Direct Provision to be Abolished

Eric Cartman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Every referendum on the issue has proven you incorrect.

abortion rights and same sex marraige are perfectly compatible with a broad church of views including centre-right and moderate right politics. Has nothing to do with Ireland 'going left'

Mysterypunter

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Why is it awful?

In the context of your home country being so awful you had to escape to Ireland. Nigeria/Pakistan/Zimbabwe aren't exactly next door.

And that's an honest question. It's a phrase I hear all the time but have rarely seen explained. Getting food water warmth and safety has to be better then the country they were fleeing.

Its awful from the point of view of a dragged out system that doesn't work, only from the point of view of the genuine cases, for the spoofers it's a dream come true.

Mysterypunter

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigeria's proclamation of independence from British rule on 1 October 1960.

Pakistan gained independence from the British rule on August 14, 1947.

Pakistan gained independence from the British rule on 11 November 1965

Common factor? They've been independent a long time, and what what they done with their independence? nah. Let's not deal with the nasty internal problems and instead pass the buck on to the British,... between 2001 and 2019 no less. Apparently the British are to blame for crap that happens after they no longer control the countries...

It's time to stop tolerating the "colonialisation excuse" for a countrys' failure to prove for its own citizens. You think that blaming the UK is fine, but it's not because collective guilt is the agenda being pushed. The only way to deal with this BS is to point out a nations failures as their own, and the suggestion that refugees should be back fixing their country rather than seeking a better life in another country.

Just drop the guilt trip completely.

The citizens of the 3 countries hover around this area because of colonial links, they have no connection with Ireland, but used to be ruled by England, I know they have not done much with their independence, but the point I was making is the British were a colonial power, Ireland wasnt

ILoveYourVibes

Eric Cartman wrote: »

abortion rights and same sex marraige are perfectly compatible with a broad church of views including centre-right and moderate right politics. Has nothing to do with Ireland 'going left'

Has the pope sanctioned abortion and gay marriage?

Are these not still the platforms the right still fight on in the us and around the world?

I would imagine on the topic of direct provision in isolation away from immigration that Ireland would be quite liberal.

Not to mention the fact that Direct provision is actually unlawful. (Which is the ONLY reason its being ended lets be real here).

They have to end it. Or they face legal challenges.

Kiith

Kiith wrote: »

I really don't know where so many people get the idea that all refugees are lying and only want to come over and sit on their hole getting welfare. I know quite a few people in Direct Provision, and pretty much all of them started working as soon as they were legally allowed to. You know, serving your food, packing food/equipment, cleaning up after you for very little wages. The jobs plenty of Irish people would never give up their welfare to do.

Are there false claims? Sure there are, and they should be sent home. If the system wasn't a ****ing mess, it wouldn't take 9 months to even get an initial interview. But it's not as easy as saying "Your country isn't at war" and sending them home though. It can be a complex situation for many of them, with racial, religious or sexuality violence aimed at them.

These DP centers make a sickening amount of money while leaving people live an ****e conditions.

It doesnt matter if they work when they come here.
The fact is the vast majority of them are economic migrants and they're applying through a process that says theyre lives are in danger.

There are people on Welfare who wont work a day in their lives but that's a complete and utter separate issue to this.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Every referendum on the issue has proven you incorrect.

Rubbish. Every referendum has shown the wishes of the people, not their ideological preferences. Did you even read what I wrote?

Mysterypunter wrote:

The citizens of the 3 countries hover around this area because of colonial links, they have no connection with Ireland, but used to be ruled by England, I know they have not done much with their independence, but the point I was making is the British were a colonial power, Ireland wasnt

Yes, they were, and colonialism wasn't amazing for all the countries involved. However, it's a get out of jail excuse. It's the card thrown down to excuse their own failures as nations, to provide for their own people, and to justify bashing western civilisation.. because we're all collectively responsible for what the colonial powers did.

Posting such, simply encourages people to believe its true. And it's not. It's just PR spin..

Slowyourrole

Danzy wrote: »

What the modern left call a far right position on migration is a traditional left wing one and very much a working class one.

Can you name one main stream party on the left that wants open borders or unmonitored immigration? What the people on the right claim is their position is generally the position held by most parties. What separates them tends to be the methods and intensity.

Geuze

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Can you name one main stream party on the left that wants open borders or unmonitored immigration? What the people on the right claim is their position is generally the position held by most parties. What separates them tends to be the methods and intensity.

PBP seem to be for open borders, although they are not very specific:


https://www.pbp.ie/policies/racism-and-immigration-policy/2/

Yellow_Fern

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Can you name one main stream party on the left that wants open borders or unmonitored immigration? What the people on the right claim is their position is generally the position held by most parties. What separates them tends to be the methods and intensity.

Irish parties tend to very vague about their key polices and when they are clear it is normally only in the short term. There are some clear exceptions with Sinn Fein and the Green Party but mostly the main parties don't have strong views on issues that are not currently being debated. If you look at the immigrant council or the anti racism networks you find plenty of people in support of open borders. I agree most left wingers are not mad but they will adopt mad positions very easily.

Geuze

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Can you name one main stream party on the left that wants open borders or unmonitored immigration? What the people on the right claim is their position is generally the position held by most parties. What separates them tends to be the methods and intensity.

Left-wing parties never state that the vast majority of AS are bogus.

They never state the truth.

Left-wing parties presume that AS are genuine, where as the truth is that the vast majority are false.

Left-wing politicians don't mention this, as it undermines the fallacy that they believe.



https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/1087

Topgear on Dave

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

We know this.

So what is the solution? If the solution was easy the politicians would have done it years ago. They LOVE easy fixes.

I hear lots of campaign slogans about abolishing it all the time online.

So what system should replace it?

No, they wouldn't. It's the same as housing. They won't fix housing as so many of them are landlords/know somebody that is one.

Housing could be sorted in the morning.

Galwayguy35

The reason as to why they cross mainland Europe and all the safe countries there to make their way to Ireland has never been answered.

We all know the reason before 2004 was to have anchor babies but yet despite the constant complaining from those in DP they still come here.

A cluster of Covid associated with travel from Iraq. No doubt one of our persecuted asylum seekers taking a holiday back home once they got their leave to remain

Topgear on Dave

Deleted User wrote: »

No, they wouldn't. It's the same as housing. They won't fix housing as so many of them are landlords/know somebody that is one.

Housing could be sorted in the morning.

Do tell us how to fix the housing problems as well as the DP situation.

Many TDs make great headlines decrying the shortage of homes and housing nationally whilst attempting to block construction in their own constituencies.

Slowyourrole

Geuze wrote: »

PBP seem to be for open borders, although they are not very specific:


https://www.pbp.ie/policies/racism-and-immigration-policy/2/

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Irish parties tend to very vague about their key polices and when they are clear it is normally only in the short term. There are some clear exceptions with Sinn Fein and the Green Party but mostly the main parties don't have strong views on issues that are not currently being debated. If you look at the immigrant council or the anti racism networks you find plenty of people in support of open borders. I agree most left wingers are not mad but they will adopt mad positions very easily.

Geuze wrote: »

Left-wing parties never state that the vast majority of AS are bogus.

They never state the truth.

Left-wing parties presume that AS are genuine, where as the truth is that the vast majority are false.

Left-wing politicians don't mention this, as it undermines the fallacy that they believe.



https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/1087

TLDR: No.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The reason as to why they cross mainland Europe and all the safe countries there to make their way to Ireland has never been answered.

We all know the reason before 2004 was to have anchor babies but yet despite the constant complaining from those in DP they still come here.

Maybe they prefer the English language.

perfectkama

perfectkama wrote: »

I will ask you too so answer ?

Why is the waiting list so long?


Because it's jobs for the boys.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is the waiting list so long?

Simple they stopped building and sold off large stocks to tenants on the cheap

Yellow_Fern

Gatling wrote: »

Simple they stopped building and sold off large stocks to tenants on the cheap

Were council housing lists really shorter years ago? It is true that they stopped building, but I thought the lists were always long.

Geuze

gilberto_eire wrote: »

A cluster of Covid associated with travel from Iraq. No doubt one of our persecuted asylum seekers taking a holiday back home once they got their leave to remain

I don't think they are AS.

There is travel from Iraq involved, yes, to Sligo, but no mention of being AS.

greendom

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Its scandalous, they can go back on holidays to these countries they apparently cant stay in for fear of their life, commit fraud and crimes and it's not revoked.

And tbh the same conditions should apply to EU citizens, you get temporary welfare support and after that you're going home.
You commit any crimes you're deported after your sentence.
I wouldn't move abroad and expect another country's welfare system to fund my life, I'd be booking a flight home once my job ended.

Why not go the whole hog and exile Irish people who can't find work?

Gatling

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Were council housing lists really shorter years ago? It is true that they stopped building, but I thought the lists were always long.

Yes because there was stock and the majority of people didn't want a council house ,then in the late 90's if you were in school and got pregnant and you could get 4 bed house in less then 12 months ,then came the idea to sell many council properties of tenants on the cheap but didn't replenish housing lists ,add the 58,000 + asylum seekers who needed housing since coming here

Yellow_Fern

Gatling wrote: »

Yes because there was stock and the majority of people didn't want a council house ,then in the late 90's if you were in school and got pregnant and you could get 4 bed house in less then 12 months ,then came the idea to sell many council properties of tenants on the cheap but didn't replenish housing lists ,add the 58,000 + asylum seekers who needed housing since coming here

I remember hearing stories of decade long social housing lists in the 2003 era so I wouldn't believe your statement without documentary evidence.

Guys, there's been plenty of threads on CA about the housing lists. Perhaps do a search and you'll find out plenty of the stats/evidence.

It's not really related to DP and immigration.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Why not go the whole hog and exile Irish people who can't find work?

Theres measures that should be taken on that, but stopping illegal immigration seems like an easy action to take... you enforce the existing rules.

kildare lad

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Were council housing lists really shorter years ago? It is true that they stopped building, but I thought the lists were always long.

They don't build council estates anymore , they make builders put 10% social housing in any new estates built. There wasn't hardly nothing getting built during the recession but you still had people getting pregnant and putting there names down for housing , then you'd other people refusing housing due to it being to far from their mammy. It's messed up here that someone can be paying 1300 euro rent for an apartment , then across the road someone can be living in a 3 bedroom semi , with most of the rent paid by the state.

AllForIt

Kiith wrote: »

I know quite a few people in Direct Provision, and pretty much all of them started working as soon as they were legally allowed to. You know, serving your food, packing food/equipment, cleaning up after you for very little wages. The jobs plenty of Irish people would never give up their welfare to do.

I have no sympathy with this view whatsoever. The asylum system exists for the sole reason of saving the lives of people in jeopardy. It is not for improving the 'quality of life' for those who think they might be better off here, although I'm sure there are some who think it should provide for that reason as well.

Given the situation they were in, working as a cleaner/packer/server is 1000 times better than where they were, or purport to be, even on comparatively low wages. If their lives were in danger they hardly had a job, had money for food, had any quality of life at all. So it is a bit odd to be complaining that their quality of life isn't on a par with the natives. That would be like someone winning €100,000 on the Euromillions but moaning they didn't win the €150 million jackpot.

What I see is a slow creep in expectations in what the AS system should produce. From 'merely' saving a persons life to producing a university graduate with all the capitalist opportunities available to them to succeed and even representation in the Dail effectively making the rules for the country that saved their life.

First we provide an asylum system, get credit for that. Credit cancelled because it's actually the moral thing to do. Credit given when we agree to take more, credit cancelled because conditions aren't good enough. Racism is intrinsic therefore to prove we've changed we'll be less strict with asylum seekers i.e. we'll just take whoever comes, credit cancelled because - oh who knows - because we're being supplied with diversity and cleaners so we're net benefiting from the asylum system. Yep, that is exactly the way it is playing out.

suicide_circus

"Only 15% of first-time decisions on asylum applications in Ireland were rejected, compared to an EU average of 63%."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-has-lowest-refusal-rate-of-asylum-applicants-920320.html

What does this tell us about the asylum process in Ireland? That is far too great a difference to be dismissed as an anomaly.

Land of the cead mile failte?

Soft touch?

Government policy to increase diversity?

Cash cow for a select few?

Answers on a postcard please

Higgins5473

Kiith wrote: »

You know, serving your food, packing food/equipment, cleaning up after you for very little wages. The jobs plenty of Irish people would never give up their welfare to do.

Replace "Irish" with any other race, nationality or ethnicity and see how you get on with such sweeping statements and generalising like that. There are plenty of non-Irish on welfare also that may not be prepared to give up their welfare, has this occurred to you?

Rockbeast2

AllForIt wrote: »

I have no sympathy with this view whatsoever. The asylum system exists for the sole reason of saving the lives of people in jeopardy. It is not for improving the 'quality of life' for those who think they might be better off here, although I'm sure there are some who think it should provide for that reason as well.

Given the situation they were in, working as a cleaner/packer/server is 1000 times better than where they were, or purport to be, even on comparatively low wages. If their lives were in danger they hardly had a job, had money for food, had any quality of life at all. So it is a bit odd to be complaining that their quality of life isn't on a par with the natives. That would be like someone winning €100,000 on the Euromillions but moaning they didn't win the €150 million jackpot.

What I see is a slow creep in expectations in what the AS system should produce. From 'merely' saving a persons life to producing a university graduate with all the capitalist opportunities available to them to succeed and even representation in the Dail effectively making the rules for the country that saved their life.

First we provide an asylum system, get credit for that. Credit cancelled because it's actually the moral thing to do. Credit given when we agree to take more, credit cancelled because conditions aren't good enough. Racism is intrinsic therefore to prove we've changed we'll be less strict with asylum seekers i.e. we'll just take whoever comes, credit cancelled because - oh who knows - because we're being supplied with diversity and cleaners so we're net benefiting from the asylum system. Yep, that is exactly the way it is playing out.

They're doing us a favour by coming here, lads! We should be grateful.

* I think that's the way we're meant to feel about the whole situation.

Kivaro

If the abolition of Direct Provision in Ireland guaranteed the Irish tax payer that the asylum process itself would be streamlined, so as to remove the multiple extremely expensive appeals and to vastly improve the timeline for a final decision, then the vast majority of us would have no problem with it. However, we all know that since this is Ireland and the various vested interests "need" to get their cut, it is very unlikely that improvements would be made to the existing asylum system.

Also, there needs to be an immediate rejection of asylum applications from those flying in from Berlin, Paris, London and cities in other safe countries and then seeking asylum in Ireland.

I would also like to see greater transparency from government with statistical reporting on questions like the percentage of refugees still on welfare 5 years after receiving that status. This transparency could also quell any disinformation about the actual numbers of non-working refugees.

Let's have an honest national discussion about the asylum system in Ireland, as it only benefits genuine asylum seekers and those who have to financially pay for it.