The National Party

dan1895 · 21-02-2021 3:48pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Who is ‘deflecting’?

Poster describes SF, I mention that this isn’t an SF thread and I’m ‘deflecting’?

So when he said National Party he was describing Sinn Fein?

Billy Mays · 21-02-2021 3:48pm

Stop being a plonker Rodney

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 3:50pm

dan1895 wrote: »

So when he said National Party he was describing Sinn Fein?

“Political exclusion... Hateful views and a lack of any real policies”

Describes SF to a tee.

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 3:51pm

Billy Mays wrote: »

Stop being a plonker Rodney

Anti-fa fascist bottomfeeders in the house.

Billy Mays · 21-02-2021 3:53pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Anti-fa fascist bottomfeeders in the house.

Great comeback m8

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 3:54pm

Billy Mays wrote: »

Great comeback m8

On a par with your own post, pal.

fantaiscool · 21-02-2021 4:08pm

dan1895 wrote: »

So when he said National Party he was describing Sinn Fein?

Is this Rodney guy struggling to comprehend the post in question or intentionally being a plonker?

Pherekydes · 21-02-2021 4:11pm

fantaiscool wrote: »

Is this Rodney guy struggling to comprehend the post in question or intentionally being a plonker?

The latter.

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 4:14pm

Stooping to personal abuse now, lads? Afraid to admit the party you back is scum?

21-02-2021 4:19pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Stooping to personal abuse now, lads? Afraid to admit the party you back is scum?

I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter... So your gotcha moment is failing mightily...

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 4:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter... So your gotcha moment is failing mightily...

Of course not. 5 of you ‘non SF supporters’ on the bandwagon at last count.

Did you all get a messsge from HQ?

Pherekydes · 21-02-2021 4:32pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Of course not. 5 of you ‘non SF supporters’ on the bandwagon at last count.

Did you all get a messsge from HQ?

Give up your pathetic trollery.

dan1895 · 21-02-2021 4:35pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Stooping to personal abuse now, lads? Afraid to admit the party you back is scum?

Never voted for them in my life

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 4:36pm

dan1895 wrote: »

Never voted for them in my life

Of course not.

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 4:37pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

Give up your pathetic trollery.

Or what? SF will send someone around to sort me out?

Pherekydes · 21-02-2021 4:45pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Or what? SF will send someone around to sort me out?

Not a shinner either. But at least we know your party.

Rodney Bathgate · 21-02-2021 4:52pm

You don’t need to have had a lobotomy to support SF, but it helps.

Ten of Swords · 21-02-2021 5:44pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I replied saying that this wasn’t an SF thread. Not that hard to grasp.

And yet...

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

“Political exclusion... Hateful views and a lack of any real policies”

Describes SF to a tee.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Stooping to personal abuse now, lads? Afraid to admit the party you back is scum?

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Of course not. 5 of you ‘non SF supporters’ on the bandwagon at last count.

Did you all get a messsge from HQ?

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Or what? SF will send someone around to sort me out?

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

You don’t need to have had a lobotomy to support SF, but it helps.

Rodney Bathgate do not post in this thread again

Brussels Sprout · 21-02-2021 6:04pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Is it, given that, as such parties have never even threatened mediocrity in Ireland before?

Personally I wish it weren't so but yes I think it is inevitable. Here's why:

One of the main reasons that we do not have a semi-credible far-right party in this country is because Sinn Fein have absorbed a lot of the disaffected nationalist vote. Given their own history in the North, Sinn Fein, to their credit, have never gone down the immigrant-bashing route. Quite the opposite in fact. If you notice the supporters of the fringe far-right parties reserve their most vicious criticism for Sinn Fein. They recognise that they are impeding their preferred party's growth.

In the near-future Sinn Fein will enter a government. It is inevitable given their political momentum and the fact that they are now the main party of opposition. When parties enter governments, especially coalition governments, they have to make compromises. Whenever they do, they lose support as people who voted for them feel like they have sold out if it's a policy that they themselves valued highly.
Sinn Fein managed to weave a coalition of voters in the last election where they were all things to all people. When in government they couldn't possibly maintain all of those promises. People who traditionally have been cynical about politics will feel especially burned here and will likely be open to a more nativist message - especially if there is a recession.

That will leave the disaffected lane wide open for a far-right party - but probably not the ones out there at the moment who are made up of a bunch of unelectable misfits with too much baggage.

Eric Cartman · 21-02-2021 6:24pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Personally I wish it weren't so but yes I think it is inevitable. Here's why:

One of the main reasons that we do not have a semi-credible far-right party in this country is because Sinn Fein have absorbed a lot of the disaffected nationalist vote. Given their own history in the North, Sinn Fein, to their credit, have never gone down the immigrant-bashing route. Quite the opposite in fact. If you notice the supporters of the fringe far-right parties reserve their most vicious criticism for Sinn Fein. They recognise that they are impeding their preferred party's growth.

In the near-future Sinn Fein will enter a government. It is inevitable given their political momentum and the fact that they are now the main party of opposition. When parties enter governments, especially coalition governments, they have to make compromises. Whenever they do, they lose support as people who voted for them feel like they have sold out if it's a policy that they themselves valued highly.
Sinn Fein managed to weave a coalition of voters in the last election where they were all things to all people. When in government they couldn't possibly maintain all of those promises. People who traditionally have been cynical about politics will feel especially burned here and will likely be open to a more nativist message - especially if there is a recession.

That will leave the disaffected lane wide open for a far-right party - but probably not the ones out there at the moment who are made up of a bunch of unelectable misfits with too much baggage.

I think Irelands loss is that we cannot sustain a moderate right party. We have a far right fringe who are all thankfully un-electable , but sadly this has only assisted the left as many moderates who have concerns about immigration have no political home and any attempt to generate one has that new party dead in the water from day one as it gets dragged in to that cess pit.

SF trying to get in to government and SF in power would be a different animal. The old school SF voters would probably align pretty heavily with where the NP is now. Rather than them having changed views or changed allegiance, I suspect most think this is a vote getting exercise and were they in power they'd turn the steering wheel full lock right towards a 32 county catholic conservative Ireland with no foreigners, foreign companies and nationalise every property a REIT ever owned here.

This lingering belief is the only thing stopping a shift from SF to the NP by the older set in my view. While SF were very transfer friendly from the far left (PbP etc..) last time around, there were remarks among those I knew counting in some laois-offaly and sligo-leitrim of a fair few ballots showing up with SF taking 1 or 1 and 2 with only the NP marked after. Both parties have a very heavy working / welfare class following so its not hard to see how this would occur.

As a result its kind of symbiotic , SF's existence keeps the far right at bay yet if the left voters of Ireland ever put them in power it would likely trigger a massive rise of the far right either internally in SF or by sticking to their lefty mask and the core voters defecting to the likes of the NP.

flazio · 21-02-2021 6:32pm

I'm confused Eric . Never mind using the "left" or "right" terminology here.
Are you saying you perceive Sinn Féin to be a liberal party or a conservative party? Or both depending on the particular political issue?

21-02-2021 6:34pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

You don’t need to have had a lobotomy to support SF, but it helps.

True, but mandatory for the national party, going by the scour issued by their membership and examples of their supporters as can be seen online and in the courts.

Eric Cartman · 21-02-2021 6:51pm

flazio wrote: »

I'm confused Eric . Never mind using the "left" or "right" terminology here.
Are you saying you perceive Sinn Féin to be a liberal party or a conservative party? Or both depending on the particular political issue?

Im saying SF’s left mask is only a recent thing and up till say the early 00’s SF were bordering on far right, now its hard to tell if mary lou has actually reformed them to be a working class left party or the extreme right is hiding behind the mask, i bet the latter

flazio · 21-02-2021 7:08pm

*Sigh* I miss the days when Left and Right were travelling directions instead of idealisms.

The Raging Bile Duct · 21-02-2021 7:23pm

flazio wrote: »

*Sigh* I miss the days when Left and Right were travelling directions instead of idealisms.

Back in the 1800s?

flazio · 21-02-2021 7:25pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Back in the 1800s?

Get lost I'm not that old. Nah, I mean the days before I learned about politics and how to turn people into my enemies.

The Raging Bile Duct · 21-02-2021 7:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im saying SF’s left mask is only a recent thing and up till say the early 00’s SF were bordering on far right, now its hard to tell if mary lou has actually reformed them to be a working class left party or the extreme right is hiding behind the mask, i bet the latter

That's nonsense. The IRA and Sinn Fein were heavily Marxist from the Troubles onwards. The Sinn Fein of the 21st century had gone more towards the centre to appeal to more voters.

vafankillar · 21-02-2021 7:33pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Back in the 1800s?

at least in the 1800s the left was actually tolerant of other views & not violent thugs that want to censor & cancel everyone

dan1895 · 21-02-2021 7:55pm

vafankillar wrote: »

at least in the 1800s the left was actually tolerant of other views & not violent thugs that want to censor & cancel everyone

He says with a straight face in a thread about the far right national party.

Eric Cartman · 21-02-2021 7:59pm

dan1895 wrote: »

He says with a straight face in a thread about the far right national party.

its possible to acknowledge that both extreme elements are bad. This thread has been resoundingly about one group calling out extremism on both sides and condemning it, and the other group perceiving that as support for the national party.

I don't think we've had more than 1 or 2 new rereg accounts actually say anything positive about the NP in this thread, yet some carry on like its an NP echo chamber in here.

The National Party

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