Paddy Holohan reinstated to Sinn Féin.

Ronin247 · 27-06-2020 4:44pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

The FFG thing is getting a bit tired? What are you talking about, it’s more relevant now than ever

Edgware wrote: »

If we have FFG we can have SFTWP (Sinn Fein the Whingers Party)

The Sinn Fein/IRA was a tired label but I like SFTWP. I often used to defend/support Sinn Fein in my younger days, but since they became the main opposition they have become a bunch of moanyholes.

James Brown · 27-06-2020 4:51pm

He's no business in any office.

James Brown · 27-06-2020 4:55pm

Edgware wrote: »

If we have FFG we can have SFTWP (Sinn Fein the Whingers Party)

You should look at all the feverish bitter nasty posts from the 'anyone criticises Fine Gael is a shinner!' Camp.
It's something to behold. All over every thread chomping at the bit to spew bile.
One would have thought they'd all be discussing their new government and celebrating big brother FF keeping them on.
Holohan has no business in office IMO. He's a gilly.
This is his second thread.
Still no thread for FG councillor O'Leary admiring the Blueshirts and likening their resolve to FG today.

thecomedian · 27-06-2020 4:56pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

When you look at the people who have brought destruction to Europe you will notice that it has been spearheaded by people with no children. Merkel has no children, Macron doesn't, May doesn't. Varadkar doesn't. So wanting someone with some stake in the future of the Country isn't racist or homophobic or any other -ist or -phobe.

Varadkar has proven in recent weeks that he clearly has no love for the Irish or Irish culture. So its no unquestionable to question his loyalty and condemn his lack of loyalty given his position.

So going by that you probably think Trump is great!

Zebra3 · 27-06-2020 4:59pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we got independence. We are now 3rd worldwide in the Human Development Index. That happened under FF and FG led governments. This tired rhetoric about the Republic being a failed state filled with corruption is just a nonsense.

And remained in poverty for decades under FFFG governments who pandered to an organisation run by child rapists.

James Brown · 27-06-2020 5:02pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

SF are an open and progressive party.
You have to remember back when Gerry Mccabes killer was released it was Martin who had the compassion to go and collect the lad.
They are the same with Paddy he did wrong but the past is in the past.

SF own and are proud of their past and much of
the IRA's I'd imagine. It's who they are. Talking like it's hidden or a secret is pointless.
Holohan is an ejit. He made a poor point badly. He's nobody i'd vote for.

Hamsterchops · 27-06-2020 6:10pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we got independence. We are now 3rd worldwide in the Human Development Index. That happened under FF and FG led governments. This tired rhetoric about the Republic being a failed state filled with corruption is just a nonsense.

I agree with you, but it did take many decades post independence to become successful. We were a failed and corrupt state through the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, right up till the 1990s, then a glimmer appeared, and the beginnings of a new economy slowly emerged in the mid 1990s, finally turning into the Celtic tiger economy........

There was a good seventy or eighty years were we were to all intents and purposes a Banana Republic.

Cut to 2020 and this Republic of ours is anything but "a failed state filled with corruption". We are a modern and dynamic country with a healthy economy - thanks to successive governments.

expectationlost · 29-06-2020 11:40am

what were the other councillors thinking? (other then nominating a full member and councillor in their party) were they trying to be bolshy, show support for him?

expectationlost · 29-06-2020 11:42am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think the Sinn Féiners around Tallaght are major Paddy Holohan lickarses. Obviously a major disconnect in the party as Mary Lou would never have let this fly.

It definitely calls into question the calibre of people they have in the ranks at grass roots. The optics of this move are quite poor and they obviously didn't even consider it.

by grassroots you mean their other councillors...

blanch152 · 29-06-2020 11:51am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well I don't know for definite, I imagine they will rectify it. If they do rectify it you will criticise them for "sanctioning from above" and if they don't rectify it you will criticise them for not rectifying it.

You're probably an FFGer, doesn't really matter what they do you'll criticise. Your party took Verona Murphy into the fold and then threw her out (correctly) when she played the race card to get attention. Was that "sanctioning from above"?

I think the relevant point is that Verona Murphy was thrown out (correctly) but that Paddy Holohan wasn't (incorrectly).

Until Sinn Fein correct that, they are open to accusations of condoning homophobia, racism and misogyny. The problem they have is that a large number of their voters share Holohan's views.

Hannibal36 · 29-06-2020 12:04pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I agree with you, but it did take many decades post independence to become successful. We were a failed and corrupt state through the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, right up till the 1990s, then a glimmer appeared, and the beginnings of a new economy slowly emerged in the mid 1990s, finally turning into the Celtic tiger economy........

There was a good seventy or eighty years were we were to all intents and purposes a Banana Republic.

Cut to 2020 and this Republic of ours is anything but "a failed state filled with corruption". We are a modern and dynamic country with a healthy economy - thanks to successive governments.

I found this funny i have to say.Where is this republic you speak of?I wouldn't mind going there it sounds great.

The one i live in,absolutely is a borderline failed state.I think you need to spend a few days around the courthouses see how things work for the common man seeking justice,or maybe step down from your ivory towers and go for a walk among the great unwashed.

landofthetree · 29-06-2020 12:14pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

And remained in poverty for decades under FFFG governments who pandered to an organisation run by child rapists.

Cheered on by IRA scum like Sean South.

ChikiChiki · 29-06-2020 12:21pm

expectationlost wrote: »

by grassroots you mean their other councillors...

Yes, other councillors. Such a disconnect as O'Broin did not even know about it. What a shambles.

TheCitizen · 29-06-2020 5:35pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I think the relevant point is that Verona Murphy was thrown out (correctly) but that Paddy Holohan wasn't (incorrectly).

Until Sinn Fein correct that, they are open to accusations of condoning homophobia, racism and misogyny.

I think Holohan was suspended, but I agree he should be thrown out. The views he expressed were ridiculous.

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem they have is that a large number of their voters share Holohan's views.

There are some FG voters who would have held similar views to what Verona Murphy expressed. There's Plenty of Right wing head bangers that used to vote or still vote FG down the years.

However at the risk of being accused of "sanctioning from above" SF leadership do need to show leadership on this in my opinion. They can't be holding a pluralist progressive line on the one hand while allowing someone like Holohan express opposite views as a SF representative on the other.

BTW was looking back at the timeline for Murphy's exclusion from FG. She ran as a FG candidate in the by election after and despite her controversial comments. She didn't win the by election seat.

A few months later when she appeared to doubled down on her original stance re migrants after initially apologising which allowed her to remain on the By Election FG ticket, she was subsequently deselected by FG for the General Election which happened soon after. She then ran as an Indo and won the seat in the GE.

One wonders if she had won the by election seat would that have saved for from the FG axe or given her a little more wriggle room.

https://www.thejournal.ie/verona-murphy-fine-gael-4939070-Dec2019/

James Brown · 29-06-2020 5:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I think the relevant point is that Verona Murphy was thrown out (correctly) but that Paddy Holohan wasn't (incorrectly).

Until Sinn Fein correct that, they are open to accusations of condoning homophobia, racism and misogyny. The problem they have is that a large number of their voters share Holohan's views.

Or Varadkar accepted his apology and everyone moved on. I wouldn't vote for him. I don't even vote for o'snodaigh and he's my local SF lad. But it wasnt a big enough issue despite your pretend protestations.

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 11:41am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I agree with you, but it did take many decades post independence to become successful. We were a failed and corrupt state through the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, right up till the 1990s, then a glimmer appeared, and the beginnings of a new economy slowly emerged in the mid 1990s, finally turning into the Celtic tiger economy........

There was a good seventy or eighty years were we were to all intents and purposes a Banana Republic.

Cut to 2020 and this Republic of ours is anything but "a failed state filled with corruption". We are a modern and dynamic country with a healthy economy - thanks to successive governments.

The changes made to make us a success were opposed by the left.

Eg Joining the then EEC.
The Fianna Fáil government and Fine Gael called for a ‘Yes’ vote. The Labour Party, trade unions and Sinn Féin campaigned for a ‘No’ vote. Turnout in the referendum was 70.9 % and the result was an overwhelming 83.1% result for the ‘Yes’ campaign.

Lower corpo tax
As late as 2006:

Corporation taxes are not "punitive" and should rise to 17 per cent as part of a wider programme of tax reform, according to a major review by Sinn Féin of its economic policies.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/corporation-tax-should-rise-to-17-sinn-fein-1.1000969

The hard left have also been opposed to free trade (just like their friend Trump)

http://old.guengl.eu/policy/action/jefta

maccored · 30-06-2020 1:48pm

landofthetree wrote: »

The changes made to make us a success were opposed by the left.

Eg Joining the then EEC.
The Fianna Fáil government and Fine Gael called for a ‘Yes’ vote. The Labour Party, trade unions and Sinn Féin campaigned for a ‘No’ vote. Turnout in the referendum was 70.9 % and the result was an overwhelming 83.1% result for the ‘Yes’ campaign.

Lower corpo tax
As late as 2006:

Corporation taxes are not "punitive" and should rise to 17 per cent as part of a wider programme of tax reform, according to a major review by Sinn Féin of its economic policies.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/corporation-tax-should-rise-to-17-sinn-fein-1.1000969

The hard left have also been opposed to free trade (just like their friend Trump)

http://old.guengl.eu/policy/action/jefta

Wait til the multis are pulled to a different country with low taxes - or back to the states.

Truthvader · 30-06-2020 1:54pm

By Sinn Fein standards a few offensive comments seems hardly worth the fuss

maccored · 30-06-2020 2:24pm

Truthvader wrote: »

By Sinn Fein standards a few offensive comments seems hardly worth the fuss

i'd prefer the odd offensive comment than downright lies

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 2:37pm

maccored wrote: »

Wait til the multis are pulled to a different country with low taxes - or back to the states.

How many indigenous companies would have been successful without access to the EU markets and low corpo tax?

Or free trade deals outside the EU?

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Zebra3 · 30-06-2020 2:46pm

landofthetree wrote: »

The hard left have also been opposed to free trade (just like their friend Trump)

http://old.guengl.eu/policy/action/jefta

The right are just as opposed to free trade.

Please list the markets that are free trade.

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 2:52pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

The right are just as opposed to free trade.

Please list the markets that are free trade.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements
The far right and the far left in the EU parliament have objected to every free trade deal the EU has completed.

Ireland has never elected a far right MEP but loads on the left.

The group SF are in includes communists.

Niallof9 · 30-06-2020 3:00pm

Ronin247 wrote: »

So it wasn't sanctioned from above but "they" will rectify it. Kinda saying that everything is sanctioned from above according to my reading.

yeah exactly. everything is run from above. its as clear as bloody day

paw patrol · 30-06-2020 3:07pm

the RIC debacle and now more recently the pandering to the twitter mob over the statue in Fairview of Sean Russell. I don't know if leo is just a gob****e or he just doesn't feel our culture and history. Maybe he is just a west brit or being a career politican since very young has erased any passion from him.

in short, Hoolhan has a point on leo.
He shouldn't have backed down.

blanch152 · 30-06-2020 3:15pm

paw patrol wrote: »

the RIC debacle and now more recently the pandering to the twitter mob over the statue in Fairview of Sean Russell. I don't know if leo is just a gob****e or he just doesn't feel our culture and history. Maybe he is just a west brit or being a career politican since very young has erased any passion from him.

in short, Hoolhan has a point on leo.
He shouldn't have backed down.

The bit in bold is exactly the kind of low-level back-handed casual racism that gives the internet and these boards a bad name.

Next someone will be in saying he doesn't understand families because he doesn't have children.

What you are trying to say is that he doesn't feel our culture and history in the way that you believe it should be felt. It is a typical exclusionist philosophy common to the Irish nationalist mentality, and is no less racist for that. The foundation stone of all nationalist movements is that somehow we are different to the other, it is a foundation stone that they share with racism. Sinn Fein and their followers with their republican ideology are no different.

Truthvader · 30-06-2020 3:15pm

paw patrol wrote: »

the RIC debacle and now more recently the pandering to the twitter mob over the statue in Fairview of Sean Russell. I don't know if leo is just a gob****e or he just doesn't feel our culture and history. Maybe he is just a west brit or being a career politican since very young has erased any passion from him.

in short, Hoolhan has a point on leo.
He shouldn't have backed down.

Oh deary me....................

Zebra3 · 30-06-2020 3:33pm

landofthetree wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements
The far right and the far left in the EU parliament have objected to every free trade deal the EU has completed.

Ireland has never elected a far right MEP but loads on the left.

The group SF are in includes communists.

What free trade deals?

What markets are now free?

Ireland has elected loads of right wing MEPs.

paw patrol · 30-06-2020 3:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The bit in bold is exactly the kind of low-level back-handed casual racism that gives the internet and these boards a bad name.

if you say so.

I laid out my point , I felt it was cutting but fair. If you think that's racist then so be it.
Are you denying that a person can be Irish in a legal and civic sense but no feeling for Ireland? Similar to the west-brit jibe I heard when I was young
Why is wrong to suggest this of Leo? Or only wrong cos of his heritage .? But that would be different strokes for different folks? is that not racist in itself?

blanch152 wrote: »

What you are trying to say is that he doesn't feel our culture and history in the way that you believe it should be felt.

yes. But not just me.
He is ignorant on these matters which are important to a huge proportion of irish society.
Lets take the Sean Russell thing (which i'll accept happened post holohan 's comments but the point remains) - he said

“We have a few of our own statues we may need to think about. There is a statue in Fairview Park in Dublin of an Irish republican man who was also a Nazi collaborator… I think any statues that come down should come down legally… let’s not engage in violence.”

Its such an ignorant comment with no appreciation for the actual history of ireland and our struggle for independence.
And secondly that he would seek to suggest we may remove a historical statue based on the whim of the twitter mob. That's lame.

It is a typical exclusionist philosophy common to the Irish nationalist mentality, and is no less racist for that. The foundation stone of all nationalist movements is that somehow we are different to the other, it is a foundation stone that they share with racism. Sinn Fein and their followers with their republican ideology are no different.

But you need to elaborate more than just calling people racist. B
Yes we are different from others. I'd rather live in Ireland than anywhere else and being Irish is the best. It really is. If that makes me racist , then so be it. You won't make me feel bad for it.

But I'm not sure how that is racist in the prejudice sense...of course you (and others) seem to cast a wide net that anything is racist these days. So I dunno.

I don;t vote shin fein if it means anything to you so your SF digs are wasted on me.

blanch152 wrote: »

Next someone will be in saying he doesn't understand families because he doesn't have children.

well he can't understand to the degree somebody with kids does.
I've never met anybody who told you they understood having a family before their kids came along. It's just not possible.

I know what point you are trying to make. But it makes no sense - you are trying to suggest we are all things but we are not. It isn't possible to know something without experiencing it.

Let discuss another way - I have 1 close gay friend but I know sweet fa about being gay despite my few occasions to visit the George.

paw patrol · 30-06-2020 3:46pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Oh deary me....................

cutting.:rolleyes:

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 3:49pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

What free trade deals?

What markets are now free?

Ireland has elected loads of right wing MEPs.

I said Ireland has never elected a far right MEP which is true. No Irish MEP has joined a far right group in the Parliament.

The right of centre MEPs we have elected were all pro free trade.

SF PBP Sol(Obviously PBP sol don't currently have an MEP) and their grouping in the European parliament were opposed to free trade with Japan.

Paddy Holohan reinstated to Sinn Féin.

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