The National Party

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139640#Comment_122139640

I mentioned it to draw attention to the tirade of angry posts I've had to reply to for the crime of wrong think, not to deflect from anything.

Anyway, all the best and congratulations again.

nachouser

Anyway. How is this thread still not about the actual Nazis affiliated with the National Party?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139626#Comment_122139626

Ideologically.

But in modern socialism it is viewed now as the extreme.

You know this .

The fact that some so called socialist regimes became Communust dictatorships in the 20th century was because of the urban rural divide and lack of education and true social empowerment of the ordinary people who were subjugated by their political ,leaders in the same way they had been by the monarchists before that .

.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139641#Comment_122139641

Third Reich, that's what all the people say, I took Poland in April, then France in May....

https://youtu.be/kP-0_SBy_dc?si=GlYgkngJsNu9YaJQ

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139645#Comment_122139645

So the urban rural divide explains the mass murder in the Soviet Union, Maoist China, the Khmer Rogue in Cambodia and on and on? Please.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139633#Comment_122139633

Ha think I thanked that myself ;)

Why do you not think that they are dangerous though ?

I know these guys are eejits but they are influencing a lot of undiscerning people who think they have the answers , on social media.

It is a creeping disease.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139651#Comment_122139651

No . It explains the disconnect between the people and the policy makers which allowed dictatorships to flourish .

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139656#Comment_122139656

If anything is giving them support it's the mess made of the IPA situation, which was encouraged by well meaning left wing politicians, which is ironic as the likes of the NP had virtually no support previously.

I trust people to not vote for these idiots, although I'd be more worried about them now than a year ago thanks mostly to the asylum debacle.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139644#Comment_122139644

What Nazi's ? Thought Barrett was booted out?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139681#Comment_122139681

Barret's departure from the party means nothing in itself, if the party doesn't repudiate the Nazi-influenced policies and positions that are Barret's legacy. A personality clash between Nazis doesn't mean that anyone involved in the clash ceases to be a Nazi.

So we'd be looking for evidence of a sharp change of course for the NP. I'm not seeing it. And I see no reason to expect it.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139681#Comment_122139681

I'm inclined to say anyone who knowingly joined a party with a Nazi as a leader is also a Nazi. He's also still running under the NP, as is his wife.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139474#Comment_122139474

Let’s talk about facts. What’s your definition of a social v a liberal democracy. I’m pretty sure of mine, but am happy happy to learn.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139626#Comment_122139626

you like facts: China is neither a socialist nor a communist party. The Chinese communist party is communist the way North Korea is a democratic people’s republic.

China is a capitalist one party state.

The problem is not left v right, like you seem to think it is. Where left and right go wrong is on the authoritarian v anti authoritarian axis.

Every extremist system we both dislike has one thing in common: a strong authoritarian state.

Collie D

This thread got really boring really quickly

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139626#Comment_122139626

The end goal of Karl Marx's vision of socialism. Not all socialism. But you have been told this a hundred times at this stage and continue to insist black is white.

So, I think in the interests of balance on this thread I will claim all conservatives are fascists. And use your gambit that because some conservatives are fascists it proves the argument

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139681#Comment_122139681

Not for his views.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139135#Comment_122139135

The Party of European socialists has member parties from every country in the EU including the Labour party in Ireland. The current leader of the PES is a former Swedish PM. Member parties are currently in government in 9 EU member states. Each and every one of these parties have no problem calling themselves socialist. These include repressive regimes such as Denmark, Germany and Spain and affiliate parties are in power in those dystopian nightmares of Norway and Switzerland. You have a completely blinkered view of what socialism actually is and represents and have been completely hoodwinked by the rhetoric of US rightwing dogma.

An example, Norway's socialist policies has allowed them retain control of their natural resources resulting in the oil revenues from their country being used to benefit the entire country rather than a rich few. And that is why US right wing discourse on socialism focuses on the Pol Pot's and Stalin's. To continue to enable a select few donors benefit from what are an entire countries assets while hoodwinking the masses into believing it is being done for their benefit.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139890#Comment_122139890

Here's a quick definition of Irish democracy from Google..

I'm not really obligated to compare and contrast liberal and social democracy, maybe start with a search of your own online on the social democratic, or nordic model as its also known.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139681#Comment_122139681

He was kicked out over arguments about gold (actual bars of gold the party have in a safe somewhere!).

At no point has there been a disagreement among them regarding ideology or "policy".

So - Yes, every member of the National Party is at best a Nazi sympathiser as are all of their supporters.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139904#Comment_122139904

China is a socialist country. The structures of its governance remains the same since Mao's revolution. The expansion into trade within the capitalist system is based purely on their agenda to become the world's largest superpower, a means to an end.

The lefts need to distance themselves from any negatives related to socialism is peculiar.

We currently have a problem with far right activists in Ireland harassing politicians etc, the water shed moment for that type of behaviour was the Jobstown protests carried out by far left activists who now bemoan the same behaviour carried out by the far right. Go figure.

Shoog

Going to follow Nullzeros logic from now on and call all conservatives fascists. So much simpler than understanding ****.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140073#Comment_122140073

I’ll come later with something a bit better than a screen shot from google.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140088#Comment_122140088

China is not a socialist country, it fits no definition of the word socialist.

I am not distancing myself from something negative, I am stating fact. China abandoned socialism decades ago.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140096#Comment_122140096

Ireland doesn't have as you said, a social democracy. We have a liberal democracy.

That screenshot is evidence of that.

I'm not obligated to provide you with evidence that your assumptions are incorrect, do your own research.

Whatever you come back with later, it crucially will not refute my central point that Ireland has a liberal democracy and not a social democracy because I presented a fact to refute your opinion.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140088#Comment_122140088

The "structures of its governance" are, basically, a one-party state.

There's nothing inherently socialist about a one-party state; there are abundant examples of one-party states that are definitely not socialist, not least Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Socialism isn't fundamentally a matter of governance structures but of the economic organisation of society. I think it's widely accepted that, although China may once have been, or have sought to be, a socialist country, in the sense of having a government that seeks to build a socialist society, party policy has done a complete about-turn and for decades now has sought to develop a capitalist society. This isn't just a matter of trade with capitalist countries, but of building capitalism within China.

I think the dichotomy being proposed in this discussion of liberal democracy versus social democracy is mistaken. These are not exclusive categories. Social democracy is generally seen as a project of seeking to build a socialist society or a socialist economy through the institutions of a liberal democracy. The Scandinavian countries would be seen as good examples of this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139649#Comment_122139649

Seen him perform live - he's allowed to do it in Berlin because it's art, not political…

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140115#Comment_122140115

Here's the thing man, a social democracy and a liberal democracy share a lot in common. So much so that most political scientists consider social democracy a type of liberal democracy.

You like to state things as facts, but nothing here is a fact. Political science isn't like physics or chemistry. It is all debatable, you want to cling to ideas as "facts". They are in fact, just ideas. All political philosophies are just that, ideas. A load of lads get together and broadly agree that an idea fits a paradigm. In my opinion, none of that rises to the level of "fact".

But then, there's another opinion. "Fact" itself has multiple definitions. Why do I say these things? Because your determination to fit everything into a well defined box is a futile in my opinion. The world is shades of grey and spectrums.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139681#Comment_122139681

He's disputing that apparently, but the person he's disputing it "fondly remembers Mussolini" so not sure that's a much of a change.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139621#Comment_122139621

Ha! Firstly, I don't see the word "sorry" there and secondly, that's a dog (who can't vote, by the way, Phil) not a representaive of animal's rights.

When the ISPCA support him, I'll accept he's been forgiven!

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139526#Comment_122139526

Every single time far right get mentioned on this site you go off on a whataboutery tangent and then pretend it's not about deflection.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139621#Comment_122139621

Oh look. Scumbag thug animal abuser has a dog. It's like a convicted wife beater showing off his new trophy wife to prove a point.