BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

"Police are killers simple as"

It was at that point you lost all credibility.

Okay. Sorry I’ve lost your subscription. Totally not what I said though and you “misquoting” me is totally dishonest.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

I believe one other poster just went to the effort to show you how your own numbers are showing you up think about it.

You aren't doing your own cause any good.

As I said I've no interest in your made up numbers game.

Link please.

And if you think my numbers are made up, please provide evidence which for you validates the whole movement being motivated to commit violent activities.

You came up with 36.8%, where did that come from?

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Link please.

And if you think my numbers are made up, please provide evidence which for you validates the whole movement being motivated to commit violent activities.

You came up with 36.8%, where did that come from?

Post 4847

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

... Simple as. Police are killers...

New adventures in nonsense.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

Post 4847

Hadn't seen that.

Can you provide evidence that the 10,000 arrests were all for looting activities and ignored a further 10,000 arrests or what exactly are you saying in reference to this?

Do you think the BLM movement is inherently violent and focused on looting?
Based on what evidence?

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

I litterally made it up, as you insisted I answer your ridiculous statistic question about how many looters there are.

You know the statistic you don't even have yourself?

I thought the .8 would be a give away but hey!

I still have 0 interest in having a back and forth about made up numbers so if you haven't anything meaningful to discuss , don't @ me thanks.

So, to be clear. You have no evidence that the BLM movement is motivated in violent activities.

Given this, why do you oppose it?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

New adventures in nonsense.

I’ll help you cats out:

Police are killers. That’s not a narrative. People are in fact being killed by police, hundreds per year, and they aren’t some rabble rousing group of teenagers with wooden shields they are a government sanctioned and operated, regulated force, funded by taxpayer money. The public has every interest and prerogative to petition the government and the police when they don’t serve the best interests of society.

Who said anything about justifying riot? It is a good a reason as anybody to protest though. If we’re being completely truthful about her death, it’s that there was no excuse for it. Simple as.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Hadn't seen that.

Can you provide evidence that the 10,000 arrests were all for looting activities and ignored a further 10,000 arrests or what exactly are you saying in reference to this?

Do you think the BLM movement is inherently violent and focused on looting?
Based on what evidence?

We had this discussion a few days ago.

Once violence and looting become a feature of any movement it discredits the movement.

No leaders from BLM have appealed to people to protest peacefully or stop looting, instead we have BLM leaders "declaring war on police" to cite but one example(Hawk Newsome of BLM New York). Until that happens BLM is (by omission of an instruction to desist from violence and looting) endorsing said behaviour and whatever numbers or percentages you wish to present in whatever way you want to present them mean nothing in the face of the continuing violence and looting.

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

Out of 375 mill encounters annually you can point to a handful of deaths , they aren't very good killers are they, considering what they are being made out to be!

What they are being made out to be is a government institution badly in need of reforms, especially in accountability.

Danzy

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Portland will be tense tonight.

Antifa may turn their anger upon law enforcement.

Nothing new there, some random people will get the **** kicked out of them while walking home for no reason, nightly at this stage.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Nothing new there, some random people will get the **** kicked out of them while walking home for no reason, nightly at this stage.

The cops should stop kicking the **** out of random people then

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

Litterally 2 post ago you said the following "police are killers" this implies that all police are killers... And the very next sentence you say it's not a narrative...

The mind boggles honestly!

Even though the number s completely refute your claim you still persist with this made up narrative that police are bloodthirsty killers that set out everyday to kill... When this is in fact a lie.

If you can’t follow what I’m actually saying with intellectual honesty then perhaps it’s best I remain “lost” to you.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

I’ll help you cats out:

Police are killers. That’s not a narrative. People are in fact being killed by police, hundreds per year, and they aren’t some rabble rousing group of teenagers with wooden shields they are a government sanctioned and operated, regulated force, funded by taxpayer money. The public has every interest and prerogative to petition the government and the police when they don’t serve the best interests of society.

Who said anything about justifying riot? It is a good a reason as anybody to protest though. If we’re being completely truthful about her death, it’s that there was no excuse for it. Simple as.

The problem is that the police aren't setting out to kill people, they aren't serial killers out to satiate their blood lust. Saying police are killers (and nothing else it must be noted) is disingenuous.

Sadly the ends are justifying the means with these protests, people are protesting against perceived injustice and social disadvantage by destroying their own neighbourhoods, with added deaths at seemingly every protest.
These protests aren't achieving anything, a new tactic is needed.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

The problem is that the police aren't setting out to kill people, they aren't serial killers out to satiate their blood list. Saying police are killers (and nothing else it must be noted) is disingenuous.

Sadly the ends are justifying the means with these protests, people are protesting against perceived injustice and social disadvantage by destroying their own neighbourhoods, with added deaths at seemingly every protest.
These protests aren't achieving anything, a new tactic is needed.

But I did note: hundreds of police killings per year. Nobody said they were serial/bloodthirsty killers already you’re trying to drag the idea of police reform into reducto ad absurdum

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

But I did note: hundreds of police killings per year. Nobody said they were serial/bloodthirsty killers already you’re trying to drag the idea of police reform into reducto ad absurdum

You stated "police are killers" as if killing is their only remit. You made the statement and then made a ham fisted attempt at qualifying it.

Do you believe police set out to kill people on a daily basis? If not why say "police are killers"?

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

The cops should stop kicking the **** out of random people then

Do you believe that police set out to randomly assault people?

Carfacemandog

gozunda wrote: »

Well good. So the police are clearly not the bigoted anti black nazi types some are making out yes?

Is there dangerous asholes out there? Yes there are. And thats exactly why we need police.

Turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas to be fair.

I would definitely agree that police are necessary, and that the vast majority are good. I would also agree that there are also issues relating to 'bad apples' doing more than their share to spoil the bunch including racist police and racist police gangs, which are recognised as a problem even by federal judges.

On the flip side, there are also issues where police could use the assistance of better trained individuals to certain cases as we saw with the Daniel Prude asphyxiation case recently. This however would require re-allocating some funds currently used for police to professionals from these fields, which some are absolutely dead set against. That American police (and not just SWAT type units) are often trained more similarly to soldiers in a war zone (and armed accordingly) only exacerbates situations like this, and addressing this particular issue would likely go a long way towards improving relations and outcomes of situations.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

But I did note: hundreds of police killings per year. Nobody said they were serial/bloodthirsty killers already you’re trying to drag the idea of police reform into reducto ad absurdum

The number of people who are killed who are unarmed is tiny though.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

The number of people who are killed who are unarmed is tiny though.

Right so job done, feet up, what’s on television?

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

I see exactly what you are doing you are intentionally being misleading.. in the way you lay out what your saying..

For instance I can say dogs are human killers while some dogs may infact have killed a human, and the statement is true ... It's by in large incorrect and very misleading as the majority of dogs don't kill humans. See what I did there?

Similar to what your doing with your police are killers antics .

You are suggesting that it would in fact be ok for there to be some police who kill people without justification, as long as the majority don't do so.

You are simultaneously saying that the entire BLM movement is invalid, because there are some within who commit acts of violence.

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

You are suggesting that it would in fact be ok for there to be some police who kill people without justification, as long as the majority don't do so.

Ah sure it’s only a few. Boys will be boys etc

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Ah sure it’s only a few. Boys will be boys etc

Hang on, you stated that "police are killers" as if killing people is the only thing police do. As always you wriggle around until your insane statements are forgotten and attempt to take the moral high ground.

I've challenged you on this point already which you answered with what can only be described as rhetoric, and another statement you made about police randomly assaulting people that you ignored.

Just ignore the sticky questions and round on points you think you can get one over on people about.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Right so job done, feet up, what’s on television?

Watching "I'm thinking of ending things" on Netflix, 7.9 on IMDB.

Great that the issue is resolved.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

You and your buddy are suggesting that all police are killers ... Twist twist twist no one is buying it tho. The mask has slipped!

Also of you could qoute me saying blm is invalid I'd like to see it.

Just because I don't agree with yer crazy ideology doesn't mean I dislike blm or black people or anything of the sort.

No matter how much you suggest that's the case.

I'm simply pointing out the lies ye are trying to push.

Great. Someone else here prone to rhetoric. Just what we need.

No one is suggesting all police are killers.
We are suggesting that the police system in the US needs reform because there is ample evidence than it is not best serving the needs of the community it is specifically in place to serve.
We are not arguing that it be abolished.
We are not arguing that it be disarmed.
We are arguing that it needs to be reviewed and the resources which it occupies be considered as to whether they are being best utilised.

How is that so complicated to understand?

Overheal

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

You and your buddy are suggesting that all police are killers ... Twist twist twist no one is buying it tho. The mask has slipped!

Also of you could qoute me saying blm is invalid I'd like to see it.

Just because I don't agree with yer crazy ideology doesn't mean I dislike blm or black people or anything of the sort.

No matter how much you suggest that's the case.

I'm simply pointing out the lies ye are trying to push.

No not all police are killers no. And we didn’t say that. If that’s what you got from the posts, as I have clarified a couple times now, then, it’s a deliberate misinterpretation on your end.

ProfessorPlum

Overheal wrote: »

The cops should stop kicking the **** out of random people then

What? So because (in your opinion) the police ‘randomly assault people’, that makes it ok for someone minding their own business to have the sh1t kicked out of them? And at the same time you won’t condemn this violence, only police violence? No wonder I’m feeling confused as a left leaning, Trump critical observer of all this madness.

Tell me how

Unstoppable20 wrote: »

The words " police are killers "suggest all police are killers ya didn't need a big spiel to figure that out it's fairly straightforward

Null wasn't wrong when he said ye just twist and round on points till the water is muddied enough !

That's down to wilful interpretation of it.

You've read the thread. That poster has the most posts in it, they are patently not saying that all police are killers. They are saying that enough are that it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Who said anything about justifying riot? It is a good a reason as anybody to protest though. If we’re being completely truthful about her death, it’s that there was no excuse for it. Simple as. Police are killers. That’s not a narrative. People are in fact being killed by police, hundreds per year, and they aren’t some rabble rousing group of teenagers with wooden shields they are a government sanctioned and operated, regulated force, funded by taxpayer money. The public has every interest and prerogative to petition the government and the police when they don’t serve the best interests of society.

For reference this is what you originally posted re "police are killers".

Calling for police reform? OK, fair enough.

You haven't qualified "police are killers" in this or any subsequent posts and your attempts to have a go at others for not understanding you or misrepresenting you are laughable.

Tell me how

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

What? So because (in your opinion) the police ‘randomly assault people’, that makes it ok for someone minding their own business to have the sh1t kicked out of them? And at the same time you won’t condemn this violence, only police violence? No wonder I’m feeling confused as a left leaning, Trump critical observer of all this madness.

I'm not speaking for that poster, but, consider this.

Unfortunately, there are still parents in Ireland who discipline their children using physical force. It is illegal, but it still happens. But it isn't an active topic of conversation amongst the general public on how to stop it.

Now imagine if news broke that a number of teachers in various schools were continuing with the practice of corporal punishment. That would be all over Joe Duffy, there would be marches calling for action and people would be looking for heads to role from the teachers, the principle, the board of management, right up to the minister for education.

All violence is unacceptable, but it can never be n argument to countenance it being carried out by official organisations, just because members of the public are doing so.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

That's down to wilful interpretation of it.

You've read the thread. That poster has the most posts in it, they are patently not saying that all police are killers. They are saying that enough are that it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

So having the most posts wins the debate?

Not when what you are posting is waffle.
Nobody argued that anyone said "all police are killers", the quote was "police are killers". Police aren't killers, do police kill people in their line of duty? Yes, do they set out do kill people? Of course not.