Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

ELM327

Stark wrote: »

And here we go with "all transgender people are lying".

Please point to where I said that.
Hysteric screeching , hyperbole and strawmanning does not a constructive debate make

Stark

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What do you think about teenagers who regret transitioning but are left with permanently altered bodies?

What do you think about women who regret their abortions?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stark wrote: »

And here we go with "all transgender people are lying".

Are you not mortified to be so obviously misrepresenting people’s posts? You know people can read this thread, right?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stark wrote: »

What do you think about women who regret their abortions?

You first.

Stark

ELM327 wrote: »

Please point to where I said that.
Hysteric screeching , hyperbole and strawmanning does not a constructive debate make

You said that "crisis puberties did not exist". That goes directly against the testimonies of the bulk of the transgender community.

Baggly

ELM327 wrote: »

Please point to where I said that.
Hysteric screeching , hyperbole and strawmanning does not a constructive debate make

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Are you not mortified to be so obviously misrepresenting people’s posts? You know people can read this thread, right?

Mod

The both of you need to improve your posting or stop posting in this thread.

Posters are posting in good faith and engaging with a different viewpoint, and this is being met by accusations and ridicule.

Bonus points for demanding someone answer a question when you have in the last page or two evaded multiple questions.

If you want to keep discussing this topic, discuss it rather than try to 'win' it.

Any issues with that PM me. Otherwise get back on topic. Otherwise I'll start threadbanning people.

ELM327

Stark wrote: »

What do you think about women who regret their abortions?

I think that's their issues and doesnt affect their body. (Mental health of course is different)

Stark wrote: »

You said that "crisis puberties did not exist". That goes directly against the testimonies of the bulk of the transgender community.

Crisis puberties do not exist.
Crisis is an unexpected negative event. Puberty is not unexpected.


{edit for clarification - this was initially posted before I saw the mod warning above}

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

suicide_circus wrote: »

If abortions carried out on minors were done using off label experimental drugs which had unknown consequences for their future fertility, then perhaps a correlation could be drawn alright.

I know. I feel like I’m living in a kind of dystopia sometimes. This will be a future scandal but I feel sad that harm will done before that day comes.

AndrewJRenko

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What do you think about teenagers who regret transitioning but are left with permanently altered bodies?

What do you think about teenagers who regret having abortions but are left with permanently scarred etc etc?

AndrewJRenko

suicide_circus wrote: »

If abortions carried out on minors were done using off label experimental drugs which had unknown consequences for their future fertility, then perhaps a correlation could be drawn alright.

So cancer treatments on minors done using off label experimental drugs are off the table, right?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Go read any of the abortion threads here and search for my posts.



Great straw man.

I purposely stay far away from abortion threads. I got bogged down in one or two before. It is always nasty.

I'm just surprised to hear of someone advocating for abortion until birth.

Anyway, sorry. Slight derail.

Lord Glentoran

Stark wrote: »

What do you think about women who regret their abortions?

Personally, I’d have the manners not to ask them questions confirming my own bias.

suicide_circus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So cancer treatments on minors done using off label experimental drugs are off the table, right?

its not nearly the same

spoonerhead

Is this a free speech argument, or an argument whereby a business decides who uses their platform to produce a message? EG the gay marriage cake case in NI.

Also if say twitter cannot ban individuals based on their opinion, where’s the freedom for twitter to progress their platform?

I’m pro-trans if that means an adult (18 years on) making decisions they feel best for them. Graham made opinions which seemed to revolve around grown sexual predators using this as a way to engage with women. Completely blue sky opinion with little credibility...

Stark

ELM327 wrote: »

Crisis puberties do not exist.
Crisis is an unexpected negative event. Puberty is not unexpected.

Key point is unwanted as opposed to unexpected (i suspect you know this of course and are just trolling/trying to frustrate at this point)

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

suicide_circus wrote: »

its not nearly the same

Aye, I’ve even mentioned cancer drug trials for children on this thread. They are not ideal but the alternative is death. Now the counter to this is usually “But suicide!”. No, sorry, not the same thing. A child with cancer has got out-of-control cells marauding unstoppably around their body. They will 100% die if they are at the point that a drug trial is being suggested. It’s very different indeed.

TomRiddle35

Jeez what the hell happened to Linehan? Aside from his opinions he seems to come across as such an arrogant horrible a**h*le, insufferably ranting on and on, the way he treats people online etc. he doesn't seem like the sort of person you'd want anything to do with on or offline. To think he co-wrote possibly the greatest sitcom of all time! He seemed decent back there in the 90s as well. Or maybe great writers are all troubled a**h*les. One things for certain, he's a great writer no more.

AndrewJRenko

suicide_circus wrote: »

its not nearly the same

You're right, it's not the same. I understand it's not unusual for off label drugs to be used during cancer treatment with children. They're not tested or certified with children, because of the relatively small numbers of such cases. Sometimes, they offer the best chance of survival. And I've heard of similar approaches with other conditions, using adult drugs with children. I don't think the 'off-label' issue is that unusual, and it seems to be dragged up here as a tactic more than anything else.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Aye, I’ve even mentioned cancer drug trials for children on this thread. They are not ideal but the alternative is death. Now the counter to this is usually “But suicide!”. No, sorry, not the same thing. A child with cancer has got out-of-control cells marauding unstoppably around their body. They will 100% die if they are at the point that a drug trial is being suggested. It’s very different indeed.

I don't think the percentages are quite that clear, but regardless, what percentage of likelihood of death for trans children is acceptable to you: 20%? 50%? 80%?

2u2me

TomRiddle35 wrote: »

One things for certain, he's a great writer no more.

Yeah for sure. We should burn all his work for fear of someone incorrectly thinking it's good without realizing his views about transgenderism.

TomRiddle35

2u2me wrote: »

Yeah for sure. We should burn all his work for fear of someone incorrectly thinking it's good without realizing his views about transgenderism.

His output in the last 10 years or so has been in my opinion poor, his output in the nineties was absolutely incredible, hence I believe he is no longer a great writer.

He seems to spend most of his time these days on the internet writing about identity politics issues/arguing with people over identity politics, which I believe is a waste of his time and talents, maybe if he got offline he might become a great TV writer again?

Rodin

ELM327 wrote: »

Well that's BS because I am pro choice, in favor of termination up to birth.

Birth is in itself a termination of pregnancy.

ELM327

Rodin wrote: »

Birth is in itself a termination of pregnancy.

Indeed it is, and a lot of late term terminations result in live (induced) births.

Rodin

ELM327 wrote: »

Indeed it is, and a lot of late term terminations result in live (induced) births.

Or a live birth results in a termination.
Certainly nobody should be considering ending the life of a foetus after viability

ELM327

Rodin wrote: »

Or a live birth results in a termination.
Certainly nobody should be considering ending the life of a foetus after viability

A fetus is still a potential life until such point as it becomes life.
It's not mine (or yours, or anyones) place to dictate what a woman does with what is in effect a parasite in her body.

Quantum Erasure

Fair play, fair play. Not too often you see that opinion articulated on here

2u2me

ELM327 wrote: »

A fetus is still a potential life until such point as it becomes life.

At which point does a fetus become life?

volchitsa

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're right, it's not the same. I understand it's not unusual for off label drugs to be used during cancer treatment with children. They're not tested or certified with children, because of the relatively small numbers of such cases. Sometimes, they offer the best chance of survival. And I've heard of similar approaches with other conditions, using adult drugs with children. I don't think the 'off-label' issue is that unusual, and it seems to be dragged up here as a tactic more than anything else.


I don't think the percentages are quite that clear, but regardless, what percentage of likelihood of death for trans children is acceptable to you: 20%? 50%? 80%?

It's not about their death being "acceptable", it's about evaluating the risk versus benefit.

It happens all the time in medicine. Isotretinoin (Accutane or Roaccutane) is a terrific treatment for acne, but it is only given after other, often less effective treatments have been tried, because it has some very bad possible side effects. Including suicide, although that's not the only one.

A doctor refusing to prescribe it - or indeed deciding to do so - is doing exactly what you are rather hysterically trying to present as someone deciding that a certain risk of death is acceptable.

AndrewJRenko

volchitsa wrote: »

It's not about their death being "acceptable", it's about evaluating the risk versus benefit.

It happens all the time in medicine. Isotretinoin (Accutane or Roaccutane) is a terrific treatment for acne, but it is only given after other, often less effective treatments have been tried, because it has some very bad possible side effects. Including suicide, although that's not the only one.

A doctor refusing to prescribe it - or indeed deciding to do so - is doing exactly what you are rather hysterically trying to present as someone deciding that a certain risk of death is acceptable.

So just to be clear, you're happy with doctors making individual, expert medical decisions to prescribe off-label drugs, such as puberty blockers (often used for children with precocious puberty) for trans children then?

Brian Hartman

ELM327 wrote: »

A fetus is still a potential life until such point as it becomes life.
It's not mine (or yours, or anyones) place to dictate what a woman does with what is in effect a parasite in her body.

Jesus Christ...

volchitsa

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So just to be clear, you're happy with doctors making individual, expert medical decisions to prescribe off-label drugs, such as puberty blockers (often used for children with precocious puberty) for trans children then?

No that wouldn't be clear at all. I've never said anything of the sort, just as the other poster didn't say that a percentage of children dying would be acceptable to him. That's all just hysteria from you.

If you want to be taken seriously, you should reply to what posters have actually said, instead of what you want them to have said.