BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

A simple analogy?

That doesn't make any sense.

Simple for most people.

Apologies.

Broadstone Bob

BLM outraged the victim in L.A. was shot by police as, wait for it.....

...he had already dropped his gun after attacking the officer.

Tell me how

Broadstone Bob wrote: »

BLM outraged the victim in L.A. was shot by police as, wait for it.....

...he had already dropped his gun after attacking the officer.

So, what you are saying is, it was acceptable to shoot an unarmed person?

Is that your position?

OMM 0000

Tell me how wrote: »

Sounds like some police reform is necessary so doesn't it.

Fair play to black people for getting the ball rolling while white people sit on their hands.

I don't think anyone disagrees that police reform is necessary.

If your idea of "getting the ball rolling" on police reform is rioting and killings, then you are an extremist. BLM are toxic and a huge problem and should be denounced by all rational, reasonable people.

I don't think you're posting in good faith so this is my last response and you're going on my ignore list.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Simple for most people.

Apologies.

Sorry pal it makes no sense. Like most of your opinions, it's seriously flawed, but by all means attempt to take the moral and intellectual high ground.

Tell me how

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think anyone disagrees that police reform is necessary.

If your idea of "getting the ball rolling" on police reform is rioting and killings, then you are an extremist. BLM are toxic and a huge problem and should be denounced by all rational, reasonable people.

BLM started in 2014 (I think) all of the protests which have turned violent have been preceded by another event of a black person dying after excessive and unwarranted police action.

Many of the people who have died in the protests, have been protesters targeted by police or vigilante gang members, or white supremacists.

Interesting how amidst all this, the BLM are viewed as the toxic ones.

LessOutragePlz

Tell me how wrote: »

For, I think the 3rd time on this thread, consider the following.

A simple analogy.
People in Ireland fly tip. Most people hate it but don't get too animated about it.
Imagine the outrage there would be if it was county councils who were doing the fly tipping.

Police are an official, public body, paid for by public taxes, charged with keeping people safe.
If they were behaving in an excessive and prejudiced manner against any sector of society, would see the same demands for change.

Why shouldn't those calls happen just because it is largely black people who are suffering in this way?

But you're missing the point entirely, if black lives matter then why don't the lives of black people killing other black people matter?

Whether they're killed by a cop or not their lives are being tragically cut short.

Tell me how

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think anyone disagrees that police reform is necessary.

If your idea of "getting the ball rolling" on police reform is rioting and killings, then you are an extremist. BLM are toxic and a huge problem and should be denounced by all rational, reasonable people.

I don't think you're posting in good faith so this is my last response and you're going on my ignore list.

I'm the one not posting in good faith. Because I'm not excusing prejudicial and excessive, and in many cases outright racist behaviour and so you are going to stick to your echo chamber.

Thanks, this post really demonstrates a point.
Brilliant.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Many of the people who have died in the protests, have been protesters targeted by police or vigilante gang members, or white supremacists.

With that in mind surely the protests are having a negative effect on those they are attempting to help? Perhaps a rethink is in order.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm the one not posting in good faith.

Finally we can agree on something.















(I'm attempting to inject some levity of course).

Broadstone Bob

Tell me how wrote: »

So, what you are saying is, it was acceptable to shoot an unarmed person?

Is that your position?

He ran when he was approached so they had no idea if he was unarmed.
They did know that he was attacking them and a gun had fallen from his possession.

Only video of the incident released so far shows him running and then after the shooting. The rest of it has been edited out for some reason. Until more evidence I have to go with the cops version of events.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

For, I think the 3rd time on this thread, consider the following.

A simple analogy.
People in Ireland fly tip. Most people hate it but don't get too animated about it.
Imagine the outrage there would be if it was county councils who were doing the fly tipping.

Police are an official, public body, paid for by public taxes, charged with keeping people safe.
If they were behaving in an excessive and prejudiced manner against any sector of society, would see the same demands for change.

Why shouldn't those calls happen just because it is largely black people who are suffering in this way?

So in your 'simple' analogy you're infering in that analogy all those councils are flytipping?

The same way you are infering that all police are "behaving in an excessive and prejudiced manner"

And that my friend is bollixs

The fact is that approx half of those fatally shot by police in the US are white. Yes there are more white people proportionally in the US. Yet FBI arrest data show that Black Americans make up the majority of suspects charged with violent crimes such as murder and robbery.

Yes change is needed for certain. Just not in the way you disingenuously are making out.

Tell me how

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

But you're missing the point entirely, if black lives matter then why don't the lives of black people killing other black people matter?

Whether they're killed by a cop or not their lives are being tragically cut short.

A - You are ignoring that much of the violence which you are referring to is, at this point, at least in some part, a consequence of the existing and historical systems and practices, be it redlining, prisons for profit and the withdrawing of supports and services which have pushed many people in such communities towards crime.

B - Given the behaviour of police towards people in black communities, do you really expect people in these communities to pick the side of the police, or the government over their neighbours and family members when police come investigating, looking for witnesses, etc. Many in such communities I expect see the police as the enemy because the police have shown them that that is how they view them for decades.

C - Protest to who? Asking for what? So that community activists can absolve the police, the government, society for not keeping them safe and to try and do their work for them and thereby putting themselves in the line of fire by criminals.

Please don't read any of the above as excusing violent or criminal behaviour, I am doing no such thing. I could also easily ask where was the concern for All Lives Matter from many who are expressing it now, before the BLM movement came to the fore.

WrenBoy

Tell me how wrote: »

Please don't read any of the above as excusing violent or criminal behaviour, I am doing no such thing. I could also easily ask where was the concern for All Lives Matter from many who are expressing it now, before the BLM movement came to the fore.

All Lives Mattering was a default concept pretty much every sane person took as a given before these supremacists came to the fore.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

Three white lads who, in your opinion, weren't very good at their jobs, should have been left at it rather than give any one else an opportunity, least of all a person of colour, irrespective of whether they are qualified to be there or not.


I mean, that argument just speaks for itself. There is no need for me to try to refute it.

Their job was to entertain. It's a commercial station. The show got consistently high ratings. It's literally a show where a few pundits talk about football matches. It's a radio show on telly. Without the banter and the craic it's nothing. RIP Soccer Saturday.

Tell me how

WrenBoy wrote: »

All Lives Mattering was a default concept pretty much every sane person took as a given before these supremacists came to the fore.

Except that wasn't the experience of many.

Either those targeted by police, or those in eternally disenfranchised communities was it?

Tell me how

weldoninhio wrote: »

Their job was to entertain. It's a commercial station. The show got consistently high ratings. It's literally a show where a few pundits talk about football matches. It's a radio show on telly. Without the banter and the craic it's nothing. RIP Soccer Saturday.

I await the reaction if they are replaced with comedians/entertainers.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

A - You are ignoring that much of the violence which you are referring to is, at this point, at least in some part, a consequence of the existing and historical systems and practices, be it redlining, prisons for profit and the withdrawing of supports and services which have pushed many people in such communities towards crime.

B - Given the behaviour of police towards people in black communities, do you really expect people in these communities to pick the side of the police, or the government over their neighbours and family members when police come investigating, looking for witnesses, etc. Many in such communities I expect see the police as the enemy because the police have shown them that that is how they view them for decades.

C - Protest to who? Asking for what? So that community activists can absolve the police, the government, society for not keeping them safe and to try and do their work for them and thereby putting themselves in the line of fire by criminals.

Please don't read any of the above as excusing violent or criminal behaviour, I am doing no such thing. I could also easily ask where was the concern for All Lives Matter from many who are expressing it now, before the BLM movement came to the fore.

Pushing that same old twisted agenda Tell me how?

The facts are that in the US - approx 73% of (local) police offices are made up of white people. Black or African American make up the next highest proportion with a further 12.2% of police officers being black or Africian American - which is roughly proportional given that the black population in the United States is just under 13%. This means that black or African Americans are not under-represented in police forces in the US.

This shows your argument of many black people universally viewing the "police as the enemy" is absolute rubbish. And its that type of misinformation which deliberately is being used by a small number of violent agitators to forment civil unrest for their own purposes.

Then there are those black police officers being attacked by black rioters and thugs and being accused of being "traitors" and threatened that they will be killed if they do not leave the police.

I'm sure some of the violent agitators of this movement would just love this to happen - as they could use that to claim that police forces do not employ an equal proportion of black people and discriminating against people of colour etc etc

The problem here is that the police cannot win.

If they arrest criminals who happen to be black then they are accused of being racist. If they patrol riots they are attacked. If they do nothing - then they are accused of not doing their job.

So no 'Tell me how' don't try and use twisted facts to excuse violent or criminal behaviour by any one regardless of their race or ethnicity

biko

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/governor-brown-portland-plan-curb-protests/index.html

Man killed in Portland shooting identified by police as Aaron J. Danielson

I don't think he was named until now.

Authorities have not yet identified a suspect in Danielson's death.

The fatal shooting came after the "Trump 2020 Cruise Rally in Portland," in which supporters of President Donald Trump gathered in cars and drove in a caravan into Portland.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

I await the reaction if they are replaced with comedians/entertainers.

Comedians/Entertainers won't work. The guys were ex-pros, some highly decorated. They knew football inside out. They were able to give insight into how the dressing room worked, how different issues would be resolved/change the dynamic of the team. Some clown trying to boost his media career isn't gonna be able to do that. If Stelling goes as well they may as well just pull the plug.

WrenBoy

Tell me how wrote: »

Except that wasn't the experience of many.

Either those targeted by police, or those in eternally disenfranchised communities was it?

Yes their lives mattered and still matter regardless of the rhetoric.
What the hell is an eternally disenfranchised community, people move in and out of the different economic strata in the US, good choices will aid in the upward mobility of an individual regardless of race just as the opposite is true, many, many, many in the black community have done this.

Gerry Hatrick

Tell me how wrote: »

Sounds like some police reform is necessary so doesn't it.

Fair play to black people for getting the ball rolling while white people sit on their hands.

52% of all known homicide victims are black. (2017 data). The perpetrators of these crimes were overwhelmingly African Americans despite being 12.7% of the US population.

This isn't the fault of white people.

CertifiedSimp

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There an awfull lot of racial attacks on white people lately and they aren't exactly hiding it either. If funny how "hate crime" hoaxes get all the coverage & trend on twitter but these racially motivated attacks... not so much. A white man shoots a black person and it’s headline news globally and immediately ASSUMED to be racism. A black man stabs a white man and admits its racism - and it’s largely ignored by the media.

This gobbsh*te stabbed a man, totally unprovoked, and said He ‘Felt The Need To Find A White Male To Kill’ after watching cop videos.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677723/amp/Black-man-stabbed-AutoZone-employee-felt-need-white-male-kill.html#click=https://t.co/zPVVC8HeE0


Black Knives matter

Sure racism against white men especially is rampant all over twitter and the likes, where the same twats preach BLM.

The leftie loonies can't wait to use the racial slur "gammon" at every opportunity.

CertifiedSimp

Tell me how wrote: »

Three white lads who, in your opinion, weren't very good at their jobs, should have been left at it rather than give any one else an opportunity, least of all a person of colour, irrespective of whether they are qualified to be there or not.


I mean, that argument just speaks for itself. There is no need for me to try to refute it.

Soccer Saturday isn't about analysis, it's about banter.

They already shoved in Glen Johnson...the man speaks like he's on death row and talks to the floor.

Harry lyme

Tell me how wrote: »

What do find toxic about supporting a community who continue to suffer prejudiced behaviour from an arm of the state?

It has no relevance in Ireland.

There is no police brutality in Ireland so what exactly is the point of taking a knee before an Irish football match. There is no context for taking the knee before an Ireland match and what is toxic is we are now being coerced into importing unnecessary American culture wars into Ireland.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

So, what you are saying is, it was acceptable to shoot an unarmed person?

Is that your position?

Like clockwork

Foxtrol

biko wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/governor-brown-portland-plan-curb-protests/index.html

I don't think he was named until now.

Conveniently left out in your quote how the Trump rally goers filled their trucks with cans of mace and paint ball guns and sprayed and shot people on the streets.

Like in Kenosha, people looked for trouble and got it.

CertifiedSimp

Foxtrol wrote: »

Conveniently left out in your quote how the Trump rally goers filled their trucks with cans of mace and paint ball guns and sprayed and shot people on the streets.

Like in Kenosha, people looked for trouble and got it.

Like Jacob Blake so?

Foxtrol

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

52% of all known homicide victims are black. (2017 data). The perpetrators of these crimes were overwhelmingly African Americans despite being 12.7% of the US population.

Like white people are overwhelming killed by other white people.

Doesn't stop Trump and right wing media having naive white folk hide under their beds from them

This isn't the fault of white people.

Well white people have been in power for nearly the entire history of the US, so made the laws and developed the society that puts them in this place. White people are directly at fault for the disparity in wealth between races and across the world those living in poverty are more likely to be involved in crime.

WrenBoy

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well white people have been in power for nearly the entire history of the US, so made the laws and developed the society that puts them in this place. White people are directly at fault for the disparity in wealth between races and across the world those living in poverty are more likely to be involved in crime.

Why didn't the "White's Plan" work on the Asian and Indian communities ??