Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

CtevenSrowder

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

It's the UK, granted, but very silly to think it's improbable.

I'm sure I could get you a couple of local incidents but sure just Google it. I don't particularly want it coming up in my search history.

Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.

Read: Biological males are five times more likely... Who would've thought it!

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

It's the UK, granted, but very silly to think it's improbable.

I'm sure I could get you a couple of local incidents but sure just Google it. I don't particularly want it coming up in my search history.

I just googled "Irish prison transgender attack" and nothing. Can you suggest some search terms?

What other effects has there been of self Id in Ireland similar to your TD example?

Like if self id is so awful there must be loads right?

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I just googled "Irish prison transgender attack" and nothing. Can you suggest some search terms?

What other effects has there been of self Id in Ireland similar to your TD example?

Like if self id is so awful there must be loads right?

They haven't happened.. yet. Why do you think the trans-prisoner in Limerick has 2 guards following them at all times?

It's about preventing these things from happening before it's too late.

Bannasidhe

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You cannot change sex, however. Do you agree with this statement?

I think that long before Graham Linehan and Twitter there were people who went through horrendous experiences in order to live in the body that was of the gender they believed they were and people do not do that on a whim.
There are people born with both sets of genitals - and always have been - where doctors arbitrarily assigned a 'sex' . It is estimated that as many as 1 in 2,000 children born every year are 'intersex' https://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

There is a village in the Dominican Republic where upon entering puberty some of the children develop a penis - before that they look female. They are known as "Guevedoces" and they naturally 'change sex'. Until it happens the children are all considered female.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34290981#:~:text=The%20discovery%20of%20a%20small,of%20people%2C%20writes%20Michael%20Mosley.

So no. I do not agree with that statement.
And neither does the scientific evidence.
Gender is not as cut and dried as people like to make out. 'Mistakes' happen.

Bannasidhe

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Are you saying judgement and abuse are the same thing here?

Are you saying tweeting a transgender woman to tell them they are really a man isn't abusive?

CtevenSrowder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think that long before Graham Linehan and Twitter there were people who went through horrendous experiences in order to live in the body that was of the gender they believed they were and people do not do that on a whim.
There are people born with both sets of genitals - and always have been - where doctors arbitrarily assigned a 'sex' . It is estimated that as many as 1 in 2,000 children born every year are 'intersex' https://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

There is a village in the Dominican Republic where upon entering puberty some of the children develop a penis - before that they look female. They are known as "Guevedoces" and they naturally 'change sex'. Until it happens the children are all considered female.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34290981#:~:text=The%20discovery%20of%20a%20small,of%20people%2C%20writes%20Michael%20Mosley.

So no. I do not agree with that statement.
And neither does the scientific evidence.
Gender is not as cut and dried as people like to make out. 'Mistakes' happen.

I didn't ask about gender. I asked about sex. So, I repeat the question, do you believe one can change their sex?

hetuzozaho

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

They haven't happened.. yet. Why do you think the trans-prisoner in Limerick has 2 guards following them at all times?

It's about preventing these things from happening before it's too late.

And what are you proposing is done?

We have self id.
We have the gaurds keeping an eye on the prisoners. Is that what you mean by stopping before too late. Or are you proposing undoing the self id law?

CtevenSrowder

hetuzozaho wrote: »

And what are you proposing is done?

We have self id.
We have the gaurds keeping an eye on the prisoners. Is that what you mean by stopping before too late. Or are you proposing undoing the self id law?

I think they should be put in prison with those that correspond to their sex. Another trans-prisoner requires another 2 guards to follow them, 4 trans prisoners requires 8 guards for each prisoner. This is detrimental to the safety of other prisoners. That is not sustainable. I believe one should only be able to self-id as the opposite gender once they have fully transitioned.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I just googled "Irish prison transgender attack" and nothing. Can you suggest some search terms?

What other effects has there been of self Id in Ireland similar to your TD example?

Like if self id is so awful there must be loads right?

Ah I've updated my post for you. This one is a from the law society

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Funny, when I googled what you did, I got articles about a trans sex offender going into women's prison.

A person with charges of sexual assaults against women and children being housed in a women's prison... What could go wrong

And you'd be the first to bang on about how rape and sexual assaults are often unreported. So the lack of news coverage isn't indicative of it not happening by your own metric.

Also, a trans person gaining a promotion or a scholarship designed for the opposite sex is not going to make the newspapers here, but doesn't mean that it a glaring loophole that needs closing.

Gruffalux

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think that long before Graham Linehan and Twitter there were people who went through horrendous experiences in order to live in the body that was of the gender they believed they were and people do not do that on a whim.
There are people born with both sets of genitals - and always have been - where doctors arbitrarily assigned a 'sex' . It is estimated that as many as 1 in 2,000 children born every year are 'intersex' https://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

There is a village in the Dominican Republic where upon entering puberty some of the children develop a penis - before that they look female. They are known as "Guevedoces" and they naturally 'change sex'. Until it happens the children are all considered female.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34290981#:~:text=The%20discovery%20of%20a%20small,of%20people%2C%20writes%20Michael%20Mosley.

So no. I do not agree with that statement.
And neither does the scientific evidence.
Gender is not as cut and dried as people like to make out. 'Mistakes' happen.

There is a significant movement among intersex people to not be conflated with transgenderism. It is profoundly wrong to compare them. In their own opinion.

Also approx 5% of transwomen have surgical reassignment. 95% do not.

Self ID requires nothing. No horrendous experiences.

Bannasidhe

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I didn't ask about gender. I asked about sex. So, I repeat the question, do you believe one can change their sex?

That is a loaded question I feel.

One could argue they are the same thing or alternately that sex is the act and gender is the term used to define if a person is male or female.

What is the difference between them in the context you are using the terms?

Bannasidhe

Gruffalox wrote: »

There is a significant movement among intersex people to not be conflated with transgenderism. It is profoundly wrong to compare them. In their own opinion.

Also approx 5% of transwomen have surgical reassignment. 95% do not.

Self ID requires nothing. No horrendous experiences.

Did I compare them? No.
Do stop looking to get outraged on other people's behalf.

I pointed out that 'gender' is not as cut and dried as people like to make out.
Some people are born both but grow up to feel they are one or the other - and that may not be the one assigned to them.

Other people literally do not know until puberty if they will have the genitalia of a male or a female as adults.

It really isn't as simple as vagina= female not matter how much people want to say it is.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stark wrote: »

Stupid analogy. "Deadnaming" is more akin to an adult calling a gay person a ****** than it is to schoolyard teasing. It's something done deliberately to cause hurt/offence by people who are old enough to know what they're doing.

Okay. Then did nobody win the decathlon at the 1976 Olympics? You’re presenting dead-naming as an egregious insult but is it really so egregious to say Bruce Jenner won the decathlon at the 1976 Olympics”? The record books say Bruce, not Caitlyn. Like really, that’s a grave insult? To highlight a huge achievement of Jenner’s?

CtevenSrowder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That is a loaded question I feel.

One could argue they are the same thing or alternately that sex is the act and gender is the term used to define if a person is male or female.

What is the difference between them in the context you are using the terms?

Loaded question? Yes, because you know the answer is no. You cannot change your sex. I'm talking of sex, biological sex. Even the case that you linked re the Dominican Republic:

When Imperato-McGinley investigated the Guevedoces she discovered the reason they don't have male genitalia when they are born is because they are deficient in an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase, which normally converts testosterone into dihydro-testosterone.

This deficiency seems to be a genetic condition, quite common in this part of the Dominican Republic, but vanishingly rare elsewhere. So the boys, despite having an XY chromosome, appear female when they are born. At puberty, like other boys, they get a second surge of testosterone. This time the body does respond and they sprout muscles, testes and a penis.

The people are biologically male. I fail to see how it backs up anything you said. They can have operations to remove their penis that eventually develops, take hormones, but they are still biologically male. Likewise trans-people (trans-women in this context).

ELM327

Sex = biological definition
Gender = social construct.

You can change your gender but you cannot change your sex.

Gruffalux

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did I compare them? No.
Do stop looking to get outraged on other people's behalf.

I pointed out that 'gender' is not as cut and dried as people like to make out.
Some people are both with both but grow up to feel they are one or the other - and that may not be the one assigned to them.

Other people literally do not know until puberty if they will have the genitalia of a male or a female as adults.

It really isn't as simple as vagina= female not matter how much people want to say it is.

You are talking about intersex people.

hetuzozaho

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I think they should be put in prison with those that correspond to their sex. ..I believe one should only be able to self-id as the opposite gender once they have fully transitioned.

If you transitioned (from man to woman) and self id'd are you saying the person should go to the male or female prison?

Gruffalux

hetuzozaho wrote: »

If you transitioned (from man to woman) and self id'd are you saying the person should go to the male or female prison?

Self ID does not require transition. Of any kind.

suicide_circus

ELM327 wrote: »

Sex = biological definition
Gender = social construct.

I don't even complete buy this argument. Sex and gender align in the overwhelming majority of cases.

hetuzozaho

Gruffalox wrote: »

Self ID does not require transition. Of any kind.

I know

keano_afc

suicide_circus wrote: »

I don't even complete buy this argument. Sex and gender align in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Agreed. If "gender" is assigned at birth then it has to fit inside certain parameters. You cant assign something that is socially constructed to a newborn infant.

Gender: ideology
Sex: immutable

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe it is. I also believe that allowing people to self ID and failure for people to differentiate between the two sexes makes men, women, gender inequality stats, anything sex related, invalid

Really?

The percentage of trans people of the population is completely insignificant statistically wise 422 Have GRAs since the end of 2018 and the 2016 population is 4.76 Million so we are talking about roughly 0.009% of the population. I dont how such a small percentage invalidates any statistics.

CtevenSrowder

hetuzozaho wrote: »

If you transitioned (from man to woman) and self id'd are you saying the person should go to the male or female prison?

Imo, the law should be that one goes to prison based on their gender however, one should only be able to change their gender once they have gone through a full transition.

This is not presently the case however. As such, if it has to be black and white, people should be imprisoned with others who correspond to their sex.

If we can have nuance, one should be imprisoned with those who correspond to their sex, unless they have fully transitioned in which case they can be imprisoned with those who are of the sex the trans-person ascribes to be.

hetuzozaho

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Imo, the law should be that one goes to prison based on their gender however, one should only be able to change their gender once they have gone through a full transition.

Perfect I understand you now.

LLMMLL

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

They haven't happened.. yet. Why do you think the trans-prisoner in Limerick has 2 guards following them at all times?

It's about preventing these things from happening before it's too late.

So we have had self id for years and nothing has happened yet.....

But we must be fearful of the consequences of self Id.....

Right......

Gruffalux

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Really?

The percentage of trans people of the population is completely insignificant statistically wise 422 Have GRAs since the end of 2018 and the 2016 population is 4.76 Million so we are talking about roughly 0.009% of the population. I dont how such a small percentage invalidates any statistics.

1 in 50 men in UK prisons identifies as a transwoman
1 in 10 traveler men in UK prisons identifies as a transwoman.

Now either transwomen are exceptionally prone to crime and especially exceptionally prone to being criminally inclined travelers, or else people are attempting to abuse a legal loophole.
Which according to some never happens.

suicide_circus

keano_afc wrote: »

Agreed. If "gender" is assigned at birth then it has to fit inside certain parameters. You cant assign something that is socially constructed to a newborn infant.

Gender: ideology
Sex: immutable

ah don't go pulling at that thread trying to find consistencies

Annasopra

suicide_circus wrote: »

I don't even complete buy this argument. Sex and gender align in the overwhelming majority of cases.

So basically you don't believe trans people exist?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Steady on with the huge leaps there Superman. Saying that people say things does not = I agree. Unless of course one feels the need to twist things to try and make a 'point'.
Which is sad really. Shows a lack of a genuine point to make.

And yes - what Linehan did was exactly that - he decided he gets to decide who is and who is not a woman and then claimed he was acting to protect women. He did it by doxxing, insulting, accusing, calling on his followers to pile on people.

Funny how many knights in shining armour there are ready to 'protect women' from Trans people but how few there are when a woman uses #metoo or #Ibelieveher to say a 'biological' man has threatened them.

A person would suspect that this 'protecting women' line is just a whim.

Bannasidhe, if that’s what you think, at least have the courage of your convictions and say that it’s what you think, not some unnamed ‘person’.

And your assertion is not correct for me personally. Biological female. Have had many things happen to me in my life that have highlighted my vulnerability as a member of the female sex class.

suicide_circus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So basically you don't believe trans people exist?