BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

White privilege is acknowledging that white people were not treated negatively solely because of assumptions made about them or directly because of their skin colour.

As opposed to black people spending their time in predominately black communities? So you feel that we should be also talking about black privilege too then?

The evidence to support this has been documented from extreme cases, to more subjective examples. But there is no way that recognizing that this scenario existed (exists) for many is in and of itself racist.

White privilege is leveled against White people. Sure, sometimes you hear advocates say "not all" white people, but most of the time it's used as a blanket generalisation to say we all have it. It's a stereotype based entirely on race. That is racist...

The evidence.. it's not evidence. It's opinion. There's no science behind the assertion that white privilege exists. If we're talking class privilege then, fine. But we're not. We're talking about racial privilege. A phrase that is not directed equally, but instead focused on white people,

Foxtrol wrote: »

Oh yeah, Detroit, where white folk just can't get a chance. 13 times the net wealth just isn't enough :rolleyes:
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So, every white person in Detroit is wealthy? :rolleyes:

The example is reasonable. There are places where white people are a minority, and just as with Black people, there will be sections who are richer/poorer...

Foxtrol

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I have yet to see/hear a BLM member or supporter come out and condemn those remarks. They love to use the "Silence= Complicity" against us so I'm happy to use it here against them. Their silence clearly shows that they support this mindset and have it themselves.

I'm a BLM supporter and if she meant 'burn down New York' then I condemn her.

Given how I've been at several marches that were either attended or ran by BLM and they consistently preach non-violence and have stewards to quell issues, I'd believe she was speaking rhetorically about 'burning down the system'.

Can't stop certain folk from being paranoid about what black people say, while at the same time believing every time Trump says something outrageous he is being rhetorical. They have an agenda to push and other people to scare.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

So, every white person in Detroit is wealthy? :rolleyes:

The example is reasonable. There are places where white people are a minority, and just as with Black people, there will be sections who are richer/poorer...

Who said every white person is wealthy? You and other posters with your opinion keep arguing against what you wished the term meant, rather than what has been repeatedly explained to you.

Every white person, however, doesn't have to deal with the same proven systematic issues that a black person does, when all else is equal in their lives.

You gave an example of where white people were supposed to be some sort of discriminated against minority and it turns out white people have 13 times the net wealth.

ELM327

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who said every white person is wealthy? You and other posters with your opinion keep arguing against what you wished the term meant, rather than what has been repeatedly explained to you.

Every white person, however, doesn't have to deal with the same proven systematic issues that a black person does, when all else is equal in their lives.

You gave an example of where white people were supposed to be some sort of discriminated against minority and it turns out white people have 13 times the net wealth.

A black person can go and burn stuff down, attack law enforcement and fence off areas without fear of legal recourse.
As a white person I cannot do this.

cfuserkildare

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who said every white person is wealthy? You and other posters with your opinion keep arguing against what you wished the term meant, rather than what has been repeatedly explained to you.

Every white person, however, doesn't have to deal with the same proven systematic issues that a black person does, when all else is equal in their lives.

You gave an example of where white people were supposed to be some sort of discriminated against minority and it turns out white people have 13 times the net wealth.

You seem to forget that we are currently in a country which is predominantly white, No matter how much some people dont like it, thats the way it is.


We are not somewhere in Africa, or India, or the Arab States, or the Far East either.



We Are In North Western Europe, and historically, Biololgically we are a predominantly White race/Society.


If we were in America, then different story due to the immigration into an almost empty continent.



But here we already have a pre-existing civilisation, and outsiders coming in are guests.


Deal With It!!!

Foxtrol

ELM327 wrote: »

A black person can go and burn stuff down, attack law enforcement and fence off areas without fear of legal recourse.
As a white person I cannot do this.

Nearly a month ago the count of people arrested was 10,000 and since then there have been daily marches of thousands of people, so that number is likely significantly higher now.

But yeah, protesters can do what they want without fear of legal recourse... :rolleyes:

Do people even try to investigate this stuff before typing or are they happy to live in the world of their imagination/Fox News?

https://apnews.com/bb2404f9b13c8b53b94c73f818f6a0b7

Foxtrol

cfuserkildare wrote: »

You seem to forget that we are currently in a country which is predominantly white, No matter how much some people dont like it, thats the way it is.

We are not somewhere in Africa, or India, or the Arab States, or the Far East either.

We Are In North Western Europe, and historically, Biololgically we are a predominantly White race/Society.

If we were in America, then different story due to the immigration into an almost empty continent.

But here we already have a pre-existing civilisation, and outsiders coming in are guests.

Deal With It!!!

I live in a country where many white people have ancestors that if not literally owned the ancestors of black people, benefited from a society that segregated them and didn't see them or give them rights as a full person.

It is many here who don't want to 'deal' with those facts and prefer to put their heads in the sand and act like spoiled children regarding how that still impacts society and opportunities.

cfuserkildare

Foxtrol wrote: »

I live in a country where many white people have ancestors that if not literally owned the ancestors of black people, benefited from a society that segregated them and didn't see them or give them rights as a full person.

It is many here who don't want to 'deal' with those facts and prefer to put their heads in the sand and act like spoiled children regarding how that still impacts society and opportunities.

So you live in a coutry that did what almost Every civilisation in the World did?
If you live in Western Europe, then chances are high that at some point in the past your own ancestors were slaves too, whether it was Celt, Roman, Angle, Saxon, Norman, English, German, or any of the other societies that took slaves and invaded other countries, so tell me this,



If slaves taken from Africa endured 400 years of Slavery,

And Europeans endured 2'700 of slavery, then Who Had It Worst??

OMM 0000

Foxtrol wrote: »

Similarly, the world seems to be full of stupid/childish people that can't understand that you can support elements of an organizations aims without supporting every one of their philosophies.

Then you're not a BLM supporter.

Try to think before you type.

Before you reply, ask yourself this:

Are you a Nazi supporter because you think the autobahns and engineering were good?

TomTomTim

Foxtrol wrote: »

I live in a country where many white people have ancestors that if not literally owned the ancestors of black people, benefited from a society that segregated them and didn't see them or give them rights as a full person.

Many? The percentage of slave owners has been estimated as being as low as 4 or 5%.

cfuserkildare

I think everyone should pay attention to that Terry Crews said.

The movement seems to have moved from Black Lives Matter, to a discriminatory Black Lives Better attitude, which is not acceptable either.

All Lives Matter!!!

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who said every white person is wealthy? You and other posters with your opinion keep arguing against what you wished the term meant, rather than what has been repeatedly explained to you.

Repeatedly explained to me? Hardly. I've seen a variety of interpretations by posters here, which don't match the dialogue that comes from activists in or associated with BLM. You can jump around the definition of what Privilege is, all you want, but we're going by what's thrown around by advocates, who are the ones who demand that we check our privilege...

Every white person, however, doesn't have to deal with the same proven systematic issues that a black person does, when all else is equal in their lives.

No. True enough they don't. Neither do black people. Not every Black person faces the same amount racism or experiences direct discrimination. Just as many White people do not have access to educational services, or come from stable households. The point being that using a term like White Privilege seeks to generalise, and thus put a single race into a box to be poked at. It ignores the complexity of human lives.

It's racial stereotyping.

You gave an example of where white people were supposed to be some sort of discriminated against minority and it turns out white people have 13 times the net wealth.

Actually, no I didn't. I didn't even suggest that the white community in Detroit were being discriminated against. The scenario was in relation to what would happen should White Privilege be accepted and quotas introduced to offset that privilege...

Read what I posted again. Just read it before looking to tear it down.

southstar

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This is all too stupid.

Almost no one thinks black lives don't matter.

The problem is Black Lives Matter is an insane organisation which no normal person should support.

Unfortunately the world is full of stupid lazy people who want to virtue signal, so organisations like BLM will continue gaining power and wealth.

And Justin Bieber can like them on Twitter

Foxtrol

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So you live in a coutry that did what almost Every civilisation in the World did?
If you live in Western Europe, then chances are high that at some point in the past your own ancestors were slaves too, whether it was Celt, Roman, Angle, Saxon, Norman, English, German, or any of the other societies that took slaves and invaded other countries, so tell me this,



If slaves taken from Africa endured 400 years of Slavery,

And Europeans endured 2'700 of slavery, then Who Had It Worst??

Do you think how recent it was makes a difference?

JL555

I don't believe what Mike Wedderburn says about BLM being a 'cry for help' the founders of BLM are self proclaimed as being marxist trained, and we all know how well that ended up in the 20th century.

On a side note; "Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One team has announced that their cars will don a black livery for the 2020 season...", I as a cynic, would wonder if they are aware that they are supporting an organisation founded by marxists, or the twisted part of me might say, is this an automobile version of black face? or maybe it's simply a good business decision from their perspective right now to be seen to support the one of the current causes.

Mr. Karate

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm a BLM supporter and if she meant 'burn down New York' then I condemn her.

Given how I've been at several marches that were either attended or ran by BLM and they consistently preach non-violence and have stewards to quell issues, I'd believe she was speaking rhetorically about 'burning down the system'.

Can't stop certain folk from being paranoid about what black people say, while at the same time believing every time Trump says something outrageous he is being rhetorical. They have an agenda to push and other people to scare.

"If this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it," said Hawk Newsome, chairman of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York, during an interview with Fox News. "I could be speaking figuratively, I could be speaking literally. It's a matter of interpretation."

Newsome went on to clarify that while "I don't condone nor do I condemn rioting," the measurable change that has occurred in recent weeks began in the wake of property destruction caused by rioters.

Those are his words.

Don't kid yourself. The only reason they're preaching peace here is because there's not enough Blacks in Ireland. With all the establishment parties pro-open borders and pro-mass immigration that stance will change in a year or two once there are more of them here.

Foxtrol

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Then you're not a BLM supporter.

Try to think before you type.

Before you reply, ask yourself this:

Are you a Nazi supporter because you think the autobahns and engineering were good?

Thanks for highlighting how ridiculous your position is.

In your example, you're saying that anyone who supports autobahns is an Nazi.

I support police reform, it does not mean I support BLM's Marxist policies

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I live in a country where many white people have ancestors that if not literally owned the ancestors of black people, benefited from a society that segregated them and didn't see them or give them rights as a full person.

You live in the States? Fine then.

You live in a country where a significant percent of the population arrived after the civil war, and had no choice in how the country developed, just as they had no choice in how the discrimination of Black people occurred. You also live in a country where there are, as many, Black people as African Americans who were not descended from slaves.

The idea that white people, en mass, supported the segregation of Black people is collective guilt and just plain horrible. As if the average White person (or any racial background) had much choice in how the country developed, when throughout America's political history, it's been run by the wealthy elite.

It is many here who don't want to 'deal' with those facts and prefer to put their heads in the sand and act like spoiled children regarding how that still impacts society and opportunities.

Ahh well... most of us are Irish and don't have the same history of racism, and victimization that the US has. We moved away (for the most part) from our victim complex at the hands of the British Empire, and embraced the need to move on with things. Whereas the US has been stuck in a rut since the Civil rights movement, and hasn't really moved forward.

But yes, many of us don't buy into those playing the victim card at every opportunity, and don't particularly like being hit with reverse racism, especially when it's justified by actions none of us (or our culture) was ever involved in.

OMM 0000

Foxtrol wrote: »

Thanks for highlighting how ridiculous your position is.

In your example, you're saying that anyone who supports autobahns is an Nazi.

I support police reform, it does not mean I support BLM's Marxist policies

Why are you ignoring the context of our previous conversation?

You're being dishonest in your attempt to "win".

I said this:

The problem is Black Lives Matter is an insane organisation which no normal person should support.

You replied with this:

Similarly, the world seems to be full of stupid/childish people that can't understand that you can support elements of an organizations aims without supporting every one of their philosophies.

At this point you're saying it's fine to support BLM but not 100% support all their activities.

So using your logic I said this:

Are you a Nazi supporter because you think the autobahns and engineering were good?

Let's replace BLM with Nazi to explain this.

Me:

The problem is the Nazi party are an insane organisation which no normal person should support.

You:

Similarly, the world seems to be full of stupid/childish people that can't understand that you can support elements of an organizations aims without supporting every one of their philosophies.

Do you understand now?

Of course, this is the internet, so you won't be able to concede anything and will just double down.

Have you noticed almost everyone here has a problem with your posts?

Why do you this that is?

cfuserkildare

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you think how recent it was makes a difference?

We kind of, yes.

African tribes sold enslaved Africans to white traders.

Are we obliged to forget that too

Or is the whole thing saying that Only White People Had Slaves??

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Repeatedly explained to me? Hardly. I've seen a variety of interpretations by posters here, which don't match the dialogue that comes from activists in or associated with BLM. You can jump around the definition of what Privilege is, all you want, but we're going by what's thrown around by advocates, who are the ones who demand that we check our privilege...

So you're admitting to not actually dealing with what is being explained to you in this thread and instead sticking with some imagined combination of 'activists' that live in your head. Clearly there is no point in continuing that discussion.

No. True enough they don't. Neither do black people. Not every Black person faces the same amount racism or experiences direct discrimination. Just as many White people do not have access to educational services, or come from stable households. The point being that using a term like White Privilege seeks to generalise, and thus put a single race into a box to be poked at. It ignores the complexity of human lives.

It's racial stereotyping.

No one is saying every black person has the same experience. Again, you're arguing against something in your own head rather than what I'm writing.

Actually, no I didn't. I didn't even suggest that the white community in Detroit were being discriminated against. The scenario was in relation to what would happen should White Privilege be accepted and quotas introduced to offset that privilege...

Read what I posted again. Just read it before looking to tear it down.

White families have 13 times the net wealth of black families. Whether you want to go down the route of quotas or another way, that level of inequality is outrageous and something should be done (on top of the minor current measures)

cfuserkildare

cfuserkildare wrote: »

We kind of, yes.

African tribes sold enslaved Africans to white traders.

Are we obliged to forget that too

Or is the whole thing saying that Only White People Had Slaves??

Except, that there were Black people who owned slaves in the US.... It's just not worth talking about because they were a minority. Hold white people up to a higher standard, that Black people aren't held accountable for. Which is why the sale of slaves by tribes in Africa is irrelevant, or that Africa had a culture of slavery long before the white man came along (besides their own domestic market, they also sold to the Turks and other parts of the M.East).

Double standards are the rule here.

Silentcorner

I think the BLM movement is a combination of two key components.

The anarchists/marxists who have been getting louder and louder have embraced this movement, along with the SJWs and Feminists who all believe the system needs to come down....most of these are the so called useful idiots.

The other component I suspect, has more to do with the grip the democratic party has over the black community in the US, I think they have lost that grip, they know it...even though most people don't recognise it, the current administration was far more beneficial to the black community especially those in the inner cities, between the tax breaks, enterprise/investment zones and the First step act, than any administration in the last few decades...they would know this themselves they see it in the meetings, committees, party branches, these peaceful marches are I believe predominantly white people and democrat voters....they know the jig is up.

You won't see any of that reflected in the news cycle, we are being misinformed all the time, anyone who consumes news media that is!!

Foxtrol

TomTomTim wrote: »

Many? The percentage of slave owners has been estimated as being as low as 4 or 5%.

Did you just stop reading mid sentence?

Foxtrol wrote: »

I live in a country where many white people have ancestors that if not literally owned the ancestors of black people, benefited from a society that segregated them and didn't see them or give them rights as a full person.

southstar

The white privilege assumption is lazy and inane and from many users simply dishonest and self serving.But it's definitely inane.
What use could this supposed privilege be for a white woman unfairly rejected in favour of a black man...a gay white man rejected in favour of a black straight woman...an older Irish white woman rejected in favour of a younger American black man...and on it goes....no nuance or context...the world is capable of being endlessly populated by these notions of privilege/inequities real or imagined...and thats the silliness of it all

Foxtrol

cfuserkildare wrote: »

We kind of, yes.

African tribes sold enslaved Africans to white traders.

Are we obliged to forget that too

Or is the whole thing saying that Only White People Had Slaves??

Glad we agree, your earlier point was ridiculous.

How many black slave owners were there in the US? After the slaves were freed were there certain black folk that had equal rights?

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're admitting to not actually dealing with what is being explained to you in this thread and instead sticking with some imagined combination of 'activists' that live in your head. Clearly there is no point in continuing that discussion.

Oh, we're having a discussion, are we? That would mean that you would be dealing with the points I've written, as I've written them? Wow, I must have missed that somehow.

No one is saying every black person has the same experience. Again, you're arguing against something in your own head rather than what I'm writing.

No, you're right. They're not. They're saying that White privilege is something that white people have, and Black people are lacking in privilege.

Notice the absence of some, many, etc.? Threads like these are littered with comments like that...

White families have 13 times the net wealth of black families. Whether you want to go down the route of quotas or another way, that level of inequality is outrageous and something should be done (on top of the minor current measures)

No, I agree. Something should be done. But not based on generating further divisions between the races. There should be genuine efforts to break up the racial communities, implement greater integration of all races together, along with serious investment for education, employment etc. A movement to push Black culture away from idolizing criminal elements, and towards far more positive objectives. Less excuses made for failure, and more encouragement for success.

Tell me how

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Have you noticed almost everyone here has a problem with your posts?

Why do you this that is?

Going by Boards, Peter Casey was going to walk in to Aras an Uachtarain.
There's probably no more than 20 unique posters posting on this thread in the last 24 hours. It is far from a reference point to what society thinks.

Foxtrol

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Why are you ignoring the context of our previous conversation?

You're being dishonest in your attempt to "win".

I said this:

You replied with this:

At this point you're saying it's fine to support BLM but not 100% support all their activities.

So using your logic I said this:

Let's replace BLM with Nazi to explain this.

Me:

You:

Do you understand now?

Of course, this is the internet, so you won't be able to concede anything and will just double down.

Have you noticed almost everyone here has a problem with your posts?

Why do you this that is?

Unless you're claiming BLM is calling for a genocide of a religious group then I don't know where you're going trying to continue to push that comparison.

As people not agreeing with me, look at the earlier posts. People get tired discussing these topics after a while as posters from a certain 'perspective' are very noisy bunch online because in general they wouldnt dare say this stuff in public. It is their only safe space.

OMM 0000

Foxtrol wrote: »

Unless you're claiming BLM is calling for a genocide of a religious group then I don't know where you're going trying to continue to push that comparison.

As people not agreeing with me, look at the earlier posts. People get tired discussing these topics after a while as posters from a certain 'perspective' are very noisy bunch online because in general they wouldnt dare say this stuff in public. It is their only safe space.

Stop pretending I think BLM and the Nazis are something equivalent.

My point was your logic is it's fine to support an insane organisation as long as you ignore their bad points.

That's a horrid position to take.