The National Party

John Doe1

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's a different Lord Mayor of Dublin every year but I've never heard of one being targeted in their home (yes, the Mansion House is their home for the year) in that way before, have you?

Has any previous Lord Mayor of Dublin ever been told to go "back" to China ?

There is a miniscule Far-right element in this country that actually cares about a person's skin colour and Hazel Chu does tend to rile them up (although some of her race-baiting does not help)

It should be noted however that having a pessimistic view about multiculturalism and wanting to have something like a points based immigration system and filtering out frauds from refugee applicants is not a far right racist position.

Btw, as someone who lived in China for a period, its much more racist than here.

ThunbergsAreGo

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's a different Lord Mayor of Dublin every year but I've never heard of one being targeted in their home (yes, the Mansion House is their home for the year) in that way before, have you?

Has any previous Lord Mayor of Dublin ever been told to go "back" to China ?

Didn't one of the previous Lord Mayor sat that protest happens every year? Outside the Mansion House/Lord Mayors home

Peregrinus

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Didn't one of the previous Lord Mayor sat that protest happens every year? Outside the Mansion House/Lord Mayors home

Protests and demonstrations outside the Mansion House are common enough, but they are usually protests about (a) some matter of general public policy, or (b) some action or inaction of the Corporation, not protests against the Lord Mayor personally, or against the Lord Mayor wearing a face mask, or accusing the Lord Mayor of being a shape-shifting lizard.

I think we can see that there is a significant difference between, say, protests about local authority housing policy on the one hand and personal protests aimed at the Lord Mayor by people who are plainly borderline deranged on the other. This isn't a normal experience for Lord Mayors, and we shouldn't pretend that it is.

Eric Cartman

Peregrinus wrote: »

Protests and demonstrations outside the Mansion House are common enough, but they are usually protests about (a) some matter of general public policy, or (b) some action or inaction of the Corporation, not protests against the Lord Mayor personally, or against the Lord Mayor wearing a face mask, or accusing the Lord Mayor of being a shape-shifting lizard.

I think we can see that there is a significant difference between, say, protests about local authority housing policy on the one hand and personal protests aimed at the Lord Mayor by people who are plainly borderline deranged on the other. This isn't a normal experience for Lord Mayors, and we shouldn't pretend that it is.

I think we can agree the above, however I dont think it takes away from my original point that aside from those people, most criticism of Hazel is on policy or action and its bad faith for both herself and many members of this forum to lump all criticism of her as ‘racism/sexism’ . Its not a good idea to have a politician that upon being called out for anything runs straight to ‘aghh the far right’

ThunbergsAreGo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Protests and demonstrations outside the Mansion House are common enough, but they are usually protests about (a) some matter of general public policy, or (b) some action or inaction of the Corporation, not protests against the Lord Mayor personally, or against the Lord Mayor wearing a face mask, or accusing the Lord Mayor of being a shape-shifting lizard.

I think we can see that there is a significant difference between, say, protests about local authority housing policy on the one hand and personal protests aimed at the Lord Mayor by people who are plainly borderline deranged on the other. This isn't a normal experience for Lord Mayors, and we shouldn't pretend that it is.

Oh apologies I didnt know the protests were specifically organised against Chu personally. I had assumed they were for similar reasons as previous years.

I had assumed as it was the same day and same group each year it would be the same reason.

Annasopra

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we can agree the above, however I dont think it takes away from my original point that aside from those people, most criticism of Hazel is on policy or action and its bad faith for both herself and many members of this forum to lump all criticism of her as ‘racism/sexism’ . Its not a good idea to have a politician that upon being called out for anything runs straight to ‘aghh the far right’

I dont think anyone has ever claimed that all criticism of her is racist or sexist. They have however highlighted she gets a lot of racist abuse.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Because the others havent lived in the mansion house...

Eh, that's a complete and utter lie. Each lord mayor and family tend to live in the mansion house.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we can agree the above, however I dont think it takes away from my original point that aside from those people, most criticism of Hazel is on policy or action and its bad faith for both herself and many members of this forum to lump all criticism of her as ‘racism/sexism’ . Its not a good idea to have a politician that upon being called out for anything runs straight to ‘aghh the far right’

No it isn't, the vast majority of criticism has been racist pile ons. The exact same people who are obsessed with her are similarly going mental at the likes of Ebun Joseph who they invariably say should leave the country because she highlights racism exists in Ireland. Like I suspect the same people don't even know who the Lord mayor is on the average year.

Eric Cartman

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone has ever claimed that all criticism of her is racist or sexist. They have however highlighted she gets a lot of racist abuse.

Protonmikes reply above basically sums it up, there are people who get themselves in a massive flap every time Hazel is criticised and claim its all racism , when in reality its a tiny but admittedly very loud group participating in the racist abuse which Hazel herself uses as a rug to sweep the legitimate concerns under

Peregrinus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone has ever claimed that all criticism of her is racist or sexist. They have however highlighted she gets a lot of racist abuse.

This. If somebody is subject to racist abuse, the fact that they might also be the target of legitimate protest is neither here nor there.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Protonmikes reply above basically sums it up, there are people who get themselves in a massive flap every time Hazel is criticised and claim its all racism , when in reality its a tiny but admittedly very loud group participating in the racist abuse which Hazel herself uses as a rug to sweep the legitimate concerns under

I said the vast majority is. Yes, there are legitimate policies that you can find of either Chu or the green party(frankly I hate the state of the green party atm). That's invariably not what you get from the people who are infatuated with her.

They also get overly offended when she points out that she is subjected to racial abuse. They generally go as far as claiming it didn't even happen...

ThunbergsAreGo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I said the vast majority is. Yes, there are legitimate policies that you can find of either Chu or the green party(frankly I hate the state of the green party atm). That's invariably not what you get from the people who are infatuated with her.

They also get overly offended when she points out that she is subjected to racial abuse. They generally go as far as claiming it didn't even happen...

Agree with almost all of that. Best way to stop her speaking about racist abuse is to just, you know, stop giving her any abuse that could be construed as racist.

Tony EH

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Agree with almost all of that. Best way to stop her speaking about racist abuse is to just, you know, stop giving her any abuse that could be construed as racist.

That proves to be very difficult, though, for the...well, you know...racists who can only see her as the "Chinese" Lord Mayor of Dublin. :pac:

And let's not pretend that some of that type aren't on this very site posting about her because of that.

ThunbergsAreGo

Tony EH wrote: »

That proves to be very difficult, though, for the...well, you know...racists who can only see her as the "Chinese" Lord Mayor of Dublin. :pac:

And let's not pretend that some of that type aren't on this very site posting about her because of that.

Very true, especially as she is Irish....

Though lets not pretend abuse and name calling of politicians is limited to racists - West Brit and Tory, also have very clear connotations. Stephen Donnely is getting awful abuse at present

I think Dublin Citys Lord Mayor has handled a few things badly over the last while, and am not a massive fan of her, I do not and never will feel inclined to call her insulting names of any kinds

Peregrinus

Tony EH wrote: »

That proves to be very difficult, though, for the...well, you know...racists who can only see her as the "Chinese" Lord Mayor of Dublin. :pac:

And let's not pretend that some of that type aren't on this very site posting about her because of that.

Well, yes.

And this complicates matters. Because let's say you're upset about what Hazel Chu has said or done about X or Y issue. And you're also upset about the fact that Hazel Chu is the victim of sustained racist abuse. And this gives you (at least) two problems.

First, if you attack Hazel Chu about X or Y issue, you may be perceived to togging out with the racists, or attacking someone who is a victim of racism. And, while that perception may be unjustified, that doesn't make it any the less real. So you might think that the racist attacks make it less opportune for you to address Hazel Chu's stance on X or Y issue. You might be right.

Secondly, you might feel that, of the two issues, the racist attacks are much the more signficant, and that it's much more important to name, shame and denounce racism than it is to name, shame and denounce Hazel Chu's policy on X or Y. When the staff of Charlie Hebdo was being murdered in their offices, this was probably not the time to complain about their coverage of Islam being offensively racist even though it was, in fact, offensively racist. And, by the same token, when an Irish politician is attacked for being of Chinese ethnicity, that is probably not the time to be calling attention to what might be valid but lesser concerns.

Tony EH

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Though lets not pretend abuse and name calling of politicians is limited to racists

I didn't say that it was.

ThunbergsAreGo

Tony EH wrote: »

I didn't say that it was.

Its more just despair on my part at how politicians seem to be fair game to abuse these days

Eric Cartman

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Its more just despair on my part at how politicians seem to be fair game to abuse these days

People had no issue with it when it was just FF being abused , its only bad when its left of centre parties

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

People had no issue with it when it was just FF being abused , its only bad when its left of centre parties

was anybody in FF racially abused on a regular basis?

fantaiscool

Tony EH wrote: »

That proves to be very difficult, though, for the...well, you know...racists who can only see her as the "Chinese" Lord Mayor of Dublin. :pac:

And let's not pretend that some of that type aren't on this very site posting about her because of that.

That's pretty much everyone who criticizes her on here.

fantaiscool

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, yes.

And this complicates matters. Because let's say you're upset about what Hazel Chu has said or done about X or Y issue. And you're also upset about the fact that Hazel Chu is the victim of sustained racist abuse. And this gives you (at least) two problems.

First, if you attack Hazel Chu about X or Y issue, you may be perceived to togging out with the racists, or attacking someone who is a victim of racism. And, while that perception may be unjustified, that doesn't make it any the less real. So you might think that the racist attacks make it less opportune for you to address Hazel Chu's stance on X or Y issue. You might be right.

Secondly, you might feel that, of the two issues, the racist attacks are much the more signficant, and that it's much more important to name, shame and denounce racism than it is to name, shame and denounce Hazel Chu's policy on X or Y. When the staff of Charlie Hebdo was being murdered in their offices, this was probably not the time to complain about their coverage of Islam being offensively racist even though it was, in fact, offensively racist. And, by the same token, when an Irish politician is attacked for being of Chinese ethnicity, that is probably not the time to be calling attention to what might be valid but lesser concerns.

Really good post. Sums it up perfectly.

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was anybody in FF racially abused on a regular basis?

Nobody is saying the racist abuse is Ok, the tiny amount of people doing that are bad .

But ‘abusing’ politicians in a general not racist way has been par for the course ever since there were public fora in which to do so, nobody had a problem with it until very recently

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Nobody is saying the racist abuse is Ok, the tiny amount of people doing that are bad .

But ‘abusing’ politicians in a general not racist way has been par for the course ever since there were public fora in which to do so, nobody had a problem with it until very recently

i get the impression that some posters dont think it is that bad at all.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Nobody is saying the racist abuse is Ok, the tiny amount of people doing that are bad .

But ‘abusing’ politicians in a general not racist way has been par for the course ever since there were public fora in which to do so, nobody had a problem with it until very recently

Thing is, you're actively downplaying when you claim it's a tiny amount of people doing it. It's a pretty concerted racist campaign against her.

fantaiscool

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i get the impression that some posters dont think it is that bad at all.

I get the feeling they quite enjoy the racist vitriol that she has had to deal with.

SexBobomb

fantaiscool wrote: »

I get the feeling they quite enjoy the racist vitriol that she has had to deal with.

Lots of feelings and impressions floating around this morning, any astrologists in to round it out ?

Tacitus Kilgore

SexBobomb wrote: »

Lots of feelings and impressions floating around this morning, any astrologists in to round it out ?

Never heard of astrologists before but there's plenty of racists, will they do instead?

WrenBoy

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Never heard of astrologists before but there's plenty of racists, will they do instead?

Well Im sure you'll get the feeling or impression of being surrounded by them alright, but in reality your lucky enough to be living in a very fair and safe country with a very generous and welcoming people.

Tacitus Kilgore

WrenBoy wrote: »

Well Im sure you'll get the feeling or impression of being surrounded by them alright, but in reality your lucky enough to be living in a very fair and safe country with a very generous and welcoming people.

I agree, just need to keep working on stamping out the few horrible ones.

Always good to strive for better


Luckily most of them seem to be located on boards, in CA... :pac:

WrenBoy

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I agree, just need to keep working on stamping out the few horrible ones.

Always good to strive for better


Luckily most of them seem to be located on boards, in CA... :pac:

Along with a big contingent of the anti-Irish crowd.

WrenBoy

WrenBoy wrote: »

Along with a big contingent of the anti-Irish crowd.

And here we go again..