The National Party

MadYaker

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not so certain that no road leads to success for the right wing in this country. We should not sleep on such a possibility.

Some people slept on Brexit. People slept on Trump 2016.

There doesn't seem to be much political oxygen for any right wing parties though. If those views were common among the public you would see that reflected in the main parties. They'd be tacking to the right like the tories were forced to do by the brexiteers. If anything the main parties in Ireland are moving further left not right.

Tony EH

nullzero wrote: »

You do realise that our current coalition government is made up of two dyed in the wool conservative political parties?

The Republic of Ireland's entire political history has been dominated in one form or another by conservative governance. It's gas hearing calls for a "conservative" party. :pac:

DelaneysMule

GirlatdRockShow wrote: »

Of course, you can see these admission right on the National Party website would you believe
Eileen Gunning and Paul McWeeney both reference working abroad in their bios https://nationalparty.ie/candidates/#

Eileen Gunning is reported to have worked and married in Dubai previously. I don't have the original link to this information. However, when she returned to Ireland she became embroiled in a court battle for her parents home. These court documents give some insight:https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5da059604653d07dedfd611d
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5da02b7d4653d058440f98cb

"Ms Gunning who had been living aboard for some years, returned with her daughter to live in the cottage in 1991"
"Eileen Gunning (otherwise Eileen Hameed)"

Her daughter also includes Hameed as part of her surname.

So you can make all of that what you will. BTW I have no issues with them working abroad or having these relationships.
What I do have an issue with is that they campaign for policies that restrict others from doing they exact same things as they did!

Also I am in agreement with many posters here, Ireland does need a strong party that will challenge some of the status quo to a certain extent on immigration, especially in light of O'Gorman recent announcements, however the national party ain't it. All they do is categorise these issues as antics of the "extreme right" and thus ensure that these issues aren't taking seriously.

That's some good findings there.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

*Looks at thread title*

Are we really talking about centre right in this thread?

You said we'll eventually get a popular conservative party. I pointed out we already have a government made up primarily by two Conservative parties.

You still think you can condescend to me for some reason whilst shifting the goal posts, and the usual suspects are thanking your post. How surprising.

osarusan

seamus wrote: »

As a politician whose agenda is obsessed with interfering in the private lives of people, he specifically doesn't get a pass on this.

Nothing about his private life should be beyond scrutiny.

What's good for the goose...

I don't agree with this.


Especially when there is so much that Barrett can be legitimately ctiticised for, why is there a need to poke into his private life.


We don't need to be reduced to that.

AndrewJRenko

MadYaker wrote: »

They'd be tacking to the right like the tories were forced to do by the brexiteers.

And we all know how well that worked out for them....

MadYaker wrote: »

If anything the main parties in Ireland are moving further left not right.

Not so much moving left as forced left temporarily by coalition arrangements, I'd have thought. FG would be out on the right wing on economic and welfare matters like a hot snot if they could get away with it.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

You said we'll eventually get a popular conservative party. I pointed out we already have a government made up primarily by two Conservative parties.

You still think you can condescend to me for some reason whilst shifting the goal posts, and the usual suspects are thanking your post. How surprising.

*Looks at thread title*

No, no, I can understand how you got confused.

nullzero

osarusan wrote: »

I don't agree with this.


Especially when there is so much that Barrett can be legitimately ctiticised for, why is there a need to poke into his private life.


We don't need to be reduced to that.

Fair comment.

No need to kick him in the balls when his chin is there for the taking.

chosen1

nullzero wrote: »

You do realise that our current coalition government is made up of two dyed in the wool conservative political parties?

Curious to know on what issues would you consider Fine Gael or Fianna Fails leadership conservative these days?

Socially they are all pro gay marriage, pro trans rights, pro choice, pro immigration etc. so is it their economic policies that define them?

Even economically, they would barely struggle to be considered right of centre in an international sense, with their broad support of public education, health and social welfare supports. Know all of these have their own problems before anyone comes in on these.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Inevitably a conservative leader with charisma will appear, and you might see votes moving in that direction.

If that happens, the same people will say "we didn't see it coming!"

:rolleyes:

Here's your earlier post again.

Votes are already going to Conservative leaders as things stand.

I'm not confused by the discussion, just your inability to understand how redundant your comment was.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

Here's your earlier post again.

Votes are already going to Conservative leaders as things stand.

I'm not confused by the discussion, just your inability to understand how redundant your comment was.

Great points, well made.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Great points, well made.

Take care of yourself.

Ok! So to anyone reading this post, when I say right wing I'm referring to far or alt right parties, not FF/FG.

Just felt the need to clear that up!

Anyway, my concern is that we might be underestimating the potential support for such beliefs in Ireland and that we may be asleep on this potential. I know that Ireland recently had success with same sex marriage and abortion referenda so this might be taken as an example of shifting to the left, but remember, those votes weren't 100% yes either. Not even close.

For many, many people Trump being elected was a surprise. So was Brexit (Neither were to me). So I hope we don't get too complacent about our local alt right wing citizens.

I'm referring to far or alt right parties, not FF/FG. Just to be clear.

Galwayguy35

MadYaker wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be much political oxygen for any right wing parties though. If those views were common among the public you would see that reflected in the main parties. They'd be tacking to the right like the tories were forced to do by the brexiteers. If anything the main parties in Ireland are moving further left not right.

I think a lot more people lean right than you might think, we vote for the main parties or in my own case Independant because there is no credible right wing party here at the present time.

FG/FF are moving in the direction of Lab, Greens and the SDs with some of their views especially on the subject of illegal immigration into this country.

Mad_maxx

Tony EH wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland's entire political history has been dominated in one form or another by conservative governance. It's gas hearing calls for a "conservative" party. :pac:

A party can be socially conservative while also being economically left wing , that used to be FF before MM became leader , FF have been in power for the majority of the nations history

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

A party can be socially conservative while also being economically left wing , that used to be FF before MM became leader , FF have been in power for the majority of the nations history

FF have never been "economically left wing". They have always favoured big business and the business classes as have FG. Both our civil war parties will put the rights and needs of big business ahead of everything else.

They've always been like that and they are still like that.

Mad_maxx

nullzero wrote: »

You do realise that our current coalition government is made up of two dyed in the wool conservative political parties?

FF have never viewed themselves as a conservative party , i know the media have but the party have not and neither have its voters

Mad_maxx

Tony EH wrote: »

FF have never been "economically left wing". They have always favoured big business and the business classes as have FG. Both our civil war parties will put the rights and needs of big business ahead of everything else.

They've always been like that and they are still like that.

not true , FF were always about buying off various vested interest with whatever largesse was available , it was essential to their " all things to all men - whatever you are having yourself " pitch

a party does not need to have ruth coppingers attitude to " big business " in order to pass the pepsi challenge of what constitutes a party of the right

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

FF have never viewed themselves as a conservative party , i know the media have but the party have not and neither have its voters

This is just, simply, flat out wrong. FF have ALWAYS considered themselves a conservative element within Irish politics. They're just not as conservative as FG or the PD's when they were around.

Their stated ideology is one of, relatively mild, conservatism with a dash of old style liberalism when it suits.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok! So to anyone reading this post, when I say right wing I'm referring to far or alt right parties, not FF/FG.

Just felt the need to clear that up!

Anyway, my concern is that we might be underestimating the potential support for such beliefs in Ireland and that we may be asleep on this potential. I know that Ireland recently had success with same sex marriage and abortion referenda so this might be taken as an example of shifting to the left, but remember, those votes weren't 100% yes either. Not even close.

For many, many people Trump being elected was a surprise. So was Brexit (Neither were to me). So I hope we don't get too complacent about our local alt right wing citizens.

I'm referring to far or alt right parties, not FF/FG. Just to be clear.

We're not underestimating the support for far right beliefs in Ireland, if anything we're vastly over estimating it.

The Irish media seems hell bent on pushing the narrative of impending far right governance, it's like our version on the Red Scare.

Groups with far right, xenophobic beliefs should always be monitored closely, but the reality in Ireland is that people just do not have an appetite for what they're pushing.

The National Party received a paltry number of votes as recently as last year's General election, people have no tolerance for what they're pushing and the comparisons between Ireland and the elections of Trump in a country where there is effectively a two party system that tends to exchange power at most every 8 years so leaves the foot open for some right tulips to get elected in dodgy circumstances (George W anyone?) just doesn't compare readily with our electoral system.

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

not true , FF were always about buying off various vested interest with whatever largesse was available , it was essential to their " all things to all men - whatever you are having yourself " pitch

a party does not need to have ruth coppingers attitude to " big business " in order to pass the pepsi challenge of what constitutes a party of the right

FF are on the right of the political spectrum. They have always been on the right of the political spectrum.

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok! So to anyone reading this post, when I say right wing I'm referring to far or alt right parties...

They prefer to be called neo-liberal, moderate, centre-right parties.

Tony EH

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

They prefer to be called neo-liberal, moderate, centre-right parties.

Neo-Liberalism is still a right wing ideology no matter what kind of weasel terminology is used. It's centred around deregulated global business interests and its "liberalism" extends only to corporate freedoms. Plus it is intent on the destruction of empowered labour.

It may not give too much thought to mickey mouse concerns like gay marriage and any of that stuff, but that certainly doesn't mean that the central thrust of Neo-Liberalism doesn't coincide with general right wing ideology.

Hotblack Desiato

So-called "neo-liberalism" is not liberal and it's not neo either.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

FF have never viewed themselves as a conservative party , i know the media have but the party have not and neither have its voters

FF are still a very socially conservative party, most of their TDs came out against us even getting a vote on the repeal of 8th amendment in spite of their leader being in favour of both the vote and repeal.

Mad_maxx

Tony EH wrote: »

FF are on the right of the political spectrum. They have always been on the right of the political spectrum.

They are centre left, they were this countries Labour party for most of our history

Loafing Oaf

Tony EH wrote: »

This is just, simply, flat out wrong. FF have ALWAYS considered themselves a conservative element within Irish politics.

Sean Lemass described FF as "Ireland's real Labour Party". Bertie Ahern described himself as a socialist. Martin said the party was 'a bit to the left'. Can you quote me a prominent FFer who characterised the party as 'conservative' or 'right wing'?

They may well be on the right of the political spectrum as you conceive it, but I genuinely don't think most FFers see themselves in that light.

Mad_maxx

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Sean Lemass described FF as "Ireland's real Labour Party". Bertie Ahern described himself as a socialist. Martin said the party was 'a bit to the left'. Can you quote me a prominent FFer who characterised the party as 'conservative' or 'right wing'?

They may well be on the right of the political spectrum as you conceive it, but I genuinely don't think most FFers see themselves in that light.

not even the progressive left could accuse FF of being conservative today , MM is as left socially and economically as anyone in the Labour party or the Greens

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They are centre left, they were this countries Labour party for most of our history

You're wrong and it's that simple. There's no more to be said here.

Tony EH

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Sean Lemass described FF as "Ireland's real Labour Party". Bertie Ahern described himself as a socialist. Martin said the party was 'a bit to the left'. Can you quote me a prominent FFer who characterised the party as 'conservative' or 'right wing'?

They may well be on the right of the political spectrum as you conceive it, but I genuinely don't think most FFers see themselves in that light.

Go here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_F%C3%A1il

and change any reference to conservative or conservatism and see how long it'll last before someone changes it back.

ThunbergsAreGo

chosen1 wrote: »

Curious to know on what issues would you consider Fine Gael or Fianna Fails leadership conservative these days?

Socially they are all pro gay marriage, pro trans rights, pro choice, pro immigration etc. so is it their economic policies that define them?

Even economically, they would barely struggle to be considered right of centre in an international sense, with their broad support of public education, health and social welfare supports. Know all of these have their own problems before anyone comes in on these.

So no answer to this?

Over 30 percent voted against gay marriage and abortion (I didn't for the record), no credible parties took this stance.