Is your club benefiting from the COVID lockdown?

Golf is my Game

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Can you explain how competition fees are a vital component of your clubs finances? How much does the club take in in fees? How much does it give out in prizes?



What is the subscription?

Competitions fees important to us too. Not vital, but important. About 20k-25k towards the general running of the club per year I think. About 30-40 percent of the €7 goes to prizes. Some could see it as unfair that all comp money doesnt go to comp prizes, and maybe in a rich club type setup that would be grand out. But I think its a fair cop. Effectively a surcharge on those playing on Saturdays and Sundays for prime time reserved slot golf. Its a bit the Ryanair phylosophy of charge it where you can get it. But if they didnt, then theyed have to get it by a sub rise which on the one hand could be argued is fairer that all contribute whether they play comps or not, but on the other, I think its only right that those who play at the more premium time of the week should pay a little more than just their membership for the benefit. I play about 30 weekends a year, so an extra €120 a year. Its still decent value. Even if it was shared to all the membership Id probably be looking at a 60 a year increase in my sub. Dont know the figures, but for sure it will have cost the club money not running them during the lockdown. Not sure what they would have saved in wages though.

fred funk }{

GreeBo wrote: »

I honestly dont think that would sit well with a lot of the members.
Personally I'm undecided, I can obviously see the benefits but I also think it can cheapen the place a little.

Wow.

Golf is my Game

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Wow.

Ah there no doubt but they do now. Its not that there a bad club for ones that need the income. But its not as if their a real business transaction, and I think are more associated with country club or small towns where they are like small business giving something back to the community where they all know each other. But they are begging really, and its not as if its for a charity cause where there is some helping going on, it more just having golfers give themselves better prizes for their day out having fun anyway. They always look a bit cheap to me alright, and a comfortably funded club doesnt need to resort to them. Its a bit GAA vibe to it.

blue note

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Ah there no doubt but they do now. Its not that there a bad club for ones that need the income. But its not as if their a real business transaction, and I think are more associated with country club or small towns where they are like small business giving something back to the community where they all know each other. But they are begging really, and its not as if its for a charity cause where there is some helping going on, it more just having golfers give themselves better prizes for their day out having fun anyway. They always look a bit cheap to me alright, and a comfortably funded club doesnt need to resort to them. Its a bit GAA vibe to it.

It can also be a connection for a club to the community. Often the members with businesses will sponsor a comp, a bit of a way for them to give a little back. And the members might use their business a bit more. A bit of a way of supporting your fellow members.

It never crossed my mind that having a local sponsor would be cheapening an event.

Wichita Lineman

Local sponsorship cheapening an event..................jesus i've heard it all now. If anything it enhances the event and helps build good relationships in the area. Most of our sponsors are connected to the club through being members or they are somehow related / employers / friends of members which is how they got involved in the first place. We'd survive without the sponsorship but would definitely be worse off without the goodwill it generates in the community.

I guess that's partly why I'd rather be involved with a small friendly community based club than a large metropolitan one. Each to their own of course.

GreeBo

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Local sponsorship cheapening an event..................jesus i've heard it all now. If anything it enhances the event and helps build good relationships in the area. Most of our sponsors are connected to the club through being members or they are somehow related / employers / friends of members which is how they got involved in the first place. We'd survive without the sponsorship but would definitely be worse off without the goodwill it generates in the community.

I guess that's partly why I'd rather be involved with a small friendly community based club than a large metropolitan one. Each to their own of course.

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

slingerz

We have a lot of local businesses sponsor our comps and i think its great to see. Often they will be connected with a member and not be a business that most could interact with or be an established local business e.g. hotel/bar and i think it has positive impact in getting people to support those businesses.

I would think for our weekly comp that €100 would cover most of the prizes. Some of the members businesses will cover the bigger comps then

Wichita Lineman

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

Greebo, you were the one making 'cheapening' remarks about local sponsorship which wasnt very friendly. No bias whatsoever.

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

The idea that it would cheapen the club to accept sponsorship does hint towards the perception that golf clubs consider themselves above rather than part of a community.

The money side of it is obviously important. If a club saves 5 grand a year from accepting sponsors that can mean a lot to plenty of clubs. But there are plenty of clubs who accept sponsors because it's a way of letting members give a little bit more back and a way of helping the members.

It's disappointing to be honest to hear that some people think the local hardware store sponsoring an event would cheapen it. Now when they have a chainsaw as a prize (as I witnessed) that's a different problem, but that's another story!

srfc d16

My club would be in the same boat as Greebo.
Off the top of my head I can only recall one sponsored event per year over the last few years and that is from the same sponsor each year.
We have local sponsorship in the form of tee boxes being sponsored.
I don't see how sponsorship would enhance a competition unless there are a pretty small pool of players entering and therefore a small prize fund.

the.red.baron

GreeBo wrote: »

I honestly dont think that would sit well with a lot of the members.
Personally I'm undecided, I can obviously see the benefits but I also think it can cheapen the place a little.

joebloggs32

srfc d16 wrote: »

My club would be in the same boat as Greebo.
Off the top of my head I can only recall one sponsored event per year over the last few years and that is from the same sponsor each year.
We have local sponsorship in the form of tee boxes being sponsored.
I don't see how sponsorship would enhance a competition unless there are a pretty small pool of players entering and therefore a small prize fund.

I play in a very small rural club where every penny counts. To say its in financial difficulty would be an understatement. Having sponsors is a necessity to help run the comps, yet the sponsors definitely would reap the benefits to as many club members would be very conscious of their generosity and support them when possible in by putting business their way.
The pandemic has definitely brought in some very needed new members, who hopefully long term will stay at it. I have counted over 100 on the time sheet for this week's open singles. Last year it would have averaged about 30. I know its first week back but if the average was even 60 going forward it would be great.

GreeBo

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I play in a very small rural club where every penny counts. To say its in financial difficulty would be an understatement. Having sponsors is a necessity to help run the comps, yet the sponsors definitely would reap the benefits to as many club members would be very conscious of their generosity and support them when possible in by putting business their way.

"Sponsorship[1] is a cash and/or in-kind fee paid to a property (typically in sports, arts, entertainment or causes) in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associated with that property."

Emphasis is mine.

To clarify, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it at all, its just about expectation. Many people wouldn't expect to pay €2K a year on top of a substantial joining fee and then also see the club taking sponsorship from local businesses.
The members are well within their rights to not want to be "used" by the club to generate revenue.

You don't see Joes Auto Repair sponsoring events or tees at Adare or many other courses, I don't see why its causing a furore here.

Also, thinking about it more, I believe we normally see sponsorship during society days, not during semi-opens.

blue note

I can't imagine anyone would question that it's giving access to exploitable commercial potential. But the way I'd look at it is that the members are the club so doing a favour for the members by allowing them to sponsor a competition or pay for a bench or the like is complimenting the fact that it is a local club. The fact that you get revenue from it is a bonus if you're not in need of the money.

Ultimately I'm just surprised that the attitude by some members would be that sponsorship would cheapen the club in any way. If I remember correctly, you're in Grange? That struck me as a real local, community club. I thought they'd have strong ties with local businesses, as opposed to just the individuals who run / own the businesses.

And I can't imagine we'll see it, but I'd hazard a guess that if the yanks saw Joe's auto repair sponsoring a tee in a quaint Irish club like Ballybunion or something they'd think it was adorable! But that's a side point.

mike12

This took a weird turn, every Pro event and a lot of amature events have sponsors.

It is foolish not to if you have people will to go looking.

Not every club can charge 2k for membership or have a joining fee.

joebloggs32

GreeBo wrote: »

"Sponsorship[1] is a cash and/or in-kind fee paid to a property (typically in sports, arts, entertainment or causes) in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associated with that property."

Emphasis is mine.

To clarify, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it at all, its just about expectation. Many people wouldn't expect to pay €2K a year on top of a substantial joining fee and then also see the club taking sponsorship from local businesses.
The members are well within their rights to not want to be "used" by the club to generate revenue.

You don't see Joes Auto Repair sponsoring events or tees at Adare or many other courses, I don't see why its causing a furore here.

Also, thinking about it more, I believe we normally see sponsorship during society days, not during semi-opens.

The club im in would nearly pay lads to join if they could afford it! If we had a 2k sub we would have less than 50 members
Rural Ireland has never recovered from the last crash. The club did have an entrance fee until the crash, but thsts long gone. People in their 20s and 30s not only left the club, but migrated/emigrated. We were left with a massively declining and ageing membership base. Social membership and u35 membership is now on offer to try and bring people back. We are in last chance saloon as a vulture fund bought our debt, so any revenue be it holding a weekly bonus ball raffle from the lotto or sponsorship is needed.
Its a club with a proud tradition. 3 mens Irish internationals have come from the club in the last 3 decades but when your on your on your knees you will need all the help you can get.

GreeBo

mike12 wrote: »

This took a weird turn, every Pro event and a lot of amature events have sponsors.

It is foolish not to if you have people will to go looking.

Not every club can charge 2k for membership or have a joining fee.

No one is saying that every club can or indeed should, its just a difference of opinion and differing circumstances, neither is right nor wrong.

You think its foolish, others may think it crass. Everyone is entitled to hold an opinion.

Golf is my Game

Sponsorship probably gives the wrong impression. It's more like a charitable donation, where small local business due to link to the club or people already in it, give it a few quid through their business. Like they give something to the Lions, the StV de P, or the town band. It's a community thing, where people either do it for the general good of their town to help a club exist, or have their arms twisted a little and it's just easier to do it than not. But it's for clubs on the margins, and is more a country thing than Dublin. Fundamentally, people should pay for their hobby, and loot they are going to collect if they win. And full or affluent clubs can do that. But those less flush use that angle to help them pay the bills. And while it does have a 'cheap' vibe to it, cause that's what it is when you can't fully pay your own way, that's not that theirs anything wrong with it either. You do what you've got to do to play our game.

Wichita Lineman

I disagree totally that local sponsorship has a 'cheap vibe' to it. It's sponsorship at our level the same way other competitions / events are sponsored by the multi billionaires of this world for clubs at that level.

pinkdoubleeagle

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Sponsorship probably gives the wrong impression. It's more like a charitable donation, where small local business due to link to the club or people already in it, give it a few quid through their business. Like they give something to the Lions, the StV de P, or the town band. It's a community thing, where people either do it for the general good of their town to help a club exist, or have their arms twisted a little and it's just easier to do it than not. But it's for clubs on the margins, and is more a country thing than Dublin. Fundamentally, people should pay for their hobby, and loot they are going to collect if they win. And full or affluent clubs can do that. But those less flush use that angle to help them pay the bills. And while it does have a 'cheap' vibe to it, cause that's what it is when you can't fully pay your own way, that's not that theirs anything wrong with it either. You do what you've got to do to play our game.

No Offence, but your posts are very difficult to read

GreeBo

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I disagree totally that local sponsorship has a 'cheap vibe' to it. It's sponsorship at our level the same way other competitions / events are sponsored by the multi billionaires of this world for clubs at that level.

If we are all agreed that there are different levels, what's the problem in being at a level of zero sponsorship?

Wichita Lineman

GreeBo wrote: »

If we are all agreed that there are different levels, what's the problem in being at a level of zero sponsorship?

I never said you werent entitled to your opinion that some clubs dont want or even need sponsorship but I found your 'cheap' remark unnecessary that's all.

GreeBo

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I never said you werent entitled to your opinion that some clubs dont want or even need sponsorship but I found your 'cheap' remark unnecessary that's all.

Each to their own, as I said.
Local business "sponsoring" a local club are basically just giving them money to support a local thing. There really isnt that much in it for the company. How many members wouldn't be aware of the local company already? As already said, its charity in disguise basically. Really no different than the social networks in all clubs where members avail of and support each others businesses.

I don't beg for money on the streets or look for handouts from charities either, though according to some I would be foolish not to as it would be free money for me. I think you would consider it "cheap" of me to take money from a charity when I don't depend on it to survive.

blue note

It improves the image of a local company to support local sports clubs, musical societies and the like. It can very much be a good commercial decision to support a local GAA or golf club, because while people might have been aware of you to begin with, if they think some of the money might end up going back into their club, they will be more likely to give you their business.

In fairness, I'm sure there will be people who just love the club and would consider it a privilege to sponsor a competition. I wouldn't view it as charity, but you could take that approach. But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

It improves the image of a local company to support local sports clubs, musical societies and the like. It can very much be a good commercial decision to support a local GAA or golf club, because while people might have been aware of you to begin with, if they think some of the money might end up going back into their club, they will be more likely to give you their business.

In fairness, I'm sure there will be people who just love the club and would consider it a privilege to sponsor a competition. I wouldn't view it as charity, but you could take that approach. But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

Which is grand, but you are now looking at it from the companies point of view rather than the clubs.

Anywho, none of this is really covid related!

Mushy

A company advertising their business is cheapening a place now....cant say I've ever heard that idea anywhere

blue note

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

So I guess your club has a sponsors logo on anything that can fit one?
Tees, flags, rakes, cups, towels, tables, chairs, sand bags, very cars, etc etc?

Golf is my Game

blue note wrote: »

But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

blue note wrote: »

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

Mushy wrote: »

A company advertising their business is cheapening a place now....cant say I've ever heard that idea anywhere

Its not really though. While the whole 'sponsorship' talk uses the language of business and advertising, and exposure, and selling their business thats only pretending its business. None of these are real business deals where the business is looking for an outlet to have their name associated with sponsorship. The motivation is support of their freinds and community and probably even their own club or whatever. Half of them if they didnt get the call from the club PRO or knock on the door or whatever tapping them up for a hundred quid or so would be delighted. They give it to get them off their back. Other do do it more willingly. But just because from sense of civic duty or their big into the game themselves, or their brother or kids or employees or whoever are into it and its a way of showing support. They wouldnt be stuck with a business problem if they couldnt sponsor a comp and be thinging gee how am I going to get my bit of advertising in town now, Ill have to see will the football club give me a sign by the pitch or something. It just has the illusion of being business sponsorship and that theyl get a return from it and thats why they dont it. Its a handout.
The sponsorship of the tour pros and such are real commercial sponsorship - they choose to spend the bucks because they calculate a return on their investment. They dont do it because they think golf needs support, or pro golfers are so good that they need more millions from a big business. If they couldnt do it, theyd spend it on TV ads or their name on a football teams shirts. Its an investment, not a donation.

Mushy

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Its not really though. While the whole 'sponsorship' talk uses the language of business and advertising, and exposure, and selling their business thats only pretending its business. None of these are real business deals where the business is looking for an outlet to have their name associated with sponsorship. The motivation is support of their freinds and community and probably even their own club or whatever. Half of them if they didnt get the call from the club PRO or knock on the door or whatever tapping them up for a hundred quid or so would be delighted. They give it to get them off their back. Other do do it more willingly. But just because from sense of civic duty or their big into the game themselves, or their brother or kids or employees or whoever are into it and its a way of showing support. They wouldnt be stuck with a business problem if they couldnt sponsor a comp and be thinging gee how am I going to get my bit of advertising in town now, Ill have to see will the football club give me a sign by the pitch or something. It just has the illusion of being business sponsorship and that theyl get a return from it and thats why they dont it. Its a handout.
The sponsorship of the tour pros and such are real commercial sponsorship - they choose to spend the bucks because they calculate a return on their investment. They dont do it because they think golf needs support, or pro golfers are so good that they need more millions from a big business. If they couldnt do it, theyd spend it on TV ads or their name on a football teams shirts. Its an investment, not a donation.

Ok, but quite literally none of that cheapens anything