Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

LLMMLL

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is the issue of women's sport also a non existent loophole?

What's happening in Ireland with women in sport. Who holds the Irish records or championship titles in various Irish sports. How has self id changed that in Ireland?

jam_mac_jam

LLMMLL wrote: »

What's happening in Ireland with women in sport. Who holds the Irish records or championship titles in various Irish sports. How has self id changed that in Ireland?

I see. Don't answer so.

Eric Cartman

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then all those children in the Dominican Republic who grow a penis when puberty starts are female?

what ? I'm not googling 'Dominican Republic children penis' so you're going to have to explain this one to me.

Annasopra

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

No-one is forcing it. They can have surgery or they cannot, it's up to them. There is nothing preventing them living their life as the gender they choose. If they do not, it will not be recognised legally.

Unless we find some other way of, for example, preventing biological males in women's spaces. I'm all ears. None is forthcoming.

What do you propose exactly? Or is it a case of women just having to suck it up? I won't hold my breath waiting for answer to these questions. We both know you won't answer them.

Sorry no. That is forcing by saying they cant have legal recognition until they have surgery. Nah. Thats a totally abusive idea to force surgery for legal recognition and is definitely not something that could be done because its an abuse of human rights.

Gruffalux

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As an example of how gender/biological sex is not a simple matter of what genitalia a person is born with - but you know that don't you.

All you are doing now is trying to take umbrage on other people's behalf by claiming I said something I didn't say.

Not very honest debating tactic now is it?

I am not taking umbrage on anyone's behalf. I am honestly fighting my own battle as a woman against gender theorists and bullies.

And as regards your correction comment previously how does that explain the growing community of detransitioners, thousands of whom share shocking stories on reddit/detrans. How does your correction assertion explain the medical specialists from Tavistock Gender Clinic on a BBC Newsnight program last week saying that parental homophobia was driving many cases of child medicalisation.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

hetuzozaho wrote: »

If you transitioned (from man to woman) and self id'd are you saying the person should go to the male or female prison?

Male prison as even after medical transition, most of the strength gained by going through a male puberty is retained. And there’s no reason to believe that transition means the transgender woman will fit there on out display female pattern criminality rather than male.

Gatling

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Forcing surgery despite the fact most trans people dont have surgery and cant have surgery

Any many revert back to their original gender .

What makes someone trans then is it basically a feeling ?

LLMMLL

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I see. Don't answer so.

Yeah I like to know the issues before i rush to judgement. I guess I'm weird.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That is saying you cant get a gender recognition cert until you have had surgery e.g. Forcing surgery despite the fact most trans people dont have surgery and cant have surgery

I certainly wouldn’t expect anyone to get surgery they don’t want. I don’t think people should have to medically or surgically transition. However I do think that people who don’t medically or surgically transition should not be allowed to use sex-segregated facilities. Why are their rights more important than other peoples?

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

How does your correction assertion explain the medical specialists from Tavistock Gender Clinic on a BBC Newsnight program last week saying that parental homophobia was driving many cases of child medicalisation.

This is multiple medical specialists currently working for Tavistock?

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I suggest we punish people who commit abuse the same way we always have done. It’s not that the legislation is poorly thought out at all, as it’s intended to protect people from unlawful discrimination, not to enable people to commit abuse. What you’re suggesting is the equivalent of arguing that because there are some people who use marriage as a means to abuse people, we should prohibit everyone from being able to enter into marriage, just in case like.

That a massive false equivalence. It is not just sexual abuse or abuse at all. It is the fact that with the self ID law anybody can claim to be any gender and this has issues with sports, sex specific activities, sex specific changing areas, sex specific anything.

But now that you mention it, it is ridiculous that someone can "legally" change their gender easier than it is to get married or divorced in this country. I could become a wife to my wife before I could become single.

Bannasidhe

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Can people stop with this stupidity?

I’m a biological woman, as are other posters here voicing concerns.

Here’s the thing: any biological woman who has no problem with sharing facilities with transgender women loses nothing either way.

Biological women who do have a problem with it have something to lose and are afraid to speak about it in real life. Anonymity on forums like this is all we have really. And even on here, we are assumed to be men.



You know that many creepy to downright criminal things that happen to women and especially girls are never told to anyone, right? I’m sorry, but are you waiting for something awful to happen? Trusting that nothing has never happened because we’ve never heard about it is hopelessly naive. And I’m more interested in prevention.

You quite possibly already shared a facility with a transgender woman and never even known it. That's how threatening the threat is.

As awful as transgender women being beaten to death?
331 last year up to Nov.
10 in Europe incl UK.

Since 2008 3314 transgender people were murdered for being transgender. Often in the most horrific brutal way.

Something awful is already happening, it has been for decades. It's happening to the people who are being called 'a threat'.

So no - I will never stand on the same side of a line where the brutal killers of people who just wanted to feel comfortable in their own bodies stand.
They are the same hate filled bigot who screamed gay plague 30 years ago.
They are the same hate filled bigots who carry out 'corrective rape' on lesbians.

Everyone here makes their choice where they stand. I stand with transgendered people and against hate.
Every single time.

And on that note people of all genders I have said what I have to say so I will leave you all to it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Really?

The percentage of trans people of the population is completely insignificant statistically wise 422 Have GRAs since the end of 2018 and the 2016 population is 4.76 Million so we are talking about roughly 0.009% of the population. I dont how such a small percentage invalidates any statistics.

Yeah, but nobody is going to be able to demand to see somebody’s GRC in sex-segregated facilities. So it doesn’t really matter how many people actually have one.

In my hometown, there were two blatant pesterers of women. One would paw and grope any woman or girl who walked past them at any time of the day, the other would come into the shop I worked in every day to ask me what colour knickers I was wearing. I was 17. They were both totally brazen. There is no doubt in my mind that either of these (now deceased) men would exploit self-ID laws. No doubt. They carried on being disgusting without any shame at all. They could not control themselves.

Now, this was a really small town where everyone knew them and gave them a wide berth. Or squared up to them like my father did when the grabber went for my mother. But what about slightly bigger towns or cities where the degenerates are NOT known to everybody? Degenerate exploits the fact that a GRC cannot be demanded of anybody and the woman or girl faced with them doesn’t know them and cannot confront them. You really think a scenario like this is impossible?

LLMMLL

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, but nobody is going to be able to demand to see somebody’s GRC in sex-segregated facilities. So it doesn’t really matter how many people actually have one.

In my hometown, there were two blatant pesterers of women. One would paw and grope any woman or girl who walked past them at any time of the day, the other would come into the shop I worked in every day to ask me what colour knickers I was wearing. I was 17. They were both totally brazen. There is no doubt in my mind that either of these (now deceased) men would exploit self-ID laws. No doubt. They carried on being disgusting without any shame at all. They could not control themselves.

Now, this was a really small town where everyone knew them and gave them a wide berth. Or squared up to them like my father did when the grabber went for my mother. But what about slightly bigger towns or cities where the degenerates are NOT known to everybody? Degenerate exploits the fact that a GRC cannot be demanded of anybody and the woman or girl faced with them doesn’t know them and cannot confront them. You really think a scenario like this is impossible?

There's no doubt in my mind that neither of those.men would have used self id laws.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That a massive false equivalence. It is not just sexual abuse or abuse at all. It is the fact that with the self ID law anybody can claim to be any gender and this has issues with sports, sex specific activities, sex specific changing areas, sex specific anything.

Well you were talking about women being victims of abuse in prisons, and now you’re onto anything else you can throw in. It wasn’t a false equivalence at all, it was a direct analogy by way of demonstrating that equality legislation is not formed to enable people to commit abuse, it’s to protect people from unlawful discrimination.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But now that you mention it, it is ridiculous that someone can "legally" change their gender easier than it is to get married or divorced in this country. I could become a wife to my wife before I could become single.

You could certainly claim it, but your new identity would not be recognised in Irish law, and therefore you would not be protected from discrimination -


(2) A person to whom this section applies shall satisfy the following conditions:

(a) subject to section 12 , have attained the age of 18 years on the date he or she makes an application for a gender recognition certificate;

(b) not be married or a civil partner;

(c) comply, as the case may be, with section 10 or 11.


Persons who may apply for a gender recognition certificate

suicide_circus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Since 2008 3314 transgender people were murdered for being transgender. Often in the most horrific brutal way.

where is this? not questioning it just want to get the facts straight

Gatling

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You quite possibly already shared a facility with a transgender woman and never even known it. That's how threatening the threat is.

As awful as transgender women being beaten to death?
331 last year up to Nov.
10 in Europe incl UK.

Since 2008 3314 transgender people were murdered for being transgender. Often in the most horrific brutal way.

So wait 10 deaths in nearly 100 million people living in Europe

What's the evidence that 3000+ people have been murdered for being trans seems quite exaggerated

LLMMLL

Norf FC wrote: »

Lol you think Larry Murphy types won't take advantage?

Yeah I do. Bizarre that people think Larry Murphy is the kind of person who would use self id. People are so mixed up on this.

I think some people watched silence of the lambs and think Buffalo bill was trans and all trans people are Buffalo bill and all serial rapists are trans and buffalo bill. So strange.

Gruffalux

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You quite possibly already shared a facility with a transgender woman and never even known it. That's how threatening the threat is.

As awful as transgender women being beaten to death?
331 last year up to Nov.
10 in Europe incl UK.

Since 2008 3314 transgender people were murdered for being transgender. Often in the most horrific brutal way.

Something awful is already happening, it has been for decades. It's happening to the people who are being called 'a threat'.

So no - I will never stand on the same side of a line where the brutal killers of people who just wanted to feel comfortable in their own bodies stand.
They are the same hate filled bigot who screamed gay plague 30 years ago.
They are the same hate filled bigots who carry out 'corrective rape' on lesbians.

Everyone here makes their choice where they stand. I stand with transgendered people and against hate.
Every single time.

And on that note people of all genders I have said what I have to say so I will leave you all to it.

The stats show fewer trans people are murdered globally per head of population than non trans. Plus by and large trans people are very unfortunately murdered by their intimate partners. It is an emotive argument unfounded in fact. It is horrible for every single person murdered ever, but it is not a cudgel that can be used like suicidal ideation is used to push for medicalisation of gender non conforming children. Even Polly Carmichael, of GIDS UK, who is quite aggressively pro affirmation says suicidal ideation in these children is no more than in non dysphoric teens.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You quite possibly already shared a facility with a transgender woman and never even known it. That's how threatening the threat is.

As awful as transgender women being beaten to death?
331 last year up to Nov.
10 in Europe incl UK.

Since 2008 3314 transgender people were murdered for being transgender. Often in the most horrific brutal way.

Something awful is already happening, it has been for decades. It's happening to the people who are being called 'a threat'.

So no - I will never stand on the same side of a line where the brutal killers of people who just wanted to feel comfortable in their own bodies stand.
They are the same hate filled bigot who screamed gay plague 30 years ago.
They are the same hate filled bigots who carry out 'corrective rape' on lesbians.

Everyone here makes their choice where they stand. I stand with transgendered people and against hate.
Every single time.

And on that note people of all genders I have said what I have to say so I will leave you all to it.

Are you really going to list the statistics for violence against transgender people and not do the same for women?

I’ll say it again, anyone who cites the danger of violence to transgender women whilst dismissing women’s fears is a gigantic hypocrite.

I mean, think about it:

“Transgender women are in danger in men’s facilities!”
“Oh okay, how come?”
“They are in danger of being assaulted or murdered!”
“Okay, what facilities should they use?”
“The women’s facilities.”
“But doesn’t that put male-bodied transgendered women in with women?”
“Yeah but there’s no risk to women there.”
“Wouldn’t transgender women retain most of their male strength and criminality patterns and ALL of their male strength if they just self-ID?”
“.....”

It seems to some that male bodies are only potentially dangerous when transgender women are put at risk. LOL, silly women and their silly fears.

jam_mac_jam

Gatling wrote: »

So wait 10 deaths in nearly 100 million people living in Europe

What's the evidence that 3000+ people have been murdered for being trans seems quite exaggerated

I would guess that most transgender women are killed by their partners. As most murders especially of women are.

So it would be difficult to get the statistics on the number of people who are killed for being transgender. Transgender people are at a higher risk of violence though.

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Now, this was a really small town where everyone knew them and gave them a wide berth. Or squared up to them like my father did when the grabber went for my mother. But what about slightly bigger towns or cities where the degenerates are NOT known to everybody? Degenerate exploits the fact that a GRC cannot be demanded of anybody and the woman or girl faced with them doesn’t know them and cannot confront them. You really think a scenario like this is impossible?

What would anyone be confronting anyone for, if they haven’t done anything and aren’t doing any harm to anyone? That sounds like the person harassing them is the problem, not the person being harassed!

A scenario like that is certainly possible. Nothing to do with self-ID though, more to do with placating someone else’s paranoia and punishing an innocent party on that basis.

jam_mac_jam

Norf FC wrote: »

Or men they picked up in bars..

No usually their partners. Very few people are murdered by people they pick up in bars.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No doubt you have seen I already made reference in this thread today to people who claim to be about protecting women from predatory trans women yet would be the same people who cry foul at #metoo when it's predatory cis men are the subject. Those are the people I am referring to. The 'whim' was a reference to the suggestion that people will seek gender re identification on a 'whim'.

Yes, I do think it's a whim -I don't think the loudest voices give a monkeys about protecting women from trans people - they are simply transphobic.

I’m probably one of the loudest voices on these recent threads. Inconveniently female, inconveniently vocal about women’s rights. Do you think I’m transphobic?

At least I consistently care about women’s hard-won SEX-based rights and don’t want to give them away because of naivety and woolly logic.

Gatling

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I would guess that most transgender women are killed by their partners. As most murders especially of women are.

So it would be difficult to get the statistics on the number of people who are killed for being transgender. Transgender people are at a higher risk of violence though.

But yet it's quoted 3000 + were murdered for being trans I've seen other claims of the highest number of suicide was in trans people ,
Seems people can literally make any claim of number of claims about trans persecution but the evidence doesn't seem to back up the claims

LLMMLL

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m probably one of the loudest voices on these recent threads. Inconveniently female, inconveniently vocal about women’s rights. Do you think I’m transphobic?

At least I consistently care about women’s hard-won rights and don’t want to give them away.

Why is it inconvenient that you're a woman? Isn't it generally accepted that TERFs tend to be women?

Quantum Erasure

suicide_circus wrote: »

where is this? not questioning it just want to get the facts straight

Just google 3314 transgender

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then all those children in the Dominican Republic who grow a penis when puberty starts are female?

If they are XY, they are male. With a disorder. Sounds like it sorts itself out. What does this have to do with transgender people? What does this have to do with sex-based rights?

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m probably one of the loudest voices on these recent threads. Inconveniently female, inconveniently vocal about women’s rights. Do you think I’m transphobic?

At least I consistently care about women’s hard-won SEX-based rights and don’t want to give them away because of naivety and woolly logic.

That whole myth was already debunked, but apart from that, nobody would be giving away any rights, they would still have the same rights they always had. Now other people have them too! That’s all has happened.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

No-one is forcing it. They can have surgery or they cannot, it's up to them. There is nothing preventing them living their life as the gender they choose. If they do not, it will not be recognised legally.

Unless we find some other way of, for example, preventing biological males in women's spaces. I'm all ears. None is forthcoming.

What do you propose exactly? Or is it a case of women just having to suck it up? I won't hold my breath waiting for answer to these questions. We both know you won't answer them.

Pretty much, from what I can see. And, yes, you won’t get an answer. No ground can be ceded because things unravel quickly from there.