his schoolboy years in England count towards it when he probably wasnt contracted? Or will he biazarrely miss out due to his age when he moved?

I think he's okay because he was there from 15-18 was he? I'm sure he'd have 3 years at this point?

pjohnson

StringerBell wrote: »

I think he's okay because he was there from 15-18 was he? I'm sure he'd have 3 years at this point?

I dunno how old he was when he left. I assume hes grand but just wondered could it be possible for that anomaly to arise.

adox

StringerBell wrote: »

Is this thing about Ole wanting a left footed centre back stemming solely from that fairly obvious (I thought anyway) joke he had with Ake after the match that time or has he said something about this before?

I know LVG wanted balance, one right and one left footed and all that but can't remember hearing it from Ole

Plus Maguire currently plays on the left of the CBs so would that mean him swapping to the right?

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

Is this thing about Ole wanting a left footed centre back stemming solely from that fairly obvious (I thought anyway) joke he had with Ake after the match that time or has he said something about this before?

I know LVG wanted balance, one right and one left footed and all that but can't remember hearing it from Ole

Well Ole hasn't said anything officially, so you can decide for yourself.

Ole has also not said we are interested in Sancho.

Athletic guys are saying he wants a left footer to be able to play out from left to right comfortably, where as Maguire currently has to turn back on to his right to play that ball.

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

Plus Maguire currently plays on the left of the CBs so would that mean him swapping to the right?

Yes.

bangkok

I wonder who will win our poty award. I would probably give it to Rashford

Cookiemunster

pjohnson wrote: »

I dunno how old he was when he left. I assume hes grand but just wondered could it be possible for that anomaly to arise.

I'm pretty sure Eric Dier is in that situation. His whole underage career was at Sporting, so even though he's English born, he's not seen as homegrown.

Cookiemunster

StringerBell wrote: »

I think he's okay because he was there from 15-18 was he? I'm sure he'd have 3 years at this point?

He spent 2 1/2 years at City and joined Dortmund when he was 17. But he had been at Watford since he was 7, so I assume he's seen as homegrown.

y0ssar1an22

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

i'm not gonna do the maths on that :pac:

ETA: from the age of 16

billyhead

bangkok wrote: »

I wonder who will win our poty award. I would probably give it to Rashford

I would have Martial before Rashford. Rashford wasn't great after the lockdown onwards. Bruno has a good chance though.

bangkok

billyhead wrote: »

I would have Martial before Rashford. Rashford wasn't great after the lockdown onwards. Bruno has a good chance though.

No but he was just coming back from a bad injury. Was very good up until he got injured

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Bruno by a mile for poty... surely.

El Gato De Negocios

MattS1 wrote: »

Bruno by a mile for poty... surely.

Considering his impact and the fact he single handedly brought us to a 3rd place finish its hard to overlook him. Martial has been decent to great but obviously looked better post Bruno. Rashford was very good for the most part in the first half of the season but post injury naturally looked off the pace in the main. AWB would be in with a shout, he has been consistently very good for the season. Matic has been in the main very solid and we look a much more assured team when he plays, such a pity he isnt 4 years younger. Personally Id go

AWB
Bruno
Rashford / Martial

Only reason Id go with AWB is because he was there for the entire season and rarely had an off game. If Bruno had have come in last summer it would likely be him by a country mile.

bangkok

MattS1 wrote: »

Bruno by a mile for poty... surely.

Maybe, depends what the players think, but he only came in Jan so really missed half a season with us

PARlance

StringerBell wrote: »

Is this thing about Ole wanting a left footed centre back stemming solely from that fairly obvious (I thought anyway) joke he had with Ake after the match that time or has he said something about this before?

I know LVG wanted balance, one right and one left footed and all that but can't remember hearing it from Ole

It was said in a joking manner but I don't think it was a joke. Ole doesn't really come out and criticise players too often, if he knew the camera or mic was on him...I don't think he says he's looking for a left footed CB to the world.

I think Maguire at LCB is a big weakness because he is so one footed, especially when we're looking to play out from the back with a keeper that isn't great at it. Maguire's body is so often closed to the play that DDG is often his only ball when under pressure.

A right footer can easily play there but they need to be comfortable with both feet. Maguire isn't, he's incredibly one footed for a modern pro.

Jofspring

Have to give it to Fernandes. I don't think anyone put their hands up for player of the year prior to him coming. McTominay was playing well outside of injury and Fred was also but neither were player of the year form. Martial also had some absolute shockers where he didn't bother his arse and was pretty much non existent in games. Felt he really stepped it up when Bruno came. AWB defensively was excellent but going forward I think he is very poor which rules him out for me.

On Pogba, it's so hard to know what to do with him. He shows these flashes where you get really excited about seeing him play and then the next game comes and he is sloppy and lazy and a complete let down. Since he signed there are probably about 15 games in total where he was outstanding and looked like a top midfielder. For the cost of him that's an awful return.

Us finishing 3rd really shows how poor the league has been outside of Liverpool and Man City.

billyhead

This is well worth a listen. https://unitedhour.transistor.fm/episodes/united-hour-mission-accomplished

Whatsisname

Can’t stop laughing at this. So cruel.

[url]

https://twitter.com/jonessyyyyyy/status/1288211851571060738?s=21[/url]

False Prophet

PARlance wrote: »

It was said in a joking manner but I don't think it was a joke. Ole doesn't really come out and criticise players too often, if he knew the camera or mic was on him...I don't think he says he's looking for a left footed CB to the world.

I think Maguire at LCB is a big weakness because he is so one footed, especially when we're looking to play out from the back with a keeper that isn't great at it. Maguire's body is so often closed to the play that DDG is often his only ball when under pressure.

A right footer can easily play there but they need to be comfortable with both feet. Maguire isn't, he's incredibly one footed for a modern pro.

We need a left footed center back as backup to Maguire in a 2 and to play left cb in a 3. Shaw had to play it but then that leaves us short on the left. Maquire isn't getting moved to right center back , he always plays on the left including for England and one of the key reasons he was bought. And isnt ake is right footed anyway.

Trey13

Long time follower of the thread, first time poster.

Decided I’d chime in with my opinion on recruitment for next season. I think we need another center back, left back, central midfielder, right winger. Could potentially argue for another attacking midfielder.

Center back: I think Lindelof finished the season strongly but he isn’t good enough to kick us in in my opinion.
Left back: I think this is an area to improve, either by finding a first choice left back or a proper left footed depth option. Can’t stand Williams with his inability to use his left food.
Central midfield: I think Rice is a stud and we should be looking at him.
Right wing: Sancho it looks like. I’m happy with our attack if we were to sign him.

PS: what’s the obsession with people wanting Lingard sold? I know he’s not a star but are we going to find someone else as willing to be a 2nd string player and willing to run their socks off when played? He knows and loves the club. I’m happy for him to stay.

GSPfan

Trey13 wrote: »

Long time follower of the thread, first time poster.

Decided I’d chime in with my opinion on recruitment for next season. I think we need another center back, left back, central midfielder, right winger. Could potentially argue for another attacking midfielder.

Center back: I think Lindelof finished the season strongly but he isn’t good enough to kick us in in my opinion.
Left back: I think this is an area to improve, either by finding a first choice left back or a proper left footed depth option. Can’t stand Williams with his inability to use his left food.
Central midfield: I think Rice is a stud and we should be looking at him.
Right wing: Sancho it looks like. I’m happy with our attack if we were to sign him.

PS: what’s the obsession with people wanting Lingard sold? I know he’s not a star but are we going to find someone else as willing to be a 2nd string player and willing to run their socks off when played? He knows and loves the club. I’m happy for him to stay.

Honestly I see no need for a left back. I think Jose poisoned peoples minds on Luke Shaw. Shaw is bordering on being great for us at left back. He was our player of the year last year.

Williams is a youngfella who has done brilliantly so far. Way too harsh to be criticising him unless you think he’s better moved over to be RB and we need to buy a natural left footer to compete with Shaw?

Regarding Lingard: He’s shít. Has been shít for close to 2 years after hitting his only purple patch of his career. If running your socks off alone won you league titles then that’d be great. It doesn’t. You either sell him now when his value is worth something or you have to give him a new contract which means we’ll own him for the rest of his career.

Trey13

GSPfan wrote: »

Honestly I see no need for a left back. I think Jose poisoned peoples minds on Luke Shaw. Shaw is bordering on being great for us at left back. He was our player of the year last year.

Williams is a youngfella who has done brilliantly so far. Way too harsh to be criticising him unless you think he’s better moved over to be RB and we need to buy a natural left footer to compete with Shaw?

Regarding Lingard: He’s shít. Has been shít for close to 2 years after hitting his only purple patch of his career. If running your socks off alone won you league titles then that’d be great. It doesn’t. You either sell him now when his value is worth something or you have to give him a new contract which means we’ll own him for the rest of his career.

Yeah I’d rather Williams develop into a right back. There’s very few teams in the last 10 years that have had a right footed player excel at left back. Lahm the obvious example, he was good enough to play left back. I think a right footer cuts off angles and can’t quite get to the end line and threaten like a left footer. I’m happy enough with Shaw, and we could look at someone to play 2nd string. But I’d also say if there was a genuine first choice left back on the market, I wouldn’t be mad if we took a shot.

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

Honestly I see no need for a left back. I think Jose poisoned peoples minds on Luke Shaw. Shaw is bordering on being great for us at left back. He was our player of the year last year.

Williams is a youngfella who has done brilliantly so far. Way too harsh to be criticising him unless you think he’s better moved over to be RB and we need to buy a natural left footer to compete with Shaw?

Regarding Lingard: He’s shít. Has been shít for close to 2 years after hitting his only purple patch of his career. If running your socks off alone won you league titles then that’d be great. It doesn’t. You either sell him now when his value is worth something or you have to give him a new contract which means we’ll own him for the rest of his career.

People thinking Shaw can be improved probably has little to do with jose

We signed AWB last year so he ain't going anywhere but we could certainly do with a little more creativity in the FB spots.

Now it's not as urgent as the rw position but if we want to start progressing further we. Need to start looking at first team places that can be improved

It's actually a good thing If we sort out the first 11 this summer, that fans are looking for players to improve the first team and squad

It honestly feels like a decade or more since it's been a proper discussion and that's even with us still needing a rw and dm for instant upgrades

kowloonkev

I think we should step back a bit from Sancho. Dortmund are trying to do to us what Bayern have done in the past but they're not Bayern. A deadline and an outrageous valuation. He has a decent record in a league very different to the PL and easier to play in for an attacker. His record in Europe is not so impressive. His attitude is questionable. Is he better than what we have already? There is some doubt about that for me. Do we need to buy him more than Dortmund need to sell? I don't think so. He obviously wants to leave. I think we should make a take it or leave it offer of around 80m and stick to it, with our own deadline of max 7 days.

pjohnson

I'd forgotten Sarr. With Watford gone down he should be available for a fraction of Sancho's cost while still being a very good player. I'm 80% sure he was right sided aswell?

PARlance

False Prophet wrote: »

We need a left footed center back as backup to Maguire in a 2 and to play left cb in a 3. Shaw had to play it but then that leaves us short on the left. Maquire isn't getting moved to right center back , he always plays on the left including for England and one of the key reasons he was bought. And isnt ake is right footed anyway.

Ake is left footed. He's also Dutch so he can use both feet.

Maguire is right footed, very right footed and isn't comfortable on his left for a top level player imo, and gets targeted at the highest levels for this. The "better" CB of two right footed CBs generally plays on the left, just because Maguire has played there doesn't mean that can't or shouldn't be changed imo.

Maguire has been a great addition, I think we would be even stronger with him on the right side myself.

GSPfan

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think we should step back a bit from Sancho. Dortmund are trying to do to us what Bayern have done in the past but they're not Bayern. A deadline and an outrageous valuation. He has a decent record in a league very different to the PL and easier to play in for an attacker. His record in Europe is not so impressive. His attitude is questionable. Is he better than what we have already? There is some doubt about that for me. Do we need to buy him more than Dortmund need to sell? I don't think so. He obviously wants to leave. I think we should make a take it or leave it offer of around 80m and stick to it, with our own deadline of max 7 days.

I hope United don’t do all of that.

GSPfan

Trey13 wrote: »

Yeah I’d rather Williams develop into a right back. There’s very few teams in the last 10 years that have had a right footed player excel at left back. Lahm the obvious example, he was good enough to play left back. I think a right footer cuts off angles and can’t quite get to the end line and threaten like a left footer. I’m happy enough with Shaw, and we could look at someone to play 2nd string. But I’d also say if there was a genuine first choice left back on the market, I wouldn’t be mad if we took a shot.

I see what you mean. I don’t disagree with you, I even think Ole has played Williams on the right a few times already in place of AWB to start that transition.

For me I try to base all my transfer speculation on the following. I consider priorities, finances, and likelihood. I don’t think it’s a priority, I don’t think our finances are great, and I think the likelihood of finding a left back of significant quality willing to come in and sit on the bench is remote.

But yeah I think it might be a longer term concern. I just think we can afford to wait and see. Shaw is doing well and Williams is providing good cover.

pjohnson

Tbf is it not the case that Williams WAS a right back until Laird secured the RB slot so Williams switched over?

Backstreet Moyes

Brooks, Docoure, Sarr, Bemrahma, Cantwell, Buenedia

You could probably get 3 of those for the 80 million talked about for Grealish and any money from sales of outgoing players all who would improve the quality of the squad

Cookiemunster

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think we should step back a bit from Sancho. Dortmund are trying to do to us what Bayern have done in the past but they're not Bayern. A deadline and an outrageous valuation. He has a decent record in a league very different to the PL and easier to play in for an attacker. His record in Europe is not so impressive. His attitude is questionable. Is he better than what we have already? There is some doubt about that for me. Do we need to buy him more than Dortmund need to sell? I don't think so. He obviously wants to leave. I think we should make a take it or leave it offer of around 80m and stick to it, with our own deadline of max 7 days.

The thing is Dortmund don't NEED to sell and would prefer to keep him for another season. They're currently very comfortable financially. So if they are to sell him, they'll hold out for the maximum they can get.

As to is he better than what we already have? Dan James. Honest player, but not on the same planet as Sancho (and not good enough to be starting for Utd). Or playing Greenwood out of position. So yes, he is better than what we have. And, for me, 2 goals and 2 assists in 8 CL games is a pretty good return for a winger.

StringerBell

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf is it not the case that Williams WAS a right back until Laird secured the RB slot so Williams switched over?

Yep Laird seen as the better prospect at right back so Williams was moved. Little bit of Phil Neville about him.

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf is it not the case that Williams WAS a right back until Laird secured the RB slot so Williams switched over?

Yep. Apparently. Not sure if Laird displaced Williams cause he was better than him or if Williams versatility and competence in the LB position made it easier to play both.

StringerBell

I'd probably happily take Sarr alright, good option either way. Sancho can play left or right so would get game time too. Unlikely of course.

GSPfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is Dortmund don't NEED to sell and would prefer to keep him for another season.

I don’t think that is true. Dortmund have a lot of money because they sell players at their peak value. They are a selling club and are proud of it. Whether they need to sell is not really relevant For me, they want to sell.

Sancho is now at his peak value. Contract is closer to the end next season and if he throws a strop and has an average season his value isn’t going up.

Cookiemunster

GSPfan wrote: »

I don’t think that is true. Dortmund have a lot of money because they sell players at their peak value. They are a selling club and are proud of it. Whether they need to sell is not really relevant For me, they want to sell.

Sancho is now at his peak value. Contract is closer to the end next season and if he throws a strop and has an average season his value isn’t going up.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't 100% agree in this situation. They have a price that the want for him, but Utd are the only bidders in a depressed market, so that price won't be achievable. Next summer that will be different. There's nothing to stop them from agreeing a contract extension with Sancho with the agreement that they'll let him go next summer.

PatrickSmithUS

Nuts102 wrote: »

Brooks, Docoure, Sarr, Bemrahma, Cantwell, Buenedia

You could probably get 3 of those for the 80 million talked about for Grealish and any money from sales of outgoing players all who would improve the quality of the squad

Do you, realistically, see any one of them being a Champions League winner?


That has to be the aim. When Klopp was recruiting he was able to identify top talent at mid table clubs and those not challenging for titles like Van Dijk and Robertson, Mane even Wijnaldum. Along with this he identified those with something to prove like Salah, Fabinho and Oxlade Chamberlain.



These players were used to replace the likes of Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Allen, Sturridge and Mignolet - all mid level talent with a low ceiling in relation to what they could offer.



United are already trying to get rid of some dross mid level talent like Jones, Lingard, Smalling and will have to make a decision on Shaw, James and Dalot in the next season or two. There's no point in signing someone unless the scouts are recommending them and just looking to capitalise on a club getting relegated just puts more pot shots on the wage bill.


The coming crop of academy players looks to be the best in years. Ideally I'd like to see a starting XI in the Europe League as follows, the aim being giving prospects games time:



Pereira/Romero (if they intend on keeping him),

Williams, Tuanzebe, Dalot, Mengi,

Fred
Garner, McTominay (C)
Greenwood, Ighalo, James/Chong.

Lord TSC

Stone saying King, Ake and Wilson all set to leave Bournemouth. Already being linked with King again, after the breakdown of the move in January.

StringerBell

What happened to the font there? Why the change? Andy Robertson played for Hull. Hull were not a mid table side, Hull were relegated (they had only been promoted year before, so yes, he was playing in the Championship that year before they were relegated) and Klopp signed him, which sort of negates your own point?

Also, Fabinhp had nothing to prove

Father Hernandez

StringerBell wrote: »

What happened to the font there? Why the change? Andy Robertson played for Hull. Hull were not a mid table side, Hull were relegated (they had only been promoted year before, so yes, he was playing in the Championship that year before they were relegated) and Klopp signed him, which sort of negates your own point?

Also, Fabinhp had nothing to prove

Plus Wijnaldum. He was Newcastle's best player when they got relegated then signed for Liverpool.

yourdeadwright

StringerBell wrote: »

What happened to the font there? Why the change? Andy Robertson played for Hull. Hull were not a mid table side, Hull were relegated (they had only been promoted year before, so yes, he was playing in the Championship that year before they were relegated) and Klopp signed him, which sort of negates your own point?

Also, Fabinhp had nothing to prove

Robertson , Gini and Shaq all signed when relegated by Klopp ,

Of curse guys can be relegated and go on to be great players,

PatrickSmithUS

StringerBell wrote: »

What happened to the font there? Why the change? Andy Robertson played for Hull. Hull were not a mid table side, Hull were relegated (they had only been promoted year before, so yes, he was playing in the Championship that year before they were relegated) and Klopp signed him, which sort of negates your own point?

Also, Fabinhp had nothing to prove

NO I'll give you Robertson but the, more general point, I was making is that Brooks, Docoure, Sarr, Bemrahma, Cantwell, Buenedia haven't offered anything to suggest that they are better than what is already on the United squad.



Robertson replaced Moreno remember so they were able to take the chance. If you bring in Sarr or Buendia who are they going to replace?

yourdeadwright

Has Greenwood changed anything in regards the urgency to sign Sancho ?
Would United be better off spending big on a CB and CM first,

I know in a perfect world all 3 would be great but I know there is plenty of games for all the forwards to get game time,

I just mean in terms of priority do you lads still think RW is no1 ?

Mitch Connor

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

If you bring in Sarr or Buendia who are they going to replace?

Lingard or Pereira.

Much better players off the bench.

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Has Greenwood changed anything in regards the urgency to sign Sancho ?
Would United be better off spending big on a CB and CM first,

I know in a perfect world all 3 would be great but I know there is plenty of games for all the forwards to get game time,

I just mean in terms of priority do you lads still think RW is no1 ?

No, Greenwood is not a winger.

Games we are dominating and creating pressure around the box show the limitations of Greenwood out there.

PatrickSmithUS

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Lingard or Pereira.

Much better players off the bench.

But these are not starters and that is my point exactly. Academy players are there are cost zilch.


How would you convince Sarr to come in and not play when he could sign for a club like Everton and play every game.?

Mitch Connor

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

But these are not starters and that is my point exactly. Academy players are there are cost zilch.


How would you convince Sarr to come in and not play when he could sign for a club like Everton and play every game.?

By that logic clubs would have 11 starters and then academy prospects.

Why would he not want to play an important role in PL and CL?

PatrickSmithUS

Mitch Connor wrote: »

By that logic clubs would have 11 starters and then academy prospects.

Why would he not want to play an important role in PL and CL?

Wages for a start, he's on €25,000 with Watford currently and would probably comment 3/4 times that with a move to a Europe League club. United aren't going to be paying €100k to a sub.


Lingard and Perriera didn't play much of a role in either of those competitions this season.