BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Broadstone Bob

Broadstone Bob wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOxnld8yeEs

Bobby boy. Your true colours have shown through. England number one, eh? Woof woof!

gozunda

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Kenosha police, who first thanked and later failed to arrest Kyle Rittenhouse as he stood before them with his assault rifle slung over his shoulder which he had just used to shoot three people, killing two, have arrested people sending foox to protesters.

They claim the people had fireworks (which the defendants deny) and were filling canisters with fuel (which the defendants say was for fuelling generators for cooking etc) - either side could be telling the truth in those instances, so there's not much to be drawn from it. But in a real eyebrow raiser, the police also claim the defendants had "shields" with them. These "shields" they were referring to, turned out to be facemasks.

So, underage kid illegally carrying a gun they don't even own downtown is ok and he even gets thanked for it, while a facemask in a crowded public area is a potential weapon to be used for combat.

It's almost as if they are applying the laws differently, depending on the political leanings of the people in question.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kenosha-police-arrest-volunteers-who-provide-food-protesters-n1238799

A biased account no?. The two incidents are not related as far as I can see.

Afaik the 'thanking allegedly happened before any serious happened.

They claim the people had fireworks. Yes there are videos showing protestors throwing what I presume are fireworks. Dont know anymore than that

Of note Kyle Rittenhouse was not the only individual with a gun. Protestors were also armed. Whatever you or I think about guns unfortunately carrying them openly in that state is not illegal or an arrestable offence.

Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested after the shooting.

The protests in the city have been responsible for widespread looting and destruction of property. Parts of the city have been reduced to rubble and now look like a war zone.

Are you seriously suggesting the police should not investigate that issue? Yes there will be suspects based on suspicious behaviour or reports. Do the police sometime make mistakes or recieve incorrect information. Yes they do.

Are there bad cops? Yes there are. However the job of any normal policeman in that city must be terrifying considering the calls of blm supporters to murder all police personel.

That said aligning the story along racist lines is perhaps unsurprising given that is more likley to get clicks than more responsible reporting.

Carfacemandog

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

The same protesters that were blocking the road that got Maced? If you stand in the middle of the road blocking traffic well you get what your deserve I suppose, did your mother never teach you to not play on the road, but but but the BLM supporters were saying he shot first and it was a retaliation!!! Another bulls#it mad up story, haha pro Trump supporters will ya never feck off, read back through the long thread, most of us here don't give a dam about Trump it's the holy BLM that we have trouble with, there supporters can't be called out on anything cos were "pro trump", Jaysus ya'll be calling a Nazi next

Point me to people in this thread defending the shooter, like we have seen with pro trump/anti BLM posters and Rittenhouse.

Broadstone Bob

I saw Rittenhouse's lawyer on twitter allude to some US code that says any able-bodied male from 17 - 45 who is part of an unofficial militia (official being the National Guard) as being able to carry a gun 9 (something like that). Not sure exactly what he was getting at but it was interesting and maybe a route he will go down.

I believe the militia met with the cops that day (in a church if I remember correctly) to discuss what properties they will be protecting etc. Also there is a video where one of the militia members says he is protecting Rittenhouse so maybe there is something about adult supervision?

Carfacemandog

gozunda wrote: »

A biased account no?. The two incidents are not related as far as I can see.

Afaik the 'thanking allegedly happened before any serious happened.

They claim the people had fireworks. Yes there are videos showing protestors throwing what I presume are fireworks. Dont know anymore than that

Of note Kyle Rittenhouse was not the only individual with a gun. Protestors were also armed. Whatever you or I think about guns unfortunately carrying them openly in that state is not illegal or an arrestable offence.

Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested after the shooting.

The protests in the city have been responsible for widespread looting and destruction of property. Parts of the city have been reduced to rubble and now look like a war zone.

Are you seriously suggesting the police should not investigate that issue? Yes there will be suspects based on suspicious behaviour or reports. Do the police sometime make mistakes or recieve incorrect information. Yes they do.

Are there bad cops? Yes there are. However the job of any normal policeman in that city must be terrifying considering the calls of blm supporters to murder all police personel.

That said aligning the story along racist lines is perhaps unsurprising given that is more likley to get clicks than more responsible reporting.

1. Open carry in wisconsin is illegal if under 18. Rittenhouse is under 18.

2. I am suggesting if police were treating people the same, Rittenhouse would have been asked to prove he was the legal owner of the gun and was legally eligible for open carry. Instead, thy were high giving him and thanking him for what appears to be breaking the law.

3. He was arrested the next day. He is right there, on camera, being allowed walk away with the assault rifle still over his shoulder despite shooting 3 people and killing 2 moments earlier

4. The police are literally standing by their claim that facemasks were 'shields'. The fireworks and gas canister items are open for debate, but that shields/masks bit is a major red flag. By that standard, police can stop anyone adhering to health recommendations during covid for carrying a weapon on their face.

5. Who brought up racism?

Broadstone Bob

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Point me to people in this thread defending the shooter, like we have seen with pro trump/anti BLM posters and Rittenhouse.

Hard to make any comment on that one as there is little to go on. The Kenosha case had so much video evidence.

I did say today that it was the far righters approaching the shooter and the victim having bear mace in a leg holster so easily mistaken for a gun.

Carfacemandog

Broadstone Bob wrote: »

Hard to make any comment on that one as there is little to go on. The Kenosha case had so much video evidence.

I did say today that it was the far righters approaching the shooter and the victim having bear mace in a leg holster so easily mistaken for a gun.

There's a video from across the street that shows a quick mist) which must have been the mace) go off, followed by the guy who got **** making 3 or 4 strides away before being shot from Behudn y the person he had a tussle with.

It appears the guy who got shot used the mace as it W's in his hand, not sure if the other had the gun before or disarmed mace guy (probably not, but he did have a holster). Either way he was running away and should not have been shot, and especially not in the upper back/head which is appears to be from how quick he slumped.

The shooter deserves what he has coming to him, in my opinion.

Broadstone Bob

Carfacemandog wrote: »

There's a video from across the street that shows a quick mist) which must have been the mace) go off, followed by the guy who got **** making 3 or 4 strides away before being shot from Behudn y the person he had a tussle with.

It appears the guy who got shot used the mace as it W's in his hand, not sure if the other had the gun before or disarmed mace guy (probably not, but he did have a holster). Either way he was running away and should not have been shot, and especially not in the upper back/head which is appears to be from how quick he slumped.

The shooter deserves what he has coming to him, in my opinion.

Of the 2 videos available Ill speculate that the victim and his mates (one on road, 2 in the jeep) were cruising looking for some "lefties" to bash. Its happened before and the audio to me sounds like the trump fans. I'd say the shooter (who was shot in the arm a few months previous) saw him taking the mace out and figured it was a gun.

Ofcourse Im just speculating

Cody montana

Joe Biden: “I condemn this violence unequivocally. I condemn violence of every kind by anyone, whether on the left or the right. And I challenge Donald Trump to do the same"

So true.

Biafranlivemat

biko wrote: »

Half of Americans has an IQ below 100.

Which group in America,mosty falls below the 100IQ level.

brentanrodgers

Cody montana wrote: »

Joe Biden: “I condemn this violence unequivocally. I condemn violence of every kind by anyone, whether on the left or the right. And I challenge Donald Trump to do the same"

So true.

Fair play to him, it only took him 4 months.

Cody montana

brentanrodgers wrote: »

Fair play to him, it only took him 4 months.

Still waiting for the actual president to say something.

Tell me how

brentanrodgers wrote: »

Fair play to him, it only took him 4 months.

From June 2nd

No place for looting or destroying property or burning churches, or destroying businesses — many of them built by people of color who for the first time were beginning to realize their dreams and build wealth for their families.

Nor is it acceptable for our police — sworn to protect and serve all people — to escalate tensions or resort to excessive violence.

We need to distinguish between legitimate peaceful protest — and opportunistic violent destruction.

And we must be vigilant about the violence that's being done by the incumbent president to our democracy and to the pursuit of justice.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Half of Americans has an IQ below 100.

The irony of the grammar here. :pac:

By definition, approximately two-thirds of the population scores are between IQ 85 and IQ 115. About 2.5 percent of the population scores above 130, and 2.5 percent below 70.

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

From June 2nd

And numerous statements all week

Biafranlivemat

Deleted User wrote: »

Protests have firstly been largely peaceful. Black Americans face disproportionate treatment from the Police. This includes Police brutality. That's been recognized as an issue for decades and has resulted in deaths. These deaths include Eric Garner, Tamir Rice(who was only twelve) and Michael Brown.

In relation to available evidence, you're happy to label a movement of millions based on 3 people. No statistician would classify that as an acceptable sample size. You then attempted to use conviction levels of black people to bolster that argument. The logic would follow that you're happy to label black people in general as a bunch of criminals.

Why do "Black Americans face disproportionate treatment from the Police"

Overheal

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Why do "Black Americans face disproportionate treatment from the Police"

You may wish to start here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/opinions/systemic-racism-police-evidence-criminal-justice-system/

Tell me how

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Why do "Black Americans face disproportionate treatment from the Police"

Would like to ask that question of this guy and the deputies in his office.

Overheal

Or these police officers in Wilmington, NC:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/25/wilmington-racist-police-recording/

“We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f

---

n

---

,” he said.

The shocking threat came amid extended, openly racist conversations between Piner, 44, and two other police officers, 50-year-old Cpl. Jesse E. Moore II, and 48-year-old Officer James “Brian” Gilmore. In the discussions, taped by accident on a patrol car camera and released Wednesday by the department, the men freely drop racial slurs, suggest killing black residents and deride protesters.

“Wipe 'em off the f

---

map,” Piner said of African Americans. “That’ll put 'em back about four or five generations.”

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

Would like to ask that question of this guy and the deputies in his office.

Here is the audio. NSFW

Carfacemandog

Overheal wrote: »

Or these police officers in Wilmington, NC:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/25/wilmington-racist-police-recording/

“We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f

---

n

---

,” he said.

The shocking threat came amid extended, openly racist conversations between Piner, 44, and two other police officers, 50-year-old Cpl. Jesse E. Moore II, and 48-year-old Officer James “Brian” Gilmore. In the discussions, taped by accident on a patrol car camera and released Wednesday by the department, the men freely drop racial slurs, suggest killing black residents and deride protesters.

“Wipe 'em off the f

---

map,” Piner said of African Americans. “That’ll put 'em back about four or five generations.”

Thats before we get on to the racist street gangs police operate like the Jump Out Boys, the 2000 Boys, the 3000 Boys, the Regulators, the Grim Reapers, the Little Devils and the Lynwood Vikings, who federal judges have labelled a neo Nazi group.

These are not street gangs that a police officer or two have found to be members of, to be clear - they are gangs comprised solely of police officers.

This is what happens when you let the 'bad apples' fester for long enough.

Spiderman0081

Cody montana wrote: »

Joe Biden: “I condemn this violence unequivocally. I condemn violence of every kind by anyone, whether on the left or the right. And I challenge Donald Trump to do the same"

So true.

What is so true? Is this sarcasm? I’m confused

gozunda

Carfacemandog wrote: »

1. Open carry in wisconsin is illegal if under 18. Rittenhouse is under 18.

2. I am suggesting if police were treating people the same, Rittenhouse would have been asked to prove he was the legal owner of the gun and was legally eligible for open carry. Instead, thy were high giving him and thanking him for what appears to be breaking the law.

Not excusing anything but the point there were many people with guns both protestors and non protestors. He was 17. Considering what was ongoing that night - it is unlikely that the police were able to check that eveyone there held their gun legally. I checked the thanking reference and it appears it was made to a group. Certainly not a professional and a stupid thing to say tbh - though it is certainly possible that some police might have believed that these people weren't going to attack them compared to ongoing threats from extremists. Also the issue of gun legality has been discussed here if you're interested.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114466863&postcount=373

Carfacemandog wrote:

3. He was arrested the next day. He is right there, on camera, being allowed walk away with the assault rifle still over his shoulder despite shooting 3 people and killing 2 moments earlier

Again afaik he turns himself the following day. Video shows him walking toward police after the shooting with his hands up. Officers allegedly were not aware he was the shooter and told Rittenhouse to get out of the way in the chaos which followed.

Carfacemandog wrote:

4. The police are literally standing by their claim that facemasks were 'shields'. The fireworks and gas canister items are open for debate, but that shields/masks bit is a major red flag. By that standard, police can stop anyone adhering to health recommendations during covid for carrying a weapon on their face.

Tbh no idea what to make of that story. But a red flag for what? I somehow doubt police everywhere are going to do that tbh.

Carfacemandog wrote:

5. Who brought up racism?

Its more the angle from a reading of that article.

Biafranlivemat

Overheal wrote: »

Hawaiians can and do speak Spanish. Looking Hispanic and speaking Spanish doesn’t make someone Hispanic. Native Americans, Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, Inuit etc heritaged people could all easily be mistaken for “looking Hispanic” and given Spanish is the 2nd most common language in North America, is not actually that preposterous for people to know how to speak and most American business function bilingually. ‘Para español, marcar cinco.’



So you were there in the drive thru and you saw a man in a security uniform waiting in the waiting area of the Burger King? The same place people wait while their orders are made, when they order inside. There’s reasonable doubt to whether he isn’t simply a customer eating fast food, same as you were at the time.



What was the question again sorry

The question that you and other posters ignore is
This picture shows a ARMED security guard at a Burger King in a 'black' neighborhood.
Is this a sign of Racism.

Carfacemandog

gozunda wrote: »

Not excusing anything but the point there were many people with guns both protestors and non protestors. He was 17. Considering what was ongoing that night - it is unlikely that the police were able to check that eveyone there held their gun legally. I checked the thanking reference and it appears it was made to a group. Certainly not a professional and a stupid thing to say tbh - though it is certainly possible that some police might have believed that these people weren't going to attack them compared to ongoing threats from extremists. Also the issue of gun legality has been discussed here if you're interested.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114466863&postcount=373



Again afaik he turns himself the following day. Video shows him walking toward police after the shooting with his hands up. Officers allegedly were not aware he was the shooter and told Rittenhouse to get out of the way in the chaos which followed.




Tbh no idea what to make of that story. But a red flag for what? I somehow doubt police everywhere are going to do that tbh.



Its more the angle from a reading of that article.

I would think a good way to ensure you don't get incidents (or rather, get less of them) is to spot check armed protesters and counter protesters looking for proof of the ownership of their weapons. Failure to do so frankly strikes me as just plain bad policing.

What I feel the shield bit is possibly indicative of, is a want to find a reason to arrest these people, which we have seen numerous instances of over these protests against people not doing anything to be arrested or attacked over.

Which makes Rittenhouse being allowed to walk even more outrageous. As you noted, he did not try to run and hide, and stood there with his hands up in guilt. The people in the street were shouting at them that he had shot people, and he wasn't denying it - being 17 he was likely just utterly bricking himself. Much like how the police seemed like they may have been determined to arrest those bringing food even if they had to make dubious claims about masks/shields to do so, they appear to have looked at Rittenhouse - armed with a gun following a gunfire incident - and decided he couldn't have done anything because he didn't fit the profile of the protesters. There is a bang of prejudging who is and is not guilty of crimes by the police on the street, based on their perceived political affiliations/side taken. It comes over as an appalling failure of the police, especially in the wake of the Jacob Blake incident in this same city that fuelled these riots to begin with.

To be clear I don't think the cops knew he was the shooter and decided to let him go anyway, I think they looked at his profile and decided (despite people shouting he was the shooter) that it wasn't him, despite the very visible gun strapped around his shoulder and multiple people roaring at them that he had done it. It looks like the latest in a lign line of horrendous policing seen across the US in recent months and years, rather than something like the incidents in Oregon and Philadelphia where police have coordinated with far right groups.

Overheal

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

The question that you and other posters ignore is
This picture shows a ARMED security guard at a Burger King in a 'black' neighborhood.
Is this a sign of Racism.

How do you surmise anyone in the photo is armed? How do you rule out the uncertainty that he could have left his weapon in his car or at work etc and is not actually armed inside this establishment?

Do you think it is a sign of racism?

Biafranlivemat

weldoninhio wrote: »

Scum like that BLM leader who called the looting “reparations” show exactly what that movement is about.

“The Chicago Black Lives Matter organizer who justified looting as “reparation” has doubled down — insisting this week that even calling someone a criminal is “based on racism.”

Ariel Atkins told WBEZ that her group “100 percent” supports the violent looters who trashed chunks of the Windy City on Monday, again repeating her claim that it is “reparations.”

here is a defense of looting, interview by NPR, which is the American version of RTE.
Best part is the how a bookstore wasn't looted, that tells a lot about the looters.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting

Foxtrol

drunkmonkey911 wrote: »

Of course it matters. If they were merely exercising their right to cross the street, which they may well have been doing, that's completely acceptable. But the clip doesn't demonstrate that. Again, the clip is too short and doesn't provide context.



You're straying from the evidence and responding emotionally.

I'm stating facts. The video shows people on the street when there is a 'green man' to walk across. It also shows a pickup driving through them while a guy in the back maces them.

What are you proposing the people that are in front of the pickup might be doing that allows for the pickup to drive through them an mace them?

Foxtrol

BattleCorp wrote: »

You do realise that you are arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me because you even agreed with my summation of it before. See your own quote below from post #3858.

But I'll answer your question nonetheless.

It's not less bad. It's just a different sort of assault, and it shouldn't be allowed to continue. I've already condemned it. If the person in the van reasonably fears for their life, then I would be ok with them using self-defence. I just gave a couple of options in my earlier post for different levels of response.

I suppose it all depends on the level of threat the person in the van feels. There is a smidgeon of protection in the van as there is a shield around you. So maybe, just maybe you might feel a little safer in it and maybe, just maybe, be expected to show a tiny bit more restraint. But that can be argued eitherways but if the person in the van shot someone who was attacking the van, I'd probably be ok with it. KR had no shield around him so it's not quite the same as the van.

Anyway, what has the van incident got to do with the circumstances about the KR shooting? That's just whataboutism.

Another way of wording that is KR acted completely legally.

Call it whataboutism if you wish, what I wanted to do was test the consistency of the pro 'self defense' advocates and the silence of most and your flip flopping has said it all.

Where we've got to at this point is that apparently if you're trigger happy and you feel threatened you're happy for folks to do whatever they want.

Foxtrol

Seems like many are all for promoting and calling for battles until there are casualties.

There is absolutely no need to promote counter protests or using intimidation tactics on each other. It never ends well

https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1300123095097774080?s=20