Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20 (Mod Notes Post #1)

bangkok

Julez wrote: »

Is this line being used as a stick to beat him with? If the situation is true, you'd be saying anything you can to try and get the whole thing resolved. Surely the drugging this can be easily proved?

no one said she was drugged.. could have been water for all we know

one thing i will say is there was lots of drunk people involved, there was a fight and he along with others got arrested.

wont be the first time it has happened in Mkyonas and wont be the last

adox

Whatever did happen its an utter embarrassment for the player and the club.

DM_7

Drumpot wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12056223/louis-van-gaal-i-wanted-neymar-sadio-mane-and-ngolo-kante-at-man-utd

LVG

“For the defence, I wanted Sergio Ramos and Mats Hummels, because ours wasn't the strongest in building from the back. Those were my top targets, but we couldn't get any of them. I don't know why, because as the manager I wasn't involved in any negotiations.

"After I left, players like Mahrez and Kanté ended up at Manchester City and Chelsea, while United couldn't get them. I found that very odd."

“I inherited an old team that hadn't been refreshed for some time, and wanted to rejuvenate the squad with players who would bring the same kind of quality," Van Gaal added. "But to get the ones I wanted proved very difficult.

"I met with them [United's hierarchy] in Brussels - clubs often organise talks in foreign cities so the media can't track them down easily. The Glazers and Ed Woodward were there - they asked me about everything, including my vision and how I would want to organise things, and said they would meet my needs for new players.

It surprised me, even though I understand that clubs hold out for the highest fee because they know United are the richest in the world. At the same time, though, if you are the richest, you'd expect to get what you want.

"But it didn't happen: we only got third, fourth or fifth-choice players."

I don’t think anybody will be surprised by these revelations. I wonder if managers like LVG and Jose were promised a lot more (money is no object) before joining and then found it frustrating when the truth of the situation became apparent. In effect Managers are human shields for the lack of ambition of the owners.

He also wanted Neymar, Lewandowski, Muller, Higuain.

https://twitter.com/FourFourTwo/status/1298153714163896320?s=20

Lots of good names in there of course, many who were obviously not attainable.

Interesting that he presented Mahrez and Kante as options, they won the league the season he got sacked but I doubt he was asking for them in 14/15 upon arrival or in the summer before the 15/16 season (Kante joined Leicester in 15/16 and Mahrez also had his break out season that season going from a 4 goal to 17 goal season).

I doubt he says much about the players he did get like Di Maria or Memphis. How Bastian got on.

He has a point about United not getting things done but the whole list just shows how important it is for a well run club to not rely only on the 'coach' for selecting players. Especially when the coach is full of big ideas and needs the structure of a well set up club to 'filter' his ideas!

adox

Van Gaal made a mess of the squad management and left us with a squad worse than what we have now. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

Hes had a lot to say since leaving the club but in my eyes he did he most damage to the club of all the managers post Fergie.

Quandary

adox wrote: »

Van Gaal made a mess of the squad management and left us with a squad worse than what we have now. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

Hes had a lot to say since leaving the club but in my eyes he did he most damage to the club of all the managers post Fergie.

Definitely.

And after seeing how badly the recruitment was handled during LVGs tenure, the sensible thing to do would have been to hire the best DOF money could buy and entrust him with the task of a proper rebuild with the clubs ethos and focus in mind.

Ed wouldn't have liked that though. He wants to tinker and play with his toy, and because he pimps the club out so effectively, making eye-watering cash in the process, the glazers are happy to let him do as he pleases.

bangkok

for such an experienced manager, van Gaal made a total mess of our squad. I remember we played liverpool away and Rio Ferdinand named 11 players he sold who were probably better than he had in the squad that day. still counting the costs of the mess he made to this day

Liam O

Mahrez not being signed was outrageous. United's weakest position, proven to be an extremely effective player in the league and a reasonable fee.

Though this was after LVG left more than anything.

Weepsie

bangkok wrote: »

for such an experienced manager, van Gaal made a total mess of our squad. I remember we played liverpool away and Rio Ferdinand named 11 players he sold who were probably better than he had in the squad that day. still counting the costs of the mess he made to this day

He got rid of a lot of nothing players , and Crocks. So many of them were constantly injured. Van persie had gone back to being broken every couple games, Nani was constantly injured, Anderson was living in the memory of 2 good games. Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand were all past it. Buttner was always rubbish. Do Maria was not interested.

Kagawa, Hernandez, Evans and Rafael were probably hard done by though. Welbeck too, he'd have offered more than Falcao.


The squad he had was mostly aging or crocked. He was tasked with doing something that's takes 5-10 years inside 3 and then only giving 2.

You hire a coach like van gaal and you buy into his methods 100%, the club didn't and it was doomed to failure as a result

DM_7

Weepsie wrote: »

He got rid of a lot of nothing players , and Crocks. So many of them were constantly injured. Van persie had gone back to being broken every couple games, Nani was constantly injured, Anderson was living in the memory of 2 good games. Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand were all past it. Buttner was always rubbish. Do Maria was not interested.

Kagawa, Hernandez, Evans and Rafael were probably hard done by though. Welbeck too, he'd have offered more than Falcao.


The squad he had was mostly aging or crocked. He was tasked with doing something that's takes 5-10 years inside 3 and then only giving 2.

You hire a coach like van gaal and you buy into his methods 100%, the club didn't and it was doomed to failure as a result

I agree he had to make a lot of changes. The problem with that remains it was his focus rather than a club focus that led to changes. Some players he moved on probably suited Jose while ones he brought in or focused on did not.

That is neither coaches fault but one of the great examples of why United are a poorly run football club.

Lord TSC

No manager has been backed as much as LVG was. He was given free reign to get rid of whoever he want, and got a lot of players in.

But the football was dire, results reflected that, and he was quite vocal about how United fans needed to accept battling for top four was an acceptable level for him.

Trust is earned, and he never earned it.

Woodward was a problem, as usual. It’s not that all the blame is on LVG for his tenure. But he does deserve a hefty amount of blame there.

Zeek12

DM_7 wrote: »

He also wanted Neymar, Lewandowski, Muller, Higuain.

https://twitter.com/FourFourTwo/status/1298153714163896320?s=20

Lots of good names in there of course, many who were obviously not attainable.

Interesting that he presented Mahrez and Kante as options, they won the league the season he got sacked but I doubt he was asking for them in 14/15 upon arrival or in the summer before the 15/16 season (Kante joined Leicester in 15/16 and Mahrez also had his break out season that season going from a 4 goal to 17 goal season).

I doubt he says much about the players he did get like Di Maria or Memphis. How Bastian got on.

He has a point about United not getting things done but the whole list just shows how important it is for a well run club to not rely only on the 'coach' for selecting players. Especially when the coach is full of big ideas and needs the structure of a well set up club to 'filter' his ideas!

Completely agree on your Kante/Mahrez point.

As for Lewandowski, Sergio Ramos & Neymar? Just not attainable.
Whinging that he didn't get them doesn't bear further discussion really.

On Mane, I do have some sympathy. I remember a lot of speculation LVG wanted him around 2015.
And what a player we missed out on there!

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1298243757075308544?s=20

Huge moment for Greenwood and thoroughly well deserved. Interesting to see how he gets on.

Dean Henderson in the squad too and deservedly so.

bangkok

Weepsie wrote: »

He got rid of a lot of nothing players , and Crocks. So many of them were constantly injured. Van persie had gone back to being broken every couple games, Nani was constantly injured, Anderson was living in the memory of 2 good games. Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand were all past it. Buttner was always rubbish. Do Maria was not interested.

Kagawa, Hernandez, Evans and Rafael were probably hard done by though. Welbeck too, he'd have offered more than Falcao.


The squad he had was mostly aging or crocked. He was tasked with doing something that's takes 5-10 years inside 3 and then only giving 2.

You hire a coach like van gaal and you buy into his methods 100%, the club didn't and it was doomed to failure as a result

thats half of a team he still sold that he never should have.

Evra went to Juventus and was still brilliant for another 2 years, even got to champions league final with juve the next season,

He sold Zaha who could have been given a chance, he signed Rojo and many had said at the time he was never good enough, we are still stuck with him now

he sold Nani when he should never have been sold, he would probably still do a job for us on the right

for a manager as experienced as him, he made a mess of the squad

The_Kew_Tour

Weepsie wrote: »

Welbeck too, he'd have offered more than Falcao.

He got a good innings to impress at United. They're a reason he is only a bit player at Watford now

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He got a good innings to impress at United. They're a reason he is only a bit player at Watford now

he had a couple of career ending injuries. should never have been sold when he was from united

sky88

except for evans i agreed with who LVG cleared out of the squad they were players who needed to go but the problem was he replaced with players who didnt work out or were of equal averagness

DM_7

I think LVG arrived with a specific instruction and need to gut the squad and renew it. It did not work in the end but I don't think he was wrong to move on the players he let go for what he was working towards.

I genuinely think he needed more structure around him to filter his ideas and help him get what he wanted. He was desperate for a top class striker and never got one, we have seen time and time again how a great striker can buy time for a manager and also push a team forward. That did undermine his plans to a certain degree as they were based on having a great player up front.

In all the time that has passed since SAF left only one player had left United who I wish they had more faith in and that is Memphis.

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

No manager has been backed as much as LVG was. He was given free reign to get rid of whoever he want, and got a lot of players in.

But the football was dire, results reflected that, and he was quite vocal about how United fans needed to accept battling for top four was an acceptable level for him.

Trust is earned, and he never earned it.

Woodward was a problem, as usual. It’s not that all the blame is on LVG for his tenure. But he does deserve a hefty amount of blame there.

Clearly trust has nothing to do with it, getting 2nd didn’t seem to be earn Jose anything other then a sh*t transfer window. I think some of you are still thinking some manager is going to come in with some Magic wand and make United tick.

It is fundamentally incorrect to assume that LVG did more damage to the club then even not backing Jose did.. A manager manages the squad they are given or the club provides. If a club has no functioning recruitment structure or strategy , you can’t blame a manager for the state of the squad. The mismanagement of our squad continued after LVG left so it’s naieve to put the majority of the blame on him. Not just that , players like Herrera and Shaw were actually identified during Moyes time, they at least had nothing to do with LVG.

If a club identifies top targets and are constantly getting 3rd, 4th etc, it’s not the managers fault. The squad will reflect that. But even at that, some of you think putting down LVG is more relevant then looking at what he says and if any of it matches up with other managers recruitment or what they say. Fellaini and Mata were not Moyes top targets and Jose eluded to similar sentiments about the club.

There is so many contradictions in the “blaming of managers” For the Uniteds ongoing issues. A poorly run club is harder to fix then a bad manager at a well run club. Most top clubs can bounce back quickly with a poor manager, we don’t bounce back, we fumble on and some of you are happy for the manager to take the blame and focus on a Poch as if that’s going to somehow work out.

dave_o_brien

My take on it is that unless we have a fundamental change in ownership, we'll never truly compete year-on-year at the top level that we, as fans, expect. We'll have good years and... less good years, but here's my take:

The standards are set by the ownership. Replacing the manager for poor results without changing the ownership will inevitably only result in short term variation. So long as the standards being set are the same, they will be the norm over time.

This idea is expressed much better by Robert M. Pirsig than I'm capable:

"...to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to avoid repair of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is possible."

That said, the football style is linked to the manager. I like the football we play with Ole more than anyone else since Fergie.

Lord TSC

[Desportes Cuatro] - Man United have started an approach to sign Lionel Messi.

Liam O

DM_7 wrote: »

I think LVG arrived with a specific instruction and need to gut the squad and renew it. It did not work in the end but I don't think he was wrong to move on the players he let go for what he was working towards.

I genuinely think he needed more structure around him to filter his ideas and help him get what he wanted. He was desperate for a top class striker and never got one, we have seen time and time again how a great striker can buy time for a manager and also push a team forward. That did undermine his plans to a certain degree as they were based on having a great player up front.

In all the time that has passed since SAF left only one player had left United who I wish they had more faith in and that is Memphis.

I don't agree. He was brought in and players who had been dire the year before and Moyes would have likely jettisoned were given a stay of execution while ones who had gained his trust throughout the season were jettisoned.

Most of it seemed to be based on that game against MK Dons. The fact he made these decisions based on one game rather than a season of evidence as to who was and wasn't up to it shows the short termism plaguing both the club and himself at that time.

Look at Fellaini. Where would United have been without him in LVG's first season? Made game changing impacts on multiple occasions. He tried to get rid of him when he joined.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

[Desportes Cuatro] - Man United have started an approach to sign Lionel Messi.

he could have been signed for free before june, imo there is ZERO chance of him leaving barcelona now this summer

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

[Desportes Cuatro] - Man United have started an approach to sign Lionel Messi.

I assume this is some 15 year old german that just happens to have the same name as the Argentinian version.

Whatsisname

Maguire's missus on the incident.

https://twitter.com/_fernhawkins/status/1298225215491710977?s=20

el Fenomeno

In the absence of a decent, logical and forward thinking transfer window, and with no prospect of the Glazers or Ed leaving anytime soon, of course I'll get on board the idea of us signing Messi and dooming our wage structure even worse than Sanchez.

Have to have something to look forward to next year.

The_Kew_Tour

I would be thrilled if we had signed Jeff Hendrick on free at this stage:P

KH25

Lord TSC wrote: »

[Desportes Cuatro] - Man United have started an approach to sign Lionel Messi.

This gave me a good laugh. Couldn’t see it happen at all. Surely Pep would want him if he was available and surely Messi would want to play for him again rather than Ole.

PARlance

I'm not going to panic until we're linked to Longstaff again.

Lord TSC

PARlance wrote: »

I'm not going to panic until we're linked to Longstaff again.

The lad who signed a new contract a few days ago?

KH25

Lord TSC wrote: »

The lad who signed a new contract a few days ago?

There’s 2 of them, we’ll just sign the other one!

billyhead

Messi signing for us is gas. The rubbish that comes out in the press. If we weren't in for Sancho wouldn't the club leak something like they have done previously to say no deal is happening or the likes. What would the point be in keeping fans engaged with the potential signing and would it not make sense for the club to say he costs too much so that other clubs would know we have limited funds and won't be taken advantage off in other deals. Perhaps im talking rubbish ðŸ˜.

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

I don't agree. He was brought in and players who had been dire the year before and Moyes would have likely jettisoned were given a stay of execution while ones who had gained his trust throughout the season were jettisoned.

Most of it seemed to be based on that game against MK Dons. The fact he made these decisions based on one game rather than a season of evidence as to who was and wasn't up to it shows the short termism plaguing both the club and himself at that time.

Look at Fellaini. Where would United have been without him in LVG's first season? Made game changing impacts on multiple occasions. He tried to get rid of him when he joined.

Maybe we do agree, I think he was asked to move people on, just not presented with a plan by anyone on who should move on. As you say it was very much left up to LVG to sort out who should go.

No single coach arriving should have that much to sort out and start from scratch making quick, uninformed decisions.

Richard Hillman

KH25 wrote: »

This gave me a good laugh. Couldn’t see it happen at all. Surely Pep would want him if he was available and surely Messi would want to play for him again rather than Ole.

Im not sure Guardiola would want him anymore. If he is giving out about Agueros supposed lack of pressing, I'm not sure what he will do with Sketchers himself. Guardiola was always quick to drop Aguero for Jesus, even though he was scoring goals.

Messi isnt the player he was when Guardiola left Barcelona. He's still very productive but it's a lot of work for the rest of the team when you are defending with 10 players all of the time.

Lord TSC

Whoever signs Messi will be doing it because he's Messi. Not necessarily because he fits their philosophy, etc. He'll be a marquee signing.

I think he ends up at City or Inter though. I'd love him and we have the spot on RW, but I just don't think he'd be interested.

Still....

PARlance

KH25 wrote: »

There’s 2 of them, we’ll just sign the other one!

50m for either, get it done Ed.

pjohnson

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would be thrilled if we had signed Jeff Hendrick on free at this stage:P

We left that too long of course. He joined Newcastle 24 hours ago

You'd imagine Messi. Would go the Ronaldo. Route join a club who walks the league each year he can be the big dog at and still have a **** at champions league.

Although I guess he doesn't even have that option with neymar at psg and Ronaldo at juve. Can't see bayern taking on his wages

Honestly I hope Juve sign him some how I would deffo want to watch the 2 play together each week.

City the only other club who could afford him, maybe roman just goes wild either

Cookiemunster

Lord TSC wrote: »

Whoever signs Messi will be doing it because he's Messi. Not necessarily because he fits their philosophy, etc. He'll be a marquee signing.

I think he ends up at City or Inter though. I'd love him and we have the spot on RW, but I just don't think he'd be interested.

Still....

I'd put my house on him being at Barca at least until the end of his contract next season and probably till he finishes playing.

StringerBell

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He got a good innings to impress at United. They're a reason he is only a bit player at Watford now

Yes, and in all fairness were we complaining when Falcao was announced? Evra is another one, he was done at united for at least 18 months if not more before he was moved on. Kagawa didn't work out and that broke my heart. Evans, meh, wouldn't have pushed him out but he had been given his chance and hadn't stepped up enough. Good squad player.

I don't disagree with a lot of what LVG says, and the likes of Basti would surely have been a third or fourth choice in a position like he alluded to.

Liam O

Ronaldo on the left in the Rashford role from this season and Messi on the right in the Greenwood role from this season.

Attack sorted.

Lord TSC

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo on the left in the Rashford role from this season and Messi on the right in the Greenwood role from this season.

Attack sorted.

Ibrahimovic is possibly available too.

Just sayin :P

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

[Desportes Cuatro] - Man United have started an approach to sign Lionel Messi.

Could he do it on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke?

loyatemu

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ibrahimovic is possibly available too.

Just sayin :P

Ronaldinho is out of prison too.

bangkok

harry maguire and the others found quilty

bennyl10

Maguire Guilty of bribery resisting arrest and assault

RobertKK

Harry Maguire is a right idiot, he seemed to have notions about himself as if he was above the law.

skinny90

what happens now?

RobertKK

Meanwhile Lindelof was helping a woman in her 90s who was being robbed, the contrast between the two United defenders.

y0ssar1an22

its been removed from the sky home page gold banner. dont know what that means

ETA: NM, its back

paulbok

skinny90 wrote: »

what happens now?

Woodward is preparing a bid for his defence.