The National Party

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192262#Comment_122192262

So, not really a centrist party at all, then; a conservative party. A party, clearly, that is more conservative than the centre-right conservative duopoly that has dominated Irish politics since 1922.

If you mischaracterise your own position like this, is it any wonder people don't take your protestations at face value? There's a long tradition of extremists (a) being very coy about the detail of the policies they support, and (b) claiming moderate labels to conceal policies and positions that are in fact quite extreme. You don't want to be mistaken for such a person, do you?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192433#Comment_122192433

Yeah, but in a democracy lots of people — though, necessarily, a minority of people — will support positions that the majorty don't support. The point of democracy is to legitimate and faciliate this, not to suppress it.

The Raging Bile Duct

The Irish Freedom Party are considered a centrist party, really?!?!

How can any Irish person think that Ireland leaving the EU would be a good idea?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192609#Comment_122192609

Because the Britis did it and they follow the Brit far right with a MAGA-level intensity.

Sunny Disposition

I am very suspicious about these far right parties, and indeed their far left equivalents.

Russia has funded parties like these in lots of countries, I'd be surprised if they haven't allocated funds to the Irish extremes.

Take a look at their policies on Ukraine and Russia. If they are in any way ambivalent about who is to blame for the war or about supporting Ukraine be very, very suspicious of them.

One thing I'm noticing is overseas publications picking up on stories about these parties as if they're significant players in Irish electoral politics because they contain the word 'party' in their title, yet nobody bothers checking that they haven't even managed to get a councillor elected never mind a TD.

Saw fairly high profile coverage for example of stuff that Herman Kelly said about Bambie Thug, as if he were a major figure in Irish politics.

Just a small example based on a couple of seconds on Google:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ejxvw11kxo

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/08/bambie-thug-hex-eurovision/

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/06/ireland-bambie-thug-eurovision-2024-non-binary-representation/

https://euroweeklynews.com/2024/05/09/who-is-bambie-thug-irelands-eurovision-hope/

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192609#Comment_122192609

Nobody considers the Irish Freedom Party a centrist party, really. Most people barely consider it a party at all, and certainly not a centrist party.

There may be some who pretend to consider it a centrist party, but it's not a pretence I think they expect many others to take seriously.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192675#Comment_122192675

I don't understand what your point is. I clicked on the Euronews and BBC links and they each quote Kelly once in a single sentence. People in the UK barely know who Leo Varadkar is, never mind Herman the German.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192504#Comment_122192504

Agree completely about the function of a representative democracy - If any viewpoint has sufficient support then they get a voice and potentially a seat at the table.

However thus far there is no meaningful support level for the sort of political grouping that a number of posters claim the country is "crying out for" and that would "do really well if only they stepped up".

There are no TD's , No Councilors , no MEPs that adhere to this apparently much needed ethos.

And there won't be any after the June Elections either.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192238#Comment_122192238

The PDs were not a conservative party.

IFP etc are a bunch of lunatics with policies designed to put Ireland back in the 1950s socially and economically - is that the sort of conservatism you're after? You're not going to get many people voting for that, ever.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192759#Comment_122192759

The PD's were broadly speaking a "Liberal Conservative" party.

So Socially Liberal but economically conservative - a set of principals that would have absolutely zero alignment or affinity for the current "conservative" types out there at present.

It should also be pointed out that the PD's never had more than 10 seats in the Dail.

Back then FF were still able to pull close to a majority all on their own so 8-10 seats was a meaningful number in terms of holding the balance of power , that is simply not the case today.

8-10 seats is Green party level of influence and whatever about that giving them the Environment portfolio - 8-10 seats doesn't get you the Dept. of Finance or any of the big seats to apply your "Conservative" values.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192703#Comment_122192703

My point is that in quite a bit of international coverage, those were just random examples, I have seen Irish far right parties with no reps being quoted as if they're major players in Irish politics.

Ireland has a fairly loose concept of what a political party is. What amount to just campaign groups are registered as parties.

It's just surprising how those kinds of stories just create more amplification for rather fringe players that are effectively outside mainstream politics. You see similar when you get some mad quote in the UK media from some unheard of MEP from some oddball party in Finland or something, as if they're the voice of Europe.

Most people outside of Ireland don't have a clue what politics is like here and they just see the word 'party' and assume the comment being made carries some weight, when in reality they are just campaign groups that have never had any electoral success.

In general knowledge of Irish politics abroad can be weird - I had people assume that Sinn Fein are a hard right nationalist party, because to them 'nationalist' always equates to something like the True Finns or Marine Le Pen.

I've also had people asking me which of FF and FG are catholic and protestant and do they still march and riot!?

I'm just amazed at the questions I'm getting about Ireland since the Dublin riots though. There's an assumption abroad that those involved are major players in Irish politics like the AFD in Germany or so on. Also if you read Irish X/Twitter you'd get a TOTALLY distorted view of what's going on here. You'd swear were as divided as the US.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192980#Comment_122192980

And therein lies the poison that is Social Media.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192826#Comment_122192826

So economically conservative a PD minister introduced Ireland's first minimum wage.

They won 14 seats in the 1987 election btw.

gmisk

Another national party candidate having a normal one...

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201104#Comment_122201104

Honestly, if you wrote half this stuff for television comedy the editors would kick your arse for straying into fantasy.

Dermot Morgan would have rejected this stuff as to fantastical for Father Ted.

PopePalpatine

Bishop Browne can't commit himself full time to the auld racism.

ancapailldorcha

Why can't they use proper grammar and spelling? Google and ChatGPT exist. There's no excuse for this.

Brussels Sprout

Michael Healy Rae never misses an opportunity to canvass some potential voters!

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201145#Comment_122201145

Or to make a few bob. He's getting €650,000 for housing refugees.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/michael-healy-rae-condemned-over-immigration-criticisms-while-receiving-650000-for-housing-ukrainian-refugees/a1230223278.html

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192826#Comment_122192826

They got 14 in 1987, becoming third party after a particularly poor election for Labour.

This was reversed in 1989 where they fell to 6 seats and fifth.

The 87 election was interesting in that due to there being so few Independent candidates, both the PDs and Labour got far more seats than is now normal for the % of the vote for smaller parties - 14 (of 166) seats on 8%, 12 on 7%; compared to in 2016 Labour getting 6 (of 158) on 7%.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201160#Comment_122201160

Fair enough.. The most they had whilst in Government was 8 under Harney and their first time in Government they had 6 seats so the point still broadly stands about the influence that a relatively small number of seats had 25+ years ago vs. today.

At 6-8 seats today (even 14) a party would likely be the 3rd group in a coalition and thus far less influential on policy than the PD's were back in the day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201104#Comment_122201104

If only getting out of the Catholic Church was that easy…

Hotblack Desiato

Who knew that saving souls was what the NP were all about 🤪

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192826#Comment_122192826

I wouldn’t have been a fan of some of the PD’s privatisation agenda, but they’re were not a conservative party, not by a long shot, particularly on social issues like divorce, LGBTQ rights and so on.

I don’t think they were even that conservative on social welfare, educational spending, etc etc

They were liberal and pro-business and drastically more socially liberally than FF and most of FG at the time. They were popular amongst some of that 1980s/90s electoral era because they were seen as modernising.

The hard core of conservative FG and FF has died off and the parties absorbed that pro business and more liberal position and are far more liberal than their predecessors.

I know if you look back at my parents generation the likes of Liz O’Donnell were seen as optimistic, forward looking and moving Ireland away from the vice like grip of the church and the 1950s. The kind of debates that we going on in the 80s and 90s were like what you see in a the US religious conservatives red states today - all about abortion, divorce, gay rights etc.

The PDs were basically a backlash against the crosier bashed ring kissing element of FF and FG that very much existed in the 80s and 90s and against the corruption of that era too. It was absolutely rotten.

Irish politics isn’t British politics and the PDs weren’t the Tories. They may have shared a few macroeconomic ideologies with the pro-business, low tax type Tories, but that was about it.

They became irrelevant because FG and FF just absorbed the same positions in politics

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210901#Comment_122210901

The PD's were Neo-Liberal in their policy pursuits. Pro privatisation, pro corporate interests over public interests, dissolving of public ownership. Very much a right wing party, while not necessarily a "conservative" one.

They didn't care about gays getting married or any of that shite.

Shan Doras

https://www.x.com/BarrettNatP/status/1790776290305245612

Gusser09

Who?

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122213278#Comment_122213278

Nasty little right wing polyp. Pops up every few years labouring under delusions of adequacy. Poster boy for ‘ridiculous person’.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122213278#Comment_122213278

The racist lad

Larbre34

There are not words in the English language for me to describe how pathetic that particular creature is.

I once heard a Turkish insult which amounts to "may stomach cancer grow in you and consume you from the inside out" or words to that effect.

I'd happily wish him that.