Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

Gruffalux

A male who identifies as a woman is a transwoman.
A male-bodied self identifying transwoman is not a woman for the purposes of sport. Otherwise mediocre males will make off with the sporting prizes and scolarships and recognition that top class female athletes deserve.
A male bodied self identifying transwoman is not a woman for the purposes of shared accommodation in rape shelters, female prisons and open plan changing facilities for logical rational safe guarding purposes.
A male bodied self identifying transwoman is not a woman if a female prefers a woman doctor or strip searcher.
A male bodied self identifying transwoman is not a woman who can call themselves a lesbian and insist it is bigotry for young female lesbians not to accept their penis.

Given the above exceptions and more, which are only reasonable, and given that many transwomen openly avow they are not women but rather transwomen, I think the only rational thing any person can do is reject the ludicrous ideological mantra that transwomen are women.

Transwomen and transmen deserve and need rights, respect, protection, courtesy etc but not at the expense of sex based reality.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh ok. So you agree with the people who say that gay people aren't real men/women? That it is up for interpretation? What a strange example to use to prove your point.

And no, it's not "I am man, I will tell you what is woman" (veiled accusation of the ever hilarious mansplaining accusation). I'm explaining (,not mansplaining) that you cannot will yourself to be something you are not. You can pretend and you can live your life however you want. But not everyone has to deny reality and biology to cater for your whim.

Steady on with the huge leaps there Superman. Saying that people say things does not = I agree. Unless of course one feels the need to twist things to try and make a 'point'.
Which is sad really. Shows a lack of a genuine point to make.

And yes - what Linehan did was exactly that - he decided he gets to decide who is and who is not a woman and then claimed he was acting to protect women. He did it by doxxing, insulting, accusing, calling on his followers to pile on people.

Funny how many knights in shining armour there are ready to 'protect women' from Trans people but how few there are when a woman uses #metoo or #Ibelieveher to say a 'biological' man has threatened them.

A person would suspect that this 'protecting women' line is just a whim.

Bannasidhe

keano_afc wrote: »

Nope, I merely asked a biological male to define what makes him a woman.

You acted the dick and got abuse in return and now you are whinging.
Ok.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Gender and biological sex are not interchangeable terms, but too many people treat them as if they are.

You can be biologically of the male sex but identify to the female gender.

There are important philosophical and practical differences between the two. A person, who to all intents and purposes is of the female gender, but was born biologically a male cannot by treated by a gynecologist.

There are other, less obvious, distinctions as well. Yet, the wish of a person to be considered female must also be respected. Finding a balance should be a consensual and considered discussion, rather than one based on conflict and shouting others down.

But like, was this not all a sleight of hand in the first place separating the meaning of gender from sex?..

ohnonotgmail

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Steady on with the huge leaps there Superman. Saying that people say things does not = I agree. Unless of course one feels the need to twist things to try and make a 'point'.
Which is sad really. Shows a lack of a genuine point to make.

And yes - what Linehan did was exactly that - he decided he gets to decide who is and who is not a woman and then claimed he was acting to protect women. He did it by doxxing, insulting, accusing, calling on his followers to pile on people.

Funny how many knights in shining armour there are ready to 'protect women' from Trans people but how few there are when a woman uses #metoo or #Ibelieveher to say a 'biological' man has threatened them.

A person would suspect that this 'protecting women' line is just a whim.

the venn diagram of posters who are defending Linehan and who are opposed to #metoo #ibelieveher is a perfect circle.

keano_afc

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You acted the dick and got abuse in return and now you are whinging.
Ok.

Your interpretation of being a dick differs from reality.

Funny, that.

seamus

Sir Oxman wrote: »

BiB
Twitter apparently used that against GL as well.
No evidence proferred.
There's a big problem right now, if only people could recognise it.

Linehan was at it for months, and was found out a large number of times.

He has also been involved in doxxing plenty of individuals and has had restraining orders taken out against him for harassment.

He'd been outed a number of times trying to chat up trans women on Twitter and other platforms, and getting abusive and degrading when he was shot down.

Whatever your own personal issues with trans gender people, Linehan is definitely the wrong horse to back. Because of his actions, his wife has left him, his entire family have abandoned him, and his best friends and co-writers staged an elaborate intervention to try and pull him away from his obsessiveness.

Remember "Fr. Ted - The Musical"? Yeah, Arthur Mathews and Neil Hannon agreed to do that with Linehan in the hopes that he might be able to focus his mind and get him back to normality. That's why we've heard nothing about it since it was "nearly finished" two years ago; because Linehan doubled-down on his crazy and alienated his friends.

Even the loudest terfs who were initially the ones to push him on, have told him to get to fvck and stop trying to be a spokesman for women's rights. That's how toxic and insane Linehan has become.

Linehan's downfall is not due to "cancel culture", "PC gone mad", or "radical liberal trans activists". It's down to a man clearly falling into a spiral of mental illness and using his position and past works to amplify hateful and violent messages.

Bannasidhe

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the venn diagram of posters who are defending Linehan and who are opposed to #metoo #ibelieveher is a perfect circle.

Amazing isn't it.

A Tale of two Tweets:

" 'Trans' made me uncomfortable in the Ladies loo" = we believe her. It's outrageous. Men in the women's toilets with their penis' out in a locked cubicle. They're all the same. Just pretending to be women so they can assault real women.

"I was raped" = false accusation. Not all men are rapists. Why is she posting this on social media??? Why didn't she go to the police. This could ruin an innocent man's life.

Gatling

seamus wrote: »

Linehan was at it for months, and was found out a large number of times.

He has also been involved in doxxing plenty of individuals and has had restraining orders taken out against him for harassment.

He'd been outed a number of times trying to chat up trans women on Twitter and other platforms, and getting abusive and degrading when he was shot down.

Whatever your own personal issues with trans gender people, Linehan is definitely the wrong horse to back. Because of his actions, his wife has left him, his entire family have abandoned him, and his best friends and co-writers staged an elaborate intervention to try and pull him away from his obsessiveness.

So are these just antidotal claims or can all this be varifed first I've heard about them.

But then again I'm not a Twitter user

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

So are these just antidotal claims or can all this be varifed first I've heard about them.

But then again I'm not a Twitter user

here is one example that resulted in him receiving a police warning. i'm sure you can find many more.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/oct/07/graham-linehan-police-warning-complaint-by-stephanie-hayden-transgender-activist-twitter

hetuzozaho

seamus wrote: »

Remember "Fr. Ted - The Musical"? Yeah, Arthur Mathews and Neil Hannon agreed to do that with Linehan in the hopes that he might be able to focus his mind and get him back to normality. That's why we've heard nothing about it since it was "nearly finished" two years ago; because Linehan doubled-down on his crazy and alienated his friends.

It's going ahead though? I heard him on a podcast last month talking about needing theatres opening and dropping some jokes. Are Matthews and Hannon not involved anymore?

Gruffalux

Bannasidhe wrote: »

"I was raped" = false accusation. Not all men are rapists. Why is she posting this on social media??? Why didn't she go to the police. This could ruin an innocent man's life.

It could though.
How about do not post rape or sex assault allegations on Twitter? Simple.

Also do not doxx or abuse on Twitter as per Linehan.

2 wrongs do not make a right. Nor does it include someone in the strange venn diagram. That is illogical emotionalism.

Linehan being an arse also does not invalidate the criticism of gender theory.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/twitter-closes-graham-linehan-account-after-trans-comment-1.4290547?mode=amp

Isn't this just censorship rather than protecting anyone?

That's what it looks like to me.

It's perfectly fine for someone like Trump to spew his hatred on the platform every day of the week but when it comes to debate on social issues action is taken.

He went far beyond questioning.

Smith152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Amazing isn't it.

A Tale of two Tweets:

" 'Trans' made me uncomfortable in the Ladies loo" = we believe her. It's outrageous. Men in the women's toilets with their penis' out in a locked cubicle. They're all the same. Just pretending to be women so they can assault real women.

"I was raped" = false accusation. Not all men are rapists. Why is she posting this on social media??? Why didn't she go to the police. This could ruin an innocent man's life.

It is possible to believe that women are more at risk by not having women only spaces and yet at the same time acknowledge that not all men accused of rape are actually rapists.

That's the problem with the world these days everyone has to put into a neat little bracket and nuance when discussing topic doesn't seem to be allowed anymore.

Gruffalux

Smith152 wrote: »

It is possible to believe that women are more at risk by not having women only spaces and yet at the same time acknowledge that not all men accused of rape are actually rapists.

That's the problem with the world these days everyone has to put into a neat little bracket and nuance when discussing topic doesn't seem to be allowed anymore.

You said it.

The burden of proof is a fundamental linchpin in a civilised democracy. It protects us all from chaos and wrongful accusation. I have huge sympathy for raped people. It is a vile crime next only to murder. Rape, like all crime, has a burden of proof requirement and #ibelieveher or chants like that are misguided.

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1277232577313755136?s=19


Thought to share this which summarises research on the so called Dutch model. Outcomes are worse for girls post pubertal blockers. Note most going to GID clinics are now girls. 96% continue to cross sex hormones. Body issues and all problems continue. Dutch model was based on tiny numbers and scarcity of follow up studies anywhere.
Considering that the cross sex hormones gives girls irreversible body and facial hair, male pattern baldness and deepened voices that do not revert, and that is without considering all the other side deeper effects like shriveled wombs and menopausal symptoms, I just do not know how affirmation ever could have possibly been considered sane.

Hard to take the research of someone running a secret Twitter account which makes nasty jokes about trans people seriously.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

Hard to take the research of someone running a secret Twitter account which makes nasty jokes about trans people seriously.

Haha. And the actual study in the journal?

LLMMLL

Smith152 wrote: »

It is possible to believe that women are more at risk by not having women only spaces and yet at the same time acknowledge that not all men accused of rape are actually rapists.

That's the problem with the world these days everyone has to put into a neat little bracket and nuance when discussing topic doesn't seem to be allowed anymore.

That's not what the poster is criticising. They were pointing out that people who criticise the use of individual cases of bad male behaviour to portray a greater problem in general male behaviour are only too happy to believe that made uppy stories on Twitter about cis men using trans rights to perv on women are symptomatic of a wider safety problem.

Ekerot

I think the problems started when people began putting their preferred pronouns in their Twitter bios

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

Haha. And the actual study in the journal?

Did you read it? There's no control group and a tiny number of participants. But given that 96% are going on to take cross sex hormones, it seems likely that the issue is not that they regret taking puberty blockers. It's that they felt the puberty blockers did not go far enough.

Slim Charles

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

God, the more I hear about this the more I'm glad that I only use Twitter to follow artists. Can't imagine what it must be like to come under the gaze of one man's insane crusade against people he (really, really) doesn't like.

How do people even end up like that? What possesses someone to vomit that kind of bile into the public? I don't think I'll ever understand it.



Nah, we are. It's the right that's drifted further to the right, as evinced by the extremely angry objections when you dare point out that neo-Nazis do, in fact, exist and maybe shouldn't be excused.

You're on a whole different level of delusion.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

Did you read it? There's no control group and a tiny number of participants. But given that 96% are going on to take cross sex hormones, it seems likely that the issue is not that they regret taking puberty blockers. It's that they felt the puberty blockers did not go far enough.

Oh dear. The WHOLE point is the small number in the Dutch study. Such a tiny number to base affirmation medicalisation on. And the WHOLE other point was that the natal females were worse off no matter what they did, pubertal blockers, cross sex hormones etc they still had all the issues they had before- just increased in severity. And the 96% is to show that the line given that pubertal blockers are a holding phase while the child figures out what they want is a mistruth since most go on...and suffer irregardless.

How do you feel about your frontal lobes LLMMLL? Are you glad they had a chance to properly develop in puberty and that your IQ did not take a hit? I sure am glad mine had the chance to mature.

AndrewJRenko

Ekerot wrote: »

I think the problems started when people began putting their preferred pronouns in their Twitter bios

Yeah, why can't they stay in the closet and STFU. It's outrageous that these people are out in public, being who they really are.:rolleyes

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

Oh dear. The WHOLE point is the small number in the Dutch study. Such a tiny number to base affirmation medicalisation on. And the WHOLE other point was that the natal females were worse off no matter what they did, pubertal blockers, cross sex hormones etc they still had all the issues they had before- just increased in severity. And the 96% is to show that the line given that pubertal blockers are a holding phase while the child figures out what they want is a mistruth since most go on...and suffer irregardless.

How do you feel about your frontal lobes LLMMLL? Are you glad they had a chance to properly develop in puberty and that your IQ did not take a hit? I sure am glad mine had the chance to mature.

I feel great about my frontal lobes Gruffakox thank you.

Unfortunately, if the WHOLE point is that these studies are too small to draw.conclusions, then how can you also say that one of those.conclusions is the WHOLE other point. It's a 100% contradiction and frankly quite strange.

But I'll indulge the contradiction for a moment. You must be pleased to see the positive effects of puberty blockers in teenage transmen.

Sir Oxman

seamus wrote: »

Whatever your own personal issues with trans gender people, Linehan is definitely the wrong horse to back. Because of his actions, his wife has left him, his entire family have abandoned him, and his best friends and co-writers staged an elaborate intervention to try and pull him away from his obsessiveness.

I have zero issues with anyone personally, so kindly reign in your pointy finger. (It's difficult I know, it's so the in thing)
Is this a game to you? Who backs who? I back their points if they are cogent and factual.





My point (why I replied to keano's post) is the concentration of such immense power in a handful of mega companies.
That never works out well.

It's not dissimilar to the power of newspapers/media increasingly concentrated in the hands of very few monolithic companies/conglomerates.


I don't tend to take much notice of hyperbolic accusations of 'hateful' and 'violent' when those two descriptors are routinely thrown about like confetti.
I don't tend to buy gossip mags either that trade on an individual's *private circumstances.
*Sources may not always be accurate - particularly when it passes through many filters.

ohnonotgmail

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I have zero issues with anyone personally, so kindly reign in your pointy finger. (It's difficult I know, it's so the in thing)
Is this a game to you? Who backs who? I back their points if they are cogent and factual.





My point (why I replied to keano's post) is the concentration of such immense power in a handful of mega companies.
That never works out well.

It's not dissimilar to the power of newspapers/media increasingly concentrated in the hands of very few monolithic companies/conglomerates.


I don't tend to take much notice of hyperbolic accusations of 'hateful' and 'violent' when those two descriptors are routinely thrown about like confetti.
I don't tend to buy gossip mags either that trade on an individual's *private circumstances.
*Sources may not always be accurate - particularly when it passes through many filters.

what do you think twitter should do with a user that harassed an individual on twitter sufficient for them to be issued a police warning? is that hyperbole to you?

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

I feel great about my frontal lobes Gruffakox thank you.

Unfortunately, if the WHOLE point is that these studies are too small to draw.conclusions, then how can you also say that one of those.conclusions is the WHOLE other point. It's a 100% contradiction and frankly quite strange.

But I'll indulge the contradiction for a moment. You must be pleased to see the positive effects of puberty blockers in teenage transmen.

Well Im glad you agree with me that the so called Dutch method of affirmation was backed by a study that was far too small to draw proper conclusions.

Your point about transmen escapes me unfortunately. I see in the UK that Keira Bell is suing Tavistock for their hasty hormonal treatment of her. It is probably why the NHS is rather hastliy drawing up the bridges on treatment of children.

ohnonotgmail

Smith152 wrote: »

seamus wrote: »

Whatever your own personal issues with trans gender people, Linehan is definitely the wrong horse to back. Because of his actions, his wife has left him, his entire family have abandoned him, and his best friends and co-writers staged an elaborate intervention to try and pull him away from his obsessiveness.

QUOTE]

If that is indeed true (and I suspect it isn't) then it reflects very badly on his family rather than on Linehan himself.

his behaviour reflects on him or do you think he should be absolved of all blame for his behaviour?

Smith152

seamus wrote: »

Whatever your own personal issues with trans gender people, Linehan is definitely the wrong horse to back. Because of his actions, his wife has left him, his entire family have abandoned him, and his best friends and co-writers staged an elaborate intervention to try and pull him away from his obsessiveness.

If that is indeed true (and I suspect it isn't) then it reflects very badly on his family rather than on Linehan himself.

Smith152

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Smith152 wrote: »

his behaviour reflects on him or do you think he should be absolved of all blame for his behaviour?

Who is absolving him of blame.

Most people have just pointed out that they agree with what he is saying.