BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

This is your statement about me.

I asked for evidence to support this. If it didn't come from you reading the thread, how did you form this opinion?

You were also asked to provide evidence to support your bizarre claims that posters with whom you disagree have a hive mind and are somehow morally suspect

Funilly enough you failed to do that ...

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol.

Ok then. If you say so.

"Lol". Nope. Other posters have already pointed out the ****e throwing. And yet here we are again...

Manic Moran

Think about that: 48 policemen killed by the general public as opposed to nearly 1,000 people killed by the police in shooting incidents only!!!!!! That's a 20-1 ratio in favour of police and that's before you begin to include deaths down to over exuberant choke holds, knees on the neck or good old-fashioned kickings.

Not exactly a fair comparison, is it? What's the ratio of police lawfully killed by the general public as opposed to the number of citizens unlawfully killed by police? (That's before you begin to include deaths due to accidents responding to crimes and pursuits and the like). The figures as I recall are that out of those 1,000 or so people shot by police, 940 or so were armed. That's not a simple equivalence, obviously, as being armed or not in itself isn't protection from or an excuse for shooting, but it's a fair indicator of the proportion, no?

nullzero

I'd like to suggest that demands of percentages of people on whatever side of this discussion be banned.

It is a nonsensical thing for anyone to demand as these percentages are based on opinion and guess work. This has been raised on numerous occasions and leads to nothing but back and forth demands for arbitrary percentages to be presented.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

It's a ridiculous question but alright I reckon 36.8% in the us are rioting.

Am I right ?

So, you think that approximately 7.36M people are engaging in rioting? (given an accepted number was that up to June, 20M had participated in protests)

Is that your position?

And if you are sticking with this number, do you think that the amount of damage which has been done by over 7M people rioting is actually very small?

And given that the US police force is in the region of 700,000 and 450,000 that rioters outnumber police by a minimum of 6:1 surely if these numbers were actually rioting, all police would be run over entirely at this point.

And finally, even if the figure was correct, the majority would still not be rioting, by a ratio of nearly 2:1, and therefore it could be still be said that the movement was a peaceful one.

So, can you give any evidence to support your figure or do you just want to admit you are talking complete and utter nonsense?

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

I'd like to suggest that demands of percentages of people on whatever side of this discussion be banned.

It is a nonsensical thing for anyone to demand as these percentages are based on opinion and guess work. This has been raised on numerous occasions and leads to nothing but back and forth demands for arbitrary percentages to be presented.

:D:D:D

What measure do you want to use to determine whether or not the movement is to be viewed as peaceful, or motivated in looting and violence?

Your request is irrefutable evidence that the numbers don't back up the claims being made.

To quote someone no doubt many here are fans of, 'facts don't care about your feelings'.

gozunda

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Police have arrested two men supporting Blue Lives Matter from Missouri who had travelled to Kenosha, Wisconsin (550km from MO's capital of St. Louis) with the intent of mass murder.



https://abcnews.go.com/US/blue-lives-matter-supporters-arrested-slew-firearms-kenosha/story?id=72808923

Well good. So the police are clearly not the bigoted anti black nazi types some are making out yes?

Is there dangerous asholes out there? Yes there are. And thats exactly why we need police.

Turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas to be fair.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

Care to enlighten us all then of the exact % of rioters and looters then ? Seeing as you seem to have it all figured out?

All I knows is that at the time when 20M people had been said to have protested, arrests were at 10K.
You can suggest that not everyone who looted was arrested, but it would also be fair to say that not everyone who was arrested had been looting. If the true number of looters was, 10 times more, for a figure of 100K (an over exaggeration I actually expect), then it still meant that 99.5% of protesters were not looting or taking part in violent activities.

If this is the case, is a group in which 99.5% of the participants are peaceful, actually a violent group?

I do not think so.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

So you were asking for % that you have no clue of yourself even ? Fair enough.

20M protesters
10K arrests
=0.05%

Was it that complicated?


Please respond to the question asked though.

Overheal

“Just comply and the police won’t use brutali-“

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/sacramento-county-sheriffs-office-launches-excessive-force-investigation/103-80227c9d-0447-4233-bfdc-ddd2255a5a6f

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

20M protesters
10K arrests
=0.05%

Was it that complicated?


Please respond to the question asked though.

I think you are talking to the same mindset who saw what 19 hijackers did to 4 planes and then profiled everyone who was muslim for the rest of time.

Sand

gozunda wrote: »

Well good. So the police are clearly not the bigoted anti black nazi types some are making out yes?

Is there dangerous asholes out there? Yes there are. And thats exactly why we need police.

Turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas to be fair.

I'd be wary of accepting the 'mass murder' narrative to be honest on this or any other issue. Remember how it was initially pretended that Rittenhouse was a gunman who opened fire on the crowd? As if he was a domestic terrorist attacking mostly peaceful protesters. Video footage proved otherwise. There is no reason to ever think the media or supporters of BLM are being truthful or aren't pushing an agenda.

From the story, they were only charged with illegal possession of firearms rather than any charges regarding an an attempt or plan to harm anyone. They probably just planned to stand around feeling tough. These are idiots who are probably 'rugged individualists' who are fanatical about the second amendment and if asked would probably say they support BLM. Like all white people, they should stay the hell away from BLM riots. Its a trap. And like Rittenhouse, they fell right into it.

Tell me how

Overheal wrote: »

I think you are talking to the same mindset who saw what 19 hijackers did to 4 planes and then profiled everyone who was muslim for the rest of time.

I know, while simultaneously saying 'It's just a few police, the rest are fine. There's no need for any action'.

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

I'd be wary of accepting the 'mass murder' narrative to be honest on this or any other issue. Remember how it was initially pretended that Rittenhouse was a gunman who opened fire on the crowd? As if he was a domestic terrorist attacking mostly peaceful protesters. Video footage proved otherwise. There is no reason to ever think the media or supporters of BLM are being truthful or aren't pushing an agenda.

From the story, they were only charged with illegal possession of firearms rather than any charges regarding an an attempt or plan to harm anyone. They probably just planned to stand around feeling tough. These are idiots who are probably 'rugged individualists' who are fanatical about the second amendment and if asked would probably say they support BLM. Like all white people, they should stay the hell away from BLM riots. Its a trap. And like Rittenhouse, they fell right into it.

Jesus wept.

Mr. Karate

BattleCorp wrote: »

Likewise, many BLM supporters only see wrong when a cop is involved in the death of a black person.

Black Lives only matter to Black Lives Matter when they're deaths can be politicized. The Body Count in Chicago would make most war zones look peaceful, but since the major of these are Black on Black so BLM [along with Sharpton and Jackson are very silent]

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

So exactly 10k have rioted? I'd be interested in a source for that figure... But you can see how silly and pointless a question it was surely by now.

If you want to have an actual discussion I'm all for it but this point scoring nonsense and made up "%" I've no interest in.

I can see that you have no argument to suggest that there is in any way a significant proportion of protesters taking part in illegal activities.

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

I think you are talking to the same mindset who saw what 19 hijackers did to 4 planes and then profiled everyone who was muslim for the rest of time.

The vast majority of tigers have never attacked a human.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

Jesus wept.

I know. These people are ridiculous.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

:D:D:D

What measure do you want to use to determine whether or not the movement is to be viewed as peaceful, or motivated in looting and violence?

Your request is irrefutable evidence that the numbers don't back up the claims being made.

To quote someone no doubt many here are fans of, 'facts don't care about your feelings'.

You made a claim a few days ago that at 0.05% of protesters (the number of that 0.05% being 10,000) engaging in violence etc... meant that BLM was inherently peaceful, but that claim ignores 10,000 arrests which all were made for numerous criminal offences.

In that case percentages aren't a reasonable guage of the peacefulness of the BLM movement.

To quote Father Ted; "say there are 200 million priests in the world and 5% are paedophiles that's still only 10 million".

The irony is that your own figures betray the fact that BLM is dogged by violence and anti social behaviour. These facts don't appear to care about your feelings it would seem.

Sand

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

That's one thing I've learned is to take the us media with a grain of salt , they seem to pander to the outrage alot of the times , it's very clickbaity and usually alot of false information.

It's more than that. A 5 year old being executed in front of his sisters would be very clickbaity too, but that story doesn't get amplified by the media.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

The vast majority of tigers have never attacked a human.

Muslims aren’t animals they are human beings, individuals. Didn’t you just make a “rugged individuals” argument? Yeah.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

I think you are talking to the same mindset who saw what 19 hijackers did to 4 planes and then profiled everyone who was muslim for the rest of time.

You're on a forum based in a country whose people were profiled in the very same way(and perhaps with some measure of good reason but that's another discussion) for decades by our nearest neighbours. Know your audience and stay in your lane.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

It's more than that. A 5 year old being executed in front of his sisters would be very clickbaity too, but that story doesn't get amplified by the media.

Again though why would they “amplify” it? What goal does it serve? The killer was already in custody by the time most of us heard what had happened. They reported on it, it was open and shut by then already.

Mr. Karate

Sand wrote: »

It's more than that. A 5 year old being executed in front of his sisters would be very clickbaity too, but that story doesn't get amplified by the media.

If the races were reversed the media would be all over it 24/7 and there would be crowdfunding for the child's family and BLM would be tearing up the streets.

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

That is a very good point I didn't even think about that! Prob says it all really ! You don't hear about that stuff.

Except that you do and we all did.

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

If that's the case gf police killers are in custody what are they rioting for ?

Were Breonna Taylor’s killers put in jail overnight? Is this the first I’m hearing of it?

Tell me how

[QUOTE=Unstoppable20;114521047]The only factual thing about that discussion is you don't have an exact percentage of figure only made up number s . Thus it's a pointless attempt at point scoring.

Anyway I've no intention of being baited into a nonsensical back and forth with you about made up %.[/QUOTE]

NY Times.

Four recent polls — including one released this week by Civis Analytics, a data science firm that works with businesses and Democratic campaigns — suggest that about 15 million to 26 million people in the United States have participated in demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and others in recent weeks.

More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.

I've been willing to allow the number arrested to be out by a factor of 10 and haven't increased the protesters who have protested in the 2 months since the article was written.

So, by all means, let you, or anyone else come up with a figure to indicate that the BLM movement is focused solely on violence and looting and that will be discussed.

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

It's more than that. A 5 year old being executed in front of his sisters would be very clickbaity too, but that story doesn't get amplified by the media.

What outcome would have wanted from the media covering such a story?

A suspect identified?
Them to be arrested?
Them to be charged?

Because all of that happened pretty much immediately.

If you want to talk about disparate media attention, maybe you will consider the following.

What does not become national news as often are the numbers of minority children and adults who go missing. The blame for this is the phenomenon called the "missing white girl syndrome" and many blame local and national media for its lack of coverage.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

So if there's one unsolved crime that a reason to riot?

Are you telling the complete truthful facts about breonna taylors death ?

Why are they pushing this narrative of the police over there being killers when it simply isn't true? How many encounters s with police have went off perfectly with good officers compared to the few that have went wrong or they had to use force.

Do you know something about this case everyone else doesn't know?

How many cases of the unwarranted police killings would it take for you to say some action is needed?

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

So if there's one unsolved crime that a reason to riot?

Are you telling the complete truthful facts about breonna taylors death ?

Why are they pushing this narrative of the police over there being killers when it simply isn't true? How many encounters s with police have went off perfectly with good officers compared to the few that have went wrong or they had to use force.

Who said anything about justifying riot? It is a good a reason as anybody to protest though. If we’re being completely truthful about her death, it’s that there was no excuse for it. Simple as. Police are killers. That’s not a narrative. People are in fact being killed by police, hundreds per year, and they aren’t some rabble rousing group of teenagers with wooden shields they are a government sanctioned and operated, regulated force, funded by taxpayer money. The public has every interest and prerogative to petition the government and the police when they don’t serve the best interests of society.

Overheal

They aren’t made up numbers?