I think its safe to say; Leo will go down as one of this countries greatest ever...

biko

theballz wrote: »

Leo will go down as one of this countries greatest ever...

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Leo will go down as one of this countries greatest ever... spoofers?

paddythere wrote: »

He'll go down as one of the countries greatest ever dickheads

*country's*

super_furry

Enda was better.

theballz

Tears across the country today. What I’ll say is, don’t be sad it’s over. Be happy it ever happened

Beechwoodspark

McMurphy wrote: »

And, he didn't even win the popular vote to become leader. Coveney got twice as many votes as Varadkar.

His achievements are short in supply.

This is the thing. Varadkar has been in the dail since the mid 2000s?

What achievements can he point to? Deadly serious question.

Beechwoodspark

super_furry wrote: »

Enda was better.

Enda showed varadkar and that doddery fool from Meath what politics was really about when they hatched their grand plan to backstab Kenny.

Kenny made them look like 2 sniveling idiots

theballz

super_furry wrote: »

Enda was better.

Nonsense. No he wasn’t.

Spanish Eyes

To me he is the youngest Taoiseach that I can remember anyway, and he is a great communicator (even if you don't agree with his words), always immaculately turned out and a credit to us all on the World Stage.

He caught the zeitgeist of the nation due to his youth, orientation and background. I think he did well myself. But I wouldn't lionise him. A job well done during Covid anyway for sure.

The same problems that always existed will continue with MM. I wish the new Taoiseach well though, and hope he does a good job during his tenure.

wandererz

Politics is about money.

Martin is on €207K.

Varadkar is now on €191K, down from €196K last Friday.
But will be back up to €207K in two years for 2 years.

Already has a pension of 1.7M with about 80K/year.
(Government now claiming GDPR to not provide recent information)

Surely to increase considerably in 5 years once he retires as Taoiseach.

Nice one.

Ha! I just realised that Leo has pulled off a Putin by becoming deputy prime minister and then returning later! Nice one!

dabestman1

all mouth and no substance, never did any thing only spin. Worst ever

twowheelsonly

Deleted User wrote: »

Quite possibly the greatest spoofer we've ever had lead a government.

Abysmal failure in each of his three prior ministerial positions and capped it off as an abysmal Taoiseach.

I would say good riddance but then I look at who's coming in the door.

At least I'd be pretty sure that Martin won't spend his time at overseas conferences taking pictures for his Twitter feed of some other leaders shoes while that leader is making a speech !!

Leo is a spoofer and an opportunist. He never campaigned for nor did anything else to enhance gay rights until it became fashionable to do so and he could use it to his advantage. A short ten years ago he wouldn't even come out and support the Civil Partnerships Bill.

Seeing as he likes quotes so much....
"Two men cannot have a child, two women cannot have a child… That is a fact, nobody can deny otherwise. Every child has a right to a mother and father, and as much as possible, the State should try and vindicate that right, and that the right of a child to have a mother and father is much more important than the right of two men, or two women, to have a family."
Leo. 2010.

It's not just what he has done as Taoiseach either but what he has done as a TD throughout his time in Government. He scores a big fat zero on that for me as well.

wandererz

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Leo is a spoofer and an opportunist. He never campaigned for nor did anything else to enhance gay rights until it became fashionable to do so and he could use it to his advantage. A short ten years ago he wouldn't even come out and support the Civil Partnerships Bill.

It's also all about timing.
Gauge the will of the people first.

Imagine someone doing this few decades ago. They'd be run into the sea.

GT89

Absolutely useless arrogant taoiseach. I actually forgot he's wasn't actually the Taoiseach for the last 4 months he was the tuirseach as him and Simon were working so hard tirelessly especially whilst he was shirtless whilst drinking in the Phoneix Park.

wandererz

In terms of the OP's original title:
"Leo will go down as one of this countries greatest ever..."

Perhaps greatest in terms of :

Being Taoiseach then Tainaiste then Taoiseach again.
(Pulling a Putin)

Has anyone done that before?

Or been a two time Taoiseach?

And then limiting an incumbent opposition Taoiseach to just two years.

markodaly

sameoldname wrote: »

He's a middle of the road politician, which is why the left and right hate him equally. Once again proving that people on either extreme think more like each other than like the rest of us.

Barring any major scandal, I'd say history will judge him as one of the better ones.

This. So this.

The people that hate him most are the lunatic fringe. The Gemma o'Doherty types and the far left types. Brothers in arms fighting the good fight.

Leo is very much a centrist. Think Tony Blair new labour.

Personally I feel that he would have loved to have done more and changed more, but the cards he was dealt, that was being a Taoiseach in a minority government meant that his hands were very much tied, so big reforms or policy initiatives had to be curtailed.

It would have been very interesting to see what would have happened had he been given a FG/Labour 2011 type mandate.

I feel though that he has grown into the job a lot more, especially over Brexit and Covid-19 the two big crisis he had to deal with, he did well, very well in fact.
Also, the guy is 41 and will have at least a two and a half more years as Taoiseach under the present arrangement so we will see what else he has in store.

If he wanted to, he can remain in policies for the next 25 years but I doubt that.
He is well-liked internationally (well maybe not the English press but that is a good thing right?) and has done well on that stage. A UN security council seat and very very good ties with the EU will do us well. I know the populist idiots out there will say 'so what' but these things do matter in the grand scheme of things.

He did not get everything right, prone to the odd gaffe here and there, but overall, a steady pair of hands and will use this experience in good stead for the future of his party.

In histories eye, he will be up in the top half IMO. Certainly better than Cowen or Bruton, more recently.

Now that MM from FF has the top job now, we will see how easy the top job is! The only truth really is that everyone is a critic and from what we have seen over the past few days online, the average person commenting on social media or twitter are grade A idiots who don't have the slightest clue about our politics, or system of elections or government.

It pains me to say, that I thought Irish people were more clued in than the average Brexit Brit but sadly, no, there are plenty of idiots out there who are as useless as a Donkey with a plough.

joeguevara

daedal wrote: »

Rents never fell during the recession matey

They most certainly did. I own a rental property in D1 and prior to the recession was reviving 1500 per month. In 08 that went to 1200 and in 09 went to 900. Also the turnaround was much longer.

Here is more information on it https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/2mds96/rental_prices_in_dublin_through_the_recession/

bop1977

wandererz wrote: »

In terms of the OP's original title:
"Leo will go down as one of this countries greatest ever..."

Perhaps greatest in terms of :

Being Taoiseach then Tainaiste then Taoiseach again.
(Pulling a Putin)

Has anyone done that before?

Or been a two time Taoiseach?

And then limiting an incumbent opposition Taoiseach to just two years.

Yes a few of the old lads were in and out of office. Dev 4 times, John a Costello twice. Jack lynch twice, haughey three times and finally Garrett Fitzgerald twice.

Pawwed Rig

wandererz wrote: »

Being Taoiseach then Tainaiste then Taoiseach again.
(Pulling a Putin).

Putin did it to get around constitutional term limits. There are none for being Taoiseach so not really a good comparison.
This is not even the first time that there will be 2 Taoiseach planned under the same government.

ittakestwo

paw patrol wrote: »

He hasn't done anything of note.
I don't think he is a great taoiseach but he hasn't done anything terrible either. Apart from , he shat the working folk who he promised to help - his "people who get up early" quote. he rewarded the welfare class over the middle class.


But there was nothing great about his reign either almost Paschal Donohoe like in his steady but boring capacity



He leaves us now in the hole for his covid largesse , while you may cheer him now , the working people will be paying that bill for years at the expense of our school, hospitals etc... or higher tax on....the working person AGAIN

"He rewarded the welfare class over the middle"

This is something you hear when people are giving out about the government but is factually wrong. Welfare payments have not been increased over the last few years. The dole today is lower than it was in 2009. The welfare class would also be relying on social housing which is obviously being underspent over the last few years

No matter what government we have and no matter what they do, they will always have the chestnut criticism of "welfare class got rewarded and middle class got nothing" which in this case is factually wrong. Working class got nothing under FG.

Is this some sort of game people play. Most people do work and are middle class so we just say we got nothing and everybody else got something even when its factually wrong. Cheer each other on in believing our lives is one big struggle of pushing a juggernaut up a hill.

joeguevara

ittakestwo wrote: »

"He rewarded the welfare class over the middle"

This is something you hear when people are giving out about the government but is factually wrong. Welfare payments have not been increased over the last few years. The dole today is lower than it was in 2009. The welfare class would also be relying on social housing which is obviously being underspent over the last few years

No matter what government we have and no matter what they do, they will always have the chestnut criticism of "welfare class got rewarded and middle class got nothing" which in this case is factually wrong. Working class got nothing under FG.

Is this some sort of game people play. Most people do work and are middle class so we just say we got nothing and everybody else got something even when its factually wrong. Cheer each other on in believing our lives is one big struggle of pushing a juggernaut up a hill.

But if you look at the increase of the social welfare budget while Fine Gael are in power it is over 1.5 billion at about 22 billion. This is the biggest proportion of the budget. On the other hand there was no reduction in USC, no tax reduction and an actual increase. The phased payment of social welfare has increased. So stop suggesting that it’s a fallicy that welfare were not rewarded but the middle class were. Not true.

Contributions to rent allowance for people on social welfare also increase dramatically as well as medical cards.

Hannibal36

joeguevara wrote: »

But if you look at the increase of the social welfare budget while Fine Gael are in power it is over 1.5 billion at about 22 billion. This is the biggest proportion of the budget. On the other hand there was no reduction in USC, no tax reduction and an actual increase. The phased payment of social welfare has increased. So stop suggesting that it’s a fallicy that welfare were not rewarded but the middle class were. Not true.

Contributions to rent allowance for people on social welfare also increase dramatically as well as medical cards.

On paper it looks like that but in reality that is not what happened,the Hap scheme was a work for the upper classes to use the poorest Irish for profit.

They have been paying way over the odds to B&B owners and private Landlords with the right connections for substandard accommodation.They could have built plenty of houses with the money they have been throwing at the HAP scheme where families are living in 1 and 2 rooms with the government paying out over 100 a night per room.

Its a genius move on some levels,it pits Irish classes against each other,the middle class believe they are housing the lower classes in luxury the lower classes are extremely bitter to be living in sub standard housing and moved around constantly for profit,while they see all the immigrants get the forever houses.

joeguevara

Hannibal36 wrote: »

On paper it looks like that but in reality that is not what happened,the Hap scheme was a work for the upper classes to use the poorest Irish for profit.

They have been paying way over the odds to B&B owners and private Landlords with the right connections for substandard accommodation.They could have built plenty of houses with the money they have been throwing at the HAP scheme where families are living in 1 and 2 rooms with the government paying out over 100 a night per room.

Its a genius move on some levels,it pits Irish classes against each other,the middle class believe they are housing the lower classes in luxury the lower classes are extremely bitter to be living in sub standard housing and moved around constantly for profit,while they see all the immigrants get the forever houses.

But you have attributed any benefits to the upper class not the middle class. So effectively Social Welfare highest budget, increase of billions, Hap or rental supplements to pay for accommodation or huge BB costs but still a benefit, but no decrease in tax for middle class but an increase.

So again, increased benefits and budget for social welfare but a net decrease in income for middle class. Immigrants in forever houses. Well I’m not sure if that’s true, I think 95% of immigration is from the EU or US. High percentage of these would be working and not receiving social welfare and not entitled to housing. Anyone who is is on Social welfare which you cannot differentiate on their origin. So again, how is it a lie that welfare lost and middle class gained.

Hannibal36

joeguevara wrote: »

But you have attributed any benefits to the upper class not the middle class. So effectively Social Welfare highest budget, increase of billions, Hap or rental supplements to pay for accommodation or huge BB costs but still a benefit, but no decrease in tax for middle class but an increase.

So again, increased benefits and budget for social welfare but a net decrease in income for middle class. Immigrants in forever houses. Well I’m not sure if that’s true, I think 95% of immigration is from the EU or US. High percentage of these would be working and not receiving social welfare and not entitled to housing. Anyone who is is on Social welfare which you cannot differentiate on their origin. So again, how is it a lie that welfare lost and middle class gained.

The immigrants are getting the houses imo and there is a large percentage of them not working also,but obviously proving it on boards or trying to is a pointless endeavour.

But at the end of the day everyone lost bar the elite class,the middle class and the lower classes all took a massive hit in quality of life over the last number of years and so many Irish people working here right now do not realise how poor their quality of life is compared to most other western nations.

They have just accepted a sub standard lifestyle as it has become the norm and plenty of them never lived abroad to realise the kind of quality of life their qualifications would bring them in any other western country.

ittakestwo

joeguevara wrote: »

But if you look at the increase of the social welfare budget while Fine Gael are in power it is over 1.5 billion at about 22 billion. This is the biggest proportion of the budget. On the other hand there was no reduction in USC, no tax reduction and an actual increase. The phased payment of social welfare has increased. So stop suggesting that it’s a fallicy that welfare were not rewarded but the middle class were. Not true.

Contributions to rent allowance for people on social welfare also increase dramatically as well as medical cards.

You say welfare budget has increased by €1.5bn to €22bn over the last few years. And then you give the main reason why by saying rent allowances have risen dramatically( which ends up in landlords pockets and not the working class) Rents have risen dramatically over the last few years so if the government are still going to house people then it will have to spend more here. Unless they choose a new policy of not housing people and have them on the streets they are going to have to cough up here and give the private landlord more out of the welfare budget.

The fact is the dole has not increased. Its lower than what it was over 10 years ago so it is factually right by saying the working class has not got "everything " like people suggest.

joeguevara

ittakestwo wrote: »

You say welfare budget has increased by €1.5bn to €22bn over the last few years. And then you give the main reason why by saying rent allowances have risen dramatically( which ends up in landlords pockets and not the working class) Rents have risen dramatically over the last few years so if the government are still going to house people then it will have to spend more here. Unless they choose a new policy of not housing people and have them on the streets they are going to have to cough up here and give the private landlord more out of the welfare budget.

The fact is the dole has not increased. Its lower than what it was over 10 years ago so it is factually right by saying the working class has not got "everything " like people suggest.

I never said that. I said that it was incorrect that social welfare lost and middle class gained. I also am unsure as to whether the dole is less now than in 2009. There are different phased payments. But it is still a fact that middle class have to pay more tax and get less pay and also have to pay rent or a mortgage out of that less pay.

ittakestwo

joeguevara wrote: »

I never said that. I said that it was incorrect that social welfare lost and middle class gained. I also am unsure as to whether the dole is less now than in 2009. There are different phased payments. But it is still a fact that middle class have to pay more tax and get less pay and also have to pay rent or a mortgage out of that less pay.

Funny, because if you read my initial post I never said welfare class got nothing and middle class got everything which you presumed. I said welfare class got nothing after an earlier poster claimed they got all the increases at the expense of the middle class over the last few years which is a much spouted fallacy.

Hannibal36

joeguevara wrote: »

I never said that. I said that it was incorrect that social welfare lost and middle class gained. I also am unsure as to whether the dole is less now than in 2009. There are different phased payments. But it is still a fact that middle class have to pay more tax and get less pay and also have to pay rent or a mortgage out of that less pay.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all,the middle class is getting screwed in a big way in this country but it i just would take issue with your belief that the money has been housing the welfare class.That is why i would advice anybody with any qualifications and of a reasonable young age to test abroad if they haven't already,quality of life is shocking here for the middle class.Often people with very good qualifications accepting such a poor standard of life.Its not the same in any western nation.

Things haven't been rosy for a lot of the poorest Irish,basically used like meat for profit,moved from one place to another while the taxpayer forks out absolutely shocking prices,if people only knew the kind of prices they been paying to landlords for places that they would never get rented.

I mean the place is covered in boarded up properties and the government is acting like there is nowhere to house people and paying shockingly over the odds to their cronie landlords with portfolios of sub standard accommodation.That is where the middle class tax is going,into their pockets.

joeguevara

ittakestwo wrote: »

Funny, because if you read my initial post I never said welfare class got nothing and middle class got everything which you presumed. I said welfare class got nothing after an earlier poster claimed they got all the increases at the expense of the middle class over the last few years which is a much spouted fallacy.

I didn’t presume anything. You said welfare got nothing under FG and you said it’s factually wrong that middle class didn’t benefit. It’s not really an issue in the grand scheme of things and I am of the opinion that welfare should be increasing and everyone assisted. But I think it’s important especially with increasing divides not to be fuelling a belief that is incorrect,

joeguevara

Hannibal36 wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with that at all,the middle class is getting screwed in a big way in this country but it i just would take issue with your belief that the money has been housing the welfare class.That is why i would advice anybody with any qualifications and of a reasonable young age to test abroad if they haven't already,quality of life is shocking here for the middle class.Often people with very good qualifications accepting such a poor standard of life.Its not the same in any western nation.

Things haven't been rosy for a lot of the poorest Irish,basically used like meat for profit,moved from one place to another while the taxpayer forks out absolutely shocking prices,if people only knew the kind of prices they been paying to landlords for places that they would never get rented.

I mean the place is covered in boarded up properties and the government is acting like there is nowhere to house people and paying shockingly over the odds to their cronie landlords with portfolios of sub standard accommodation.That is where the middle class tax is going,into their pockets.

Totally agree

The Bishop Basher

Leo was slightly more competent as a leader then his predecessor but he will still an appalling Taoiseach.

His lack of empathy for anyone “beneath” him was blatant and shone through everything he did particularly when he reneged on his election promises to look after those of us who get up early in the morning.

Like all narcissists, he was far more interested in his twitter profile then he was in making any difficult decisions and he will go down in history as another failed Taoiseach who just happened to get lucky with events towards the end.

I don’t believe this sham of a coalition will last long enough for us to see him back in the top role thankfully. This latest government has been built of a sham, designed only to keep SF away from any chance at governing and very large portion of the electorate feel that their mandate was excluded and ignored. This coalition is built on dishonesty from the get go and this shadow will hang over them and everything they do for as long as they keep desperately clinging to power.

What Leo fails to realise is that he doesn’t get to decide for the rest of us, who is a “real party” or not. That’s for the electorate to decide Leo. Ignore them at your peril.

His arrogance and lack of empathy will be his lasting trademarks and this country will be a better country without him at the helm.

ittakestwo

joeguevara wrote: »

I didn’t presume anything. You said welfare got nothing under FG and you said it’s factually wrong that middle class didn’t benefit. It’s not really an issue in the grand scheme of things and I am of the opinion that welfare should be increasing and everyone assisted. But I think it’s important especially with increasing divides not to be fuelling a belief that is incorrect,

To my initial post you said

"So stop suggesting that it’s a fallicy that welfare were not rewarded but the middle class were. Not true"

You did presume I said the middle class was rewarded which I did not.I said the working class has not been rewarded under FG which is the much quoted fallacy.