Neighbour Falling Out / Hedging

Razorfish

Sorry but a complicated post and looking for advice.

I live in a semi-d with a boundary hedge (berberis dawwini) in the front garden between the two gardens. It was planted by the builder 20 years ago and we like it. It has grown to a height of 6 feet.

Recently (in May) the neighbor started placing her trimmings from her side in a bag in our garden. We put them in our bin at the time as we didn't have the time to ask the reason why she did this.

When it occurred yesterday we asked her and she vehemently accused us of reporting her on a family matter to the Gardai in May (as she had a visit from the Gardai). We didn't and refuted this to her yesterday and to her husband (though I don't think they believed us). She was very upset and angry but so were we to be accused and shouted at at her door.

On indicating we didn't report her today to her husband, the husband diverted our attention to the state of our hedging noting he didn't like it and intends concreting his garden up to it (the boundary) in the next few weeks. His main argument was it was too high, blocked light, not a pleasant hedge and at times was untidy. We had expressed to liking the hedge 6/7 years ago when they mooted the idea of a wall as an alternative.

He also noted he didn't like our other plants that grow at fencing on the way to the back garden as it has grown into his garden. Up to now he has trimmed overgrowth into his garden with no issue from us. He said today it makes the side/ back garden look untidy and blocks light.

We are shocked to be accused (with no evidence) of calling the Gardai on them but we would like to keep the hedge in the front garden at its height as its great privacy. I'm looking for a little hedge related advice tonight if people have been in similar situations. I am upset tonight as per events and perhaps was thinking of getting a professional person in for advice on the hedge next week with a view to cutting it a little but keeping it at a height for privacy. Also if they concrete up to it using a builder, will it survive?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

bassy

nothing the can do as long as its not real high and at 6ft is fine,so i would just ignore them and there sad mindset.

macraignil

Move house now!
Lived for a short while in a semi-detached with neighbours who dumped their clippings from a shrub in the front garden in our driveway and nearly caused an accident when I had to stop reversing into the drive suddenly when there was another car passing and I saw the drive way blocked. They also trespassed into the back garden when the girlfriend and myself were away at work and defaced mature trees that my grandmother had planted. They did not like that the trees blocked some of the sunlight getting to their back garden. I guess they were hoping the eye sore they created by wrecking the trees would force us to cut them down. Moved away from there now and am happy I don't have to speak with them again. Not sure if this would be an option in your situation but it is the easiest way to deal with ignorant neighbours.

looksee

Is the neighbour to the north or south of you - does the hedge in fact block sunlight into his house? He has no right to sunlight and there are no rules about height of hedges, but this has nothing to do with being neighbourly and doing the right thing. I would think personally (and it does not matter what I think) that 6 ft is a bit high for a front garden hedge, maybe room for compromise there. You being seen to make a friendly gesture by maybe cutting it down to 5ft might change the situation.

The compromise might be that the concreting only goes as far as the bottom of the hedge - even if it goes up to the trunks it is unlikely to do any harm unless the builder digs down and cuts roots to put in shuttering.

They are being unreasonable in assuming you reported them to the Gardai, and putting clippings in your garden was passive aggressive and silly. Its a shared boundary hedge, they are responsible for their side; there is no connection between the Gardai incident and the hedge. It might be a starting place in discussion to ask them to accept that you had no part in calling the gardai and to discuss the hedge separately. Offer to lower the hedge a bit.

Look honestly at the hedge - Berberis is an attractive and useful shrub, but it has been in 20 years; apparently their lifespan is maximum around 30 years. Maybe it is getting a bit scruffy at this stage? Is it worth fighting over?

Edit, just realised - we just pulled out a large berberis that had been in our new-to-us garden presumably 20 years (since the house was built). It was neglected, whereas yours is not, but my, was it ugly. I will replace it as I like them, but that one was a dark gloomy tangled and overgrown thicket of a thing, no loss!

Rows Grower

macraignil wrote: »

Move house now!
Lived for a short while in a semi-detached with neighbours who dumped their clippings from a shrub in the front garden in our driveway and nearly caused an accident when I had to stop reversing into the drive suddenly when there was another car passing and I saw the drive way blocked. They also trespassed into the back garden when the girlfriend and myself were away at work and defaced mature trees that my grandmother had planted. They did not like that the trees blocked some of the sunlight getting to their back garden. I guess they were hoping the eye sore they created by wrecking the trees would force us to cut them down. Moved away from there now and am happy I don't have to speak with them again. Not sure if this would be an option in your situation but it is the easiest way to deal with ignorant neighbours.

Whoah, whoah there.

Calm down now, real easy, deep breaths.

macraignil

Rows Grower wrote: »

Whoah, whoah there.

Calm down now, real easy, deep breaths.

Perfectly calm now. Thanks for the concern. Miles away from the bad neighbours now so no worries to me if they want to act like they did when I lived next door to them. I'll probably never see them again.:D

Razorfish

looksee wrote: »

Is the neighbour to the north or south of you - does the hedge in fact block sunlight into his house? He has no right to sunlight and there are no rules about height of hedges, but this has nothing to do with being neighbourly and doing the right thing. I would think personally (and it does not matter what I think) that 6 ft is a bit high for a front garden hedge, maybe room for compromise there. You being seen to make a friendly gesture by maybe cutting it down to 5ft might change the situation.

The compromise might be that the concreting only goes as far as the bottom of the hedge - even if it goes up to the trunks it is unlikely to do any harm unless the builder digs down and cuts roots to put in shuttering.

They are being unreasonable in assuming you reported them to the Gardai, and putting clippings in your garden was passive aggressive and silly. Its a shared boundary hedge, they are responsible for their side; there is no connection between the Gardai incident and the hedge. It might be a starting place in discussion to ask them to accept that you had no part in calling the gardai and to discuss the hedge separately. Offer to lower the hedge a bit.

Look honestly at the hedge - Berberis is an attractive and useful shrub, but it has been in 20 years; apparently their lifespan is maximum around 30 years. Maybe it is getting a bit scruffy at this stage? Is it worth fighting over?

Edit, just realised - we just pulled out a large berberis that had been in our new-to-us garden presumably 20 years (since the house was built). It was neglected, whereas yours is not, but my, was it ugly. I will replace it as I like them, but that one was a dark gloomy tangled and overgrown thicket of a thing, no loss!

They are to the north of us. They are not joined to us and there is a larger than normal gap between the houses so we really can’t see how they would be losing light as it is.

I’m happy to compromise to 5 foot but in all honesty I don’t think they will be happy as they don’t like the hedge or any other type of greenery around them.

Their side of the hedge does look a little barren as they’ve kept cutting it lately to within an inch of its life but our side and top looks really good.

looksee

You have to figure out your solution for yourself, but the north side of a solid hedge is not going to ever grow as vigorously as the south side, or even a single shrub. A 6ft high solid bank of 20 year old berberis is going to be pretty unforgiving, as tolerant as berberis is generally.

Lumen

6ft is not a high hedge. If the hedge wasn't there and they put up a low wall on their side you would be entirely within your rights to put up a 2m fence on your side, and they'd end up with less light cos the fence would be half a foot taller.

It seems that this isn't all about hedging. If you want to improve relations then this issue about the Gardai really needs to be cleared up. If they really think you did that, the prickly hedge will be compounding the issue.

Normally I'd suggest compromising, but given they have an issue with any overgrowth you risk setting a precedent by doing that. If they don't like plants then nothing you can do will satisfy them.

However, I do think there's a case for treating the Berberis differently because (correct if wrong) this is ON the boundary rather than on your side and overgrowing.

Boundary structures and vegetation require more in the way of mutual consent. If they concrete their side I'd imagine the Berberis may seriously suffer or die (concrete requires whacked subbase) and the builder will be taking instruction from them, not you. You may have a legal case if it does but you really don't want to be suing over a small boundary hedge.

I would sort the Gardai issue, explain how much you love your plants, explain that 2m high boundaries and overhanging plants are normal, offer to accommodate their plans to concrete the front, be prepared to lose the hedge but don't offer to take it down, explain that if the hedge dies in the process of their works you'll plant another one on your side which may end up overhanging too, but offer to put up a 2m fence on your side of their proposed wall to limit overhanging.

In all probability they'll never build a wall or concrete the front, it sounds like they have enough going on.

_Brian

I’d say sit it out for the moment and see if things calm down. It may be just blister about the hedge because they know you like it.

But sometimes things don’t calm down and that’s where it gets tough.

We lived beside a lady who had some mental issues. It got really bad. Cutting down hedging, spraying it with roundup. Coming into our garden to cut it back.
I would be mowing my lawn sitting on the ride on with earmuffs, when I’d go along their fence she would run alongside shouting profanities across. Detached houses on 1 acre sites.
We got a trampoline and she came over complaining that we got it so our daughter could jump up and look in their windows !!
What really made up our mind was an incident not involving us. They had a contractor in doing work and a row ensued over money and the contractor got chased with a knife and received a light would on his arm when she lunged at him.
We got the hell out of there.
That was 12 years ago, she seems to be on medication now as the people we have the house rented to have no issues.


So it’s possible things will calm down, but be aware that it doesn’t always and I can’t live in that sort of environment

maestroamado

macraignil wrote: »

Move house now!
Lived for a short while in a semi-detached with neighbours who dumped their clippings from a shrub in the front garden in our driveway and nearly caused an accident when I had to stop reversing into the drive suddenly when there was another car passing and I saw the drive way blocked. They also trespassed into the back garden when the girlfriend and myself were away at work and defaced mature trees that my grandmother had planted. They did not like that the trees blocked some of the sunlight getting to their back garden. I guess they were hoping the eye sore they created by wrecking the trees would force us to cut them down. Moved away from there now and am happy I don't have to speak with them again. Not sure if this would be an option in your situation but it is the easiest way to deal with ignorant neighbours.

I think really not on to block sunlight from someones back garden.
Are you sure you the victim....

Lumen

maestroamado wrote: »

I think really not on to block sunlight from someones back garden.

The moral responsibility to enable your neighbour's enjoyment of their property has to be balanced against your right to enjoy your own.

maestroamado

If i were you i would do nothing and hopefully they will reflect on blaming you for Gardai thing and it will pass.
Hedge, i know this is not what you want to hear but just my opinion, i think 6ft hedge far to high for front garden between 2 houses front garden, more appriopriate for back garden...

maestroamado

Lumen wrote: »

The moral responsibility to enable your neighbour's enjoyment of their property has to be balanced against your right to enjoy your own.

sunlight is major factor in planning....

Lumen

maestroamado wrote: »

sunlight is major factor in planning....

If you're using the law as an indicator of what society deems reasonable then you're on weak ground, because the law places no limits on what you can grow, only on what you can cut down.

Waldram diagrams and sky factor calculations have been around for a century, and other jurisdictions (France springs to mind) have explicit rules about boundary planting heights, but Ireland has chosen to not legislate for this despite ample opportunity, which indicates that in our society the home owners rights to grow what they choose are more highly valued.

mrcheez

The neighbour leaving the cuttings in a bag in your driveway seems fair as those are from your hedge and so your property. I have similar agreement with my own neighbour when her huge palm tree leaves litter my garden, otherwise I'd be paying to dispose of them constantly.

Suit yourself within the law and ignore them after that. People always say about the main thing being to appease the neighbours every whim but do you really need to be friendly with them?

Sinus pain

mrcheez wrote: »

The neighbour leaving the cuttings in a bag in your driveway seems fair as those are from your hedge and so your property. I have similar agreement with my own neighbour when her huge palm tree leaves litter my garden, otherwise I'd be paying to dispose of them constantly.

It’s not his hedge it’s a boundary hedge planted by the builder - it’s both neighbours hedge

GreeBo

6ft would be high for front garden in my opinion, also how wide is the hedge?
Maybe they cut it back hard on their side as they don't want a huge, wide barrier?

As above, the North side of some hedges just won't do well.

If it's worth saving I'd take it down to 4-5 ft and make sure it's no more than 3ft wide.

How much privacy do you need in your front garden?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

6ft would be high for front garden in my opinion, also how wide is the hedge?
Maybe they cut it back hard on their side as they don't want a huge, wide barrier?

As above, the North side of some hedges just won't do well.

If it's worth saving I'd take it down to 4-5 ft and make sure it's no more than 3ft wide.

How much privacy do you need in your front garden?

As much as they want if it’s their own front garden.

GreeBo

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

As much as they want if it’s their own front garden.

Not if you have neighbours either side though.

If you want total privacy in the front of your house then a semid is the wrong house for you.

Shefwedfan

maestroamado wrote: »

If i were you i would do nothing and hopefully they will reflect on blaming you for Gardai thing and it will pass.
Hedge, i know this is not what you want to hear but just my opinion, i think 6ft hedge far to high for front garden between 2 houses front garden, more appriopriate for back garden...

Exact opposite is what I have found to happen, leaving it is seen as some people as a sign of guilt. Go head on in and tackle this problem. You need to resolve or you are going to have years of pain

If you can resolve that then approach the hedge issue. I guess if taking down and building a wall the cost will be 50/50?

I build a wall between house when living in semi D, we put block and then steel railing at top which was lovely and didn’t block light.

Shefwedfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

As much as they want if it’s their own front garden.

Semi D and private garden front and back don’t happen....you will always have people overlooking or can see in....

macraignil

maestroamado wrote: »

I think really not on to block sunlight from someones back garden.
Are you sure you the victim....

I never said I was a victim. I took the easy option and moved away from the neighbours who were acting like p****s.



The trees they complained about were reduced in height by about a half by a tree surgeon before they then decided to deface them when they were trimming some shrubs at the back of their own garden. Even if you make an effort to accommodate ignorant neighbours they can still continue to act as p****s and my point is that it is just easier to move somewhere that you don't have to deal with people like that.



So to clearly answer your question I am not a victim and I am sure the neighbours I moved away from were acting like p****s and am happy I wont have to see them again.

Shefwedfan

macraignil wrote: »

I never said I was a victim. I took the easy option and moved away from the neighbours who were acting like p****s.



The trees they complained about were reduced in height by about a half by a tree surgeon before they then decided to deface them when they were trimming some shrubs at the back of their own garden. Even if you make an effort to accommodate ignorant neighbours they can still continue to act as p****s and my point is that it is just easier to move somewhere that you don't have to deal with people like that.



So to clearly answer your question I am not a victim and I am sure the neighbours I moved away from were acting like p****s and am happy I wont have to see them again.

Based on this post, maybe you had some anger issues?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Not if you have neighbours either side though.

If you want total privacy in the front of your house then a semid is the wrong house for you.

You say it like most people have a choice. That’s the housing setup of the masses and most have to live in them, so you make the best of what you have for yourself within the law.

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exact opposite is what I have found to happen, leaving it is seen as some people as a sign of guilt. Go head on in and tackle this problem. You need to resolve or you are going to have years of pain

If you can resolve that then approach the hedge issue. I guess if taking down and building a wall the cost will be 50/50?

I build a wall between house when living in semi D, we put block and then steel railing at top which was lovely and didn’t block light.

Yeah, except nice looking walls are cripplingly expensive so I'd expect you'd be left with a low ugly block wall you'd paid half for, and no nice hedge, which is hardly a compromise.

If neighbours disagree over boundary treatment then it's better not to have anything on it and let each do their own thing.

If he wants a wall let him build one on his own side that he pays for himself. It won't solve the overhanging though.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

looksee wrote: »

Is the neighbour to the north or south of you - does the hedge in fact block sunlight into his house?

Utterly brilliant question.

looksee wrote: »

He has no right to sunlight and there are no rules about height of hedges,

Oh wait, I meant utterly irrelevant.

maestroamado

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exact opposite is what I have found to happen, leaving it is seen as some people as a sign of guilt. Go head on in and tackle this problem. You need to resolve or you are going to have years of pain

If you can resolve that then approach the hedge issue. I guess if taking down and building a wall the cost will be 50/50?

I build a wall between house when living in semi D, we put block and then steel railing at top which was lovely and didn’t block light.

Maybe you used to looking through iron bars...


I did not mean leave forever, hopefully they will reflect on false allegation and be easier to talk to at later time.
I think if i was living next to difficult people i would also move, i once lived next to people and they would never speak unless i spoke first, they used to leave light on that shone into my back door which was half glass.
I eventually developed good relationship with them

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

Yeah, except nice looking walls are cripplingly expensive so I'd expect you'd be left with a low ugly block wall you'd paid half for, and no nice hedge, which is hardly a compromise.

If neighbours disagree over boundary treatment then it's better not to have anything on it and let each do their own thing.

If he wants a wall let him build one on his own side that he pays for himself. It won't solve the overhanging though.

How much is crippling expensive?

I got a price for a brick wall between houses in Dublin, it was 2-3 years ago but was 700 quid between both houses so 350...that was red brick

I wouldn’t put that in crippling expensive

maestroamado

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exact opposite is what I have found to happen, leaving it is seen as some people as a sign of guilt. Go head on in and tackle this problem. You need to resolve or you are going to have years of pain

If you can resolve that then approach the hedge issue. I guess if taking down and building a wall the cost will be 50/50?

I build a wall between house when living in semi D, we put block and then steel railing at top which was lovely and didn’t block light.

Maybe you used to looking through iron bars...


I did not mean leave forever, hopefully they will reflect on false allegation and be easier to talk to at later time.
I think if i was living next to difficult people i would also move, i once lived next to people and they would never speak unless i spoke first, they used to leave light on that shone into my back door which was half glass, it was difficult but i ignored.
I eventually developed good relationship with them...

After i moved i seen the woman in the family attacking a TD on the news about a hospital issue.
I met her afterwards and congratulated her...