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Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

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    #452
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gruffalox wrote: »

    It is why campaigns for toilets for females only take place all over the planet. It is why women got their own spaces in the first place. Safeguarding.

    No. That is not why women created women only spaces.
    We were not given them.
    It is not a case of we 'got' them.
    We made them for ourselves so we could get a break from men telling us what women are, what women can and cannot do, etc etc.

    And in a great many women created women only spaces the criteria is 'identifies as female'.

    If you think it was about 'safeguarding', and toilets, it just shows your profound lack of understanding of feminist history.


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    #453
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    No. That is not why women created women only spaces.
    We were not given them.
    It is not a case of we 'got' them.
    We made them for ourselves so we could get a break from men telling us what women are, what women can and cannot do, etc etc.

    And in a great many women created women only spaces the criteria is 'identifies as female'.

    If you think it was about 'safeguarding', and toilets, it just shows your profound lack of understanding of feminist history.

    I find you extremely contradictory. How about you have any male who identifies as a woman in your female space and I fight as a woman for the protection of my sex based spaces. Let us do our own thing.
    I know females rape by the way.
    And I am not a feminist. I like men. I seek EQUALITY only. Feminism is a movement that seriously lost its way.


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    #454
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    I find you extremely contradictory. How about you have any male who identifies as a woman in your female space and I fight as a woman for the protection of my sex based spaces. Let us do our own thing.
    I know females rape by the way.
    And I am not a feminist. I like men. I seek EQUALITY only. Feminism is a movement that seriously lost its way.

    This why 3rd spaces are the best solution, although unfortunately not always practical.


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    #455
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    I'm not dealing with your ultra deconstructionist 'tables of exemplars' rubbish again. We are discussing humans, unless you think trans-people aren't human?

    I never said anything about humans or non humans. No idea what you're talking about.


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    #456
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    why dont you contact twitter and ask them why they dont? i dont see the need myself. I find following the "dont be a dick" rule to be sufficient to avoid trouble.


    Careful now, the 'don't be a dick' rule can expand and contract at merely one person's whim.


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    #457
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Careful now, the 'don't be a dick' rule can expand and contract at merely one person's whim.

    not for me it hasn't and i've done ok on social media.


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    #458
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I never said anything about humans or non humans. No idea what you're talking about.

    I've no idea what you are talking about. You quoted me. We are talking about trans-people who are human. I defined what a female was, a human female. Whether the word female is used in other contexts to, for example, distinguish between screw sockets is neither here nor there.


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    #459
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    This why 3rd spaces are the best solution, although unfortunately not always practical.

    I agree. They are not impracticable. We do not have to hew them out of the rock with our finger nails.

    By the way for others to know it was a transwoman called Morgane Ager who got the Vancouver Womens Refuge shut down last year because it would not accommodate male bodied people. 1200 women were thus left without a service because one man who identifies as a woman decided. Fcuk that **** all to way to the hob of hell if that is the new feminism.


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    #460
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    I agree. They are not impracticable. We do not have to hew them out of the rock with our finger nails.

    By the way for others to know it was a transwoman called Morgane Ager who got the Vancouver Womens Refuge shut down last year because it would not accommodate male bodied people. 1200 women were thus left without a service because one man who identifies as a woman decided. Fcuk that **** all to way to the hob of hell if that is the new feminism.

    I meant impracticable is a business sense. They may not have the room or funds to create them.


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    #461
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    I've no idea what you are talking about. You quoted me. We are talking about trans-people who are human. I defined what a female was, a human female. Whether the word female is used in other contexts to, for example, distinguish between screw sockets is neither here nor there.

    Female is used outside of science all the time and is synonymous with woman.

    Anti trans activists try to pretend that female.is some kind of protected scientific term that only scientists use and only refers to cis women. That's just not the case.


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    #462
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    I meant impracticable is a business sense. They may not have the room or funds to create them.

    I suppose so. I knew what you meant and was agreeing basically. Funds can be made available. I think so anyway.


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    #463
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    What are you talking about? The anonymous twitter account it's not that website. That website has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
    It wasn't clear.


    Is Michael Biggs in the 'can of history' or can this study stand on it's own legs is the only question.
    If not, does the original Dutch study stand up.



    And yes, I know who he is.


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    #464
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Female is used outside of science all the time and is synonymous with woman.

    Anti trans activists try to pretend that female.is some kind of protected scientific term that only scientists use and only refers to cis women. That's just not the case.

    Yes it is synonymous with woman. You've just argued against your own World-view.

    A trans-woman isn't a woman because they aren't female. I'm glad you finally understand.


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    #465
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Female is used outside of science all the time and is synonymous with woman.

    Anti trans activists try to pretend that female.is some kind of protected scientific term that only scientists use and only refers to cis women. That's just not the case.

    Well, yeah. You'd be surprised how many people argue otherwise.


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    #466
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Genuine request: does anyone have a link handy that would explain why women get so riled up about trans women?

    I really cant make sense of it or understand it at all.


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    #467
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Yes it is synonymous with woman. You've just argued against your own World-view.

    A trans-woman isn't a woman because they aren't female. I'm glad you finally understand.

    A trans woman is a woman and is female. No need to out makey uppy words in my mouth.


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    #468
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Genuine request: does anyone have a link handy that would explain why women get so riled up about trans women?

    I really cant make sense of it or understand it at all.

    Google transphobia


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    #469
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    I find you extremely contradictory. How about you have any male who identifies as a woman in your female space and I fight as a woman for the protection of my sex based spaces. Let us do our own thing.
    I know females rape by the way.
    And I am not a feminist. I like men. I seek EQUALITY only. Feminism is a movement that seriously lost its way.

    I too find you extremely contradictory.

    Your views are those of a TERF but you are not a feminist.

    You seem to believe feminists don't like men, does that include the one's married to men and the mother's of sons??. Can men be feminists?

    Do you not think we already have EQUALITY? If not how do you suggest we seek it? It it something we will get given to us or something we will achieve? Is liking men (whatever that means) a precondition or can we dislike men and still get EQUALITY?

    You don't appear to understand that 'rape' is a legal term and the only way women could rape is if they are a pre-op transwoman but you don't think they are women therefore women can't 'rape' - they can, and do, commit sexual assault.

    I'm not sure it's feminism that is lost tbh.


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    #470
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Genuine request: does anyone have a link handy that would explain why women get so riled up about trans women?

    I really cant make sense of it or understand it at all.

    Noone gets riled up by trans-women. They get riled up by trans-activists and their unscientific nonsense. The two are not the same.


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    #471
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Genuine request: does anyone have a link handy that would explain why women get so riled up about trans women?

    I really cant make sense of it or understand it at all.

    Because some people are protective about sex specific rights and or sex specific areas where they are only permitted and think that it is wrong to enable the opposite sex into such areas or take advantage of sex specific rights they should not be afforded.

    And some people think acknowledgement of actual basic biology is better than capitulation to spare the feelings of others.


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    #472
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    It wasn't clear.


    Is Michael Biggs in the 'can of history' or can this study stand on it's own legs is the only question.
    If not, does the original Dutch study stand up.



    And yes, I know who he is.

    Well it depends if people want to cherry pick bits from the study or not.

    As in:

    - claim decisions should not be made based on small studies
    - promote a negative result for puberty blockers from a small study
    - diminish a positive result for pubeety blockers from the same survey
    - ignore further data that provides context for the negative result which is actually provided in the study they both promote and diminish.


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    #473
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭tigger123


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Noone gets riled up by trans-women. They get riled up by trans-activists and their unscientific nonsense. The two are not the same.

    Ok. I think its safe to say then that they are riled up by trans women wanting to share bathrooms and what not.

    I'm trying to understand where that feeling is coming from.


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    #474
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    You don't appear to understand that 'rape' is a legal term and the only way women could rape is if they are a pre-op transwoman but you don't think they are women therefore women can't 'rape' - they can, and do, commit sexual assault.

    I'm not sure it's feminism that is lost tbh.

    Hahaha. Jesus, specific about the meaning and definition of the word rape, yet loosey goosey when it comes to woman and man.


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    #475
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A trans woman is a woman and is female. No need to out makey uppy words in my mouth.

    Hot dogs are dogs.


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    #476
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭tigger123


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Because some people are protective about sex specific rights and or sex specific areas where they are only permitted and think that it is wrong to enable the opposite sex into such areas or take advantage of sex specific rights they should not be afforded.

    And some people think acknowledgement of actual basic biology is better than capitulation to spare the feelings of others.

    I can maybe see the gender specific spaces bit, but I'm not sure its precious enough to be denied to trans women.

    But the idea that they're taking advantage of gender rights is a bit off.

    If I, as one gender, enjoy specific rights due to the gender, that is in no way diminished by someone else identifying as that gender also enjoying those rights.


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    #477
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Ok. I think its safe to say then that they are riled up by trans women wanting to share bathrooms and what not.

    I'm trying to understand where that feeling is coming from.

    They get riled up by the idea that someone can just proclaim themselves to be trans or a women and have access to such spaces. Some get riled up by biological men being able to compete in women only sports, or being housed with female inmates (some of whom have been sexually assaulted as a result), take female only scholarships, the complete denial that these people for have that sex exists, or that it isn't an effective binary etc.


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    #478
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Noone gets riled up by trans-women. They get riled up by trans-activists and their unscientific nonsense. The two are not the same.

    And have posters here encountered issues with trans women in womens spaces in day to day Ireland?

    I've never heard any of the women in my life bring this up, and we all love to complain to each other :)

    It seems to be just an argument being had on Twitter about these female spaces? Or are there confrontations happening in changing rooms around Ireland?


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    #479
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A trans woman is a woman and is female. No need to out makey uppy words in my mouth.

    No they aren't. You're just trying to wiggle out of your Freudian slip which acknowledged this.

    Nice that you think females are 'makey uppey' though. Talk about denying people their existence. Anyway, have the last word. I'm not wasting anymore of my time with your ultra-deconstructionist, unscientific, disingenuous balderdash.

    Goodnight and goodluck.


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    #480
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hahaha. Jesus, specific about the meaning and definition of the word rape, yet loosey goosey when it comes to woman and man.

    Hahahahaha
    I'm going by the terms as defined in Irish legislation in both instances so am I being loosey goosey or are the people who want to make up their own terms?
    HAHAHAHAHAHA.


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    #481
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    You don't appear to understand that 'rape' is a legal term and the only way women could rape is if they are a pre-op transwoman but you don't think they are women therefore women can't 'rape' - they can, and do, commit sexual assault.

    According to the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990, rape is defined as "a sexual assault that includes":
    (a) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or

    (b) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

    Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/section/4/enacted/en/html#sec4

    Clearly the law states that any woman (or anyone of any sex or gender) can commit rape under the second definition.


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