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BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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    #5372
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    I asked for you to provide evidence of police officials (police chiefs, commissioners etc, people in leadership positions in police departments) calling for violence against BLM protestors. You posted something about some cops blurting out some nonsense over their secure radio channel. This is not what I asked you to provide.

    The officers in question literally in fact radioed Central (ie. officials in leadership position) for advice on how to respond to protest activity. Central advised they run them over and shoot the mother****ers. I don't know what else you want but now you're just gilding up a very special goalpost.


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    #5373
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    The officers in question literally in fact radioed Central (ie. officials) for advice on how to respond to protest activity. Central advise they run them over and shoot the mother****ers. I don't know what else you want but now you're just gilding up a very special goalpost.

    You're not getting away with this Overheal.

    I asked you to prove that police have official policies that are calling for violence against protesters.

    When you radio in to a control room you are talking to a control room operator not the chief of police.

    Here are two links of BLM leaders, one calling for violence the other being patently racist...

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-leader-if-change-doesnt-happen-we-will-burn-down-this-system/

    https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1601702630636/blm-leader-white-people-are-subhuman

    What you provided isn't on the same level as the links above. Are those cops acting irresponsibly saying those things? Yes. Is it a policy that all cops act that way? No.

    And ill add the BLM leader calling for a war on police for good measure...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384065/Black-Lives-Matter-leader-declares-war-police.html

    Glazers Out!



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    #5374
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Did I ever say it was a matter of policy? Pretty sure I never did. Kinda 100% sure of that.

    It is on the same level tbh because both are purportedly broadcasting to followers what to do.


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    #5375
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    Did I ever say it was a matter of policy? Pretty sure I never did. Kinda 100% sure of that.

    It is on the same level tbh because both are purportedly broadcasting to followers what to do.

    I asked you to show me that police leadership are calling for violence, in the same way BLM leadership is. You failed.

    You posted links to cops radioing into a control room where other cops said things they shouldn't have said.

    Do you really believe the chief of police is sitting in the control room announcing police policy in an ad hoc manner over the radio to random officers?

    This isn't even remotely equal to BLM leaders calling for violence.

    Glazers Out!



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    #5376
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    I asked you to show me that police leadership are calling for violence, in the same way BLM leadership is. You failed.

    You posted links to cops radioing into a control room where other cops said things they shouldn't have said.

    Do you really believe the chief of police is sitting in the control room announcing police policy in an ad hoc manner over the radio to random officers?

    No sir with all due respect you in fact did not and have been engaged in shifting the goalpost ever since.


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    #5377
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Quote: nullzero
    This movement has disgraced itself by not only tolerating the violence some have engaged in, but openly encouraging it to escalate.

    Overheal wrote: »
    The exact same can be said for "Law and Order"

    Look back at this for the real context of this discussion please. Talk about moving the goal posts.

    Glazers Out!



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    #5378
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Are police posting on social media calling for an escalation of violence against BLM protestors?

    As for this particular slice of your original question, I think this database will more than cover as an answer for that:

    https://www.plainviewproject.org/
    The Plain View Project is a database of public Facebook posts and comments made by current and former police officers from several jurisdictions across the United States.

    We present these posts and comments because we believe that they could undermine public trust and confidence in our police. In our view, people who are subject to decisions made by law enforcement may fairly question whether these online statements about race, religion, ethnicity and the acceptability of violent policing—among other topics—inform officers’ on-the-job behaviors and choices.

    To be clear, our concern is not whether these posts and comments are protected by the First Amendment. Rather, we believe that because fairness, equal treatment, and integrity are essential to the legitimacy of policing, these posts and comments should be part of a national dialogue about police.


  • Options
    #5379
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    As for this particular slice of your original question, I think this database will more than cover as an answer for that:

    https://www.plainviewproject.org/

    Sorry I asked for evidence of police leadership (police departments, not individual officers) calling for violence against protesters. This is not what I asked for.

    Glazers Out!



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    #5380
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Quote: nullzero
    This movement has disgraced itself by not only tolerating the violence some have engaged in, but openly encouraging it to escalate.




    Look back at this for the real context of this discussion please. Talk about moving the goal posts.

    Again Central NYPD command openly encouraged its officers to run over and shoot mother****ing protesters over an unencrypted channel. Again, I'm not sure what jewel encrusted goalpost you're interested in, but the problem has been demonstrated to you already.


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    #5381
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Sorry I asked for evidence of police leadership (police departments, not individual officers) calling for violence against protesters. This is not what I asked for.

    I'm not interested in your special goalpost and it's disappointing that you see no merit in reviewing the database or the behavior of officers or the culture thats been allowed to propagate, without or without explicit knowledge of Chiefs. Certainly I have not myself cross checked to see how many of these posts are made by officers who work in a leadership role, though I assume it is not a null set.


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    #5382
    TheFactMan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 98 ✭✭TheFactMan


    Overheal wrote: »
    That's but one example I chose to give yes. The left I will leave as an exercise for readers or those already familiar with examples from the thread.

    You realize the ideology and the hate speech people like you spread is the reason that officers are dying ? Like the two that were shot in the head in broad daylight... They we're obviously shot by someone that believes similar to you and blm...that they are "evil" and out to get black people... So much so that they all deserve to die..

    The arguments people like you make that lean towards the officers gunning people down at random have real world ramifications. Especially when enough people start saying it.. that narrative is the reason officers are being murdered.

    You should check yourself and balance your arguements... Low key hate speech is still hate speech even if it's allowed on here.


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    #5383
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Overheal wrote: »
    Again, you've disparaged the movement based on the actions of a few.

    The irony of you trying to 'cancel me' by labeling me a 'liar' for calling you out on what you've been saying :rolleyes:




    You have now lied twice about me




    and now yet another lie.


    show me where I condemned peaceful protests


    show me where this "disparenging the movement based on the actions of a few " has happened.


  • Options
    #5384
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    Again Central NYPD command openly encouraged its officers to run over and shoot mother****ing protesters over an unencrypted channel. Again, I'm not sure what jewel encrusted goalpost you're interested in, but the problem has been demonstrated to you already.

    It isn't evidence of the police department itself calling for these actions to be carried out as part of their policy.

    Was what happened in this instance right? Of course not, but it isn't relevant to this discussion.

    I haven't moved any goalposts, you just don't want to answer the question I asked you properly.

    At this point you have failed to do so repeatedly and have accused me of moving the goalposts on more than one occasion. I have asked you to provide evidence one thing only. How that is moving thr goalposts I have no idea.

    Glazers Out!



  • Options
    #5385
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    TheFactMan wrote: »
    You realize the ideology and the hate speech people like you spread is the reason that officers are dying ? Like the two that were shot in the head in broad daylight... They we're obviously shot by someone that believes similar to you and blm...that they are "evil" and out to get black people... So much so that they all deserve to die..

    The arguments people like you make that lean towards the officers gunning people down at random have real world ramifications. Especially when enough people start saying it.. that narrative is the reason officers are being murdered.

    That's, wow.

    What ideology am I spreading? What hate speech have I espoused? Please, quote it, I insist.


  • Options
    #5386
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Overheal wrote: »
    As for this particular slice of your original question, I think this database will more than cover as an answer for that:

    https://www.plainviewproject.org/

    is this site organised stalking of police officers ?


  • Options
    #5387
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    I'm not interested in your special goalpost and it's disappointing that you see no merit in reviewing the database or the behavior of officers or the culture thats been allowed to propagate, without or without explicit knowledge of Chiefs. Certainly I have not myself cross checked to see how many of these posts are made by officers who work in a leadership role, though I assume it is not a null set.

    Is it official policy announced by police departments?

    Simple question. Yes or no Overheal?

    Glazers Out!



  • Options
    #5388
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    It isn't evidence of the police department itself calling for these actions to be carried out as part of their policy.

    Was what happened in this instance right? Of course not, but it isn't relevant to this discussion.

    I haven't moved any goalposts, you just don't want to answer the question I asked you properly.

    At this point you have failed to do so repeatedly and have accused me of moving the goalposts on more than on occasion. I have asked you to provide evidence one thing only. How that is moving thr goalposts I have no idea.

    Again you seem clearly disinterested in evidence that violates the idea that police propagate and support violence against protests, which I have provided. I've answered your question several times yet you persist to plead for special goalposts. I've nothing further to add for you, as doing so proves to have been a waste of my time.


  • Options
    #5389
    TheFactMan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 98 ✭✭TheFactMan


    Overheal wrote: »
    That's, wow.

    What ideology am I spreading? What hate speech have I espoused? Please, quote it, I insist.

    As I said you are implying that officers are out murdering black people for no reason. I don't have to qoute you be spent a whole thread at it... I don't have to prove you wrong... Altho I'm sure if I go back a few pages I'd find something... But that's not the point you know we'll what you are doing no matter how coy you try to be about it.

    The opinion you and people like you that have a similar opinion spread has real world ramifications..


  • Options
    #5390
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Originally Posted by BattleCorp
    I'm not saying all police killings are lawful and justified. I'm saying that most of them are.

    What about the hispanic guy in the video a few pages ago who was charging at the cops with a kitchen knife. Was his killing justified?
    Originally Posted by BattleCorp
    Overheal, any chance you could anwer this question please? You seem to have skipped over it when you quoted the rest of the post.

    Overheal, for the third time, any chance of answering the question in bold above?

    Overheal, fourth time of asking. One would almost think that you don't want to answer the question.


  • Options
    #5391
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    is this site organised stalking of police officers ?

    From what I can see no there is no stalking of police officers, doxing, etc. just concerned citizens reporting on social media posts that those charged with the public trust deem fit to espouse in the public domain.


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    #5392
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    Again you seem clearly interested in confirmation bias that 'police aren't bad apples' so I'll leave you to it at this point. I've answered your question several times yet you persist to plead for special goalposts. I've nothing further to add for you, as doing so proves to have been a waste of my time.

    Police are not bad apples? I stated that the police officers you posted links to were in fact bad apples.
    Cops don't talk to top ranking police officials over the radio, and what these morons said to each other is not proof of official police policy of violence towards BLM protestors.

    You have not provided one link supporting the idea that police have made violence against protesters part of their official policy. Do you know why? Because they haven't done so.

    No goal posts have been moved by anyone other than you.

    If you're concerned about wasting your time why claim something is going on when it isn't?

    You accused me of moving the goalposts but didn't post one single link to an example of official police policy calling for violence against anyone.

    Glazers Out!



  • Options
    #5393
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    TheFactMan wrote: »
    As I said you are implying that officers are out murdering black people for no reason. I don't have to qoute you be spent a whole thread at it... I don't have to prove you wrong... Altho I'm sure if I go back a few pages I'd find something... But that's not the point you know we'll what you are doing no matter how coy you try to be about it.

    The opinion you and people like you that have a similar opinion spread has real world ramifications..

    This is, yet another, case of you injecting words in my mouth/a strawman argument, regarding things I have never said. I have categorically never argued that cops are "out murdering black people for no reason." And the fact that you can't supply quotes that effect only underscores that point.


  • Options
    #5394
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    You have now lied twice about me




    and now yet another lie.


    show me where I condemned peaceful protests


    show me where this "disparenging the movement based on the actions of a few " has happened.

    Then not you, specifically. Apologies, I see you only have 8 posts in this thread.


  • Options
    #5395
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    nullzero wrote: »
    I asked for you to provide evidence of police officials (police chiefs, commissioners etc, people in leadership positions in police departments) calling for violence against BLM protestors. You posted something about some cops blurting out some nonsense over their secure radio channel. This is not what I asked you to provide.




    Seems since he is a mod he can make as many false accusations as he likes.
    Lie blatantly on here, which he has done twice already concerning me.



    If that were you or I we would be banned for it.
    For even mentioning this I might get a ban, that is how one sided things are.


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    #5396
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Police are not bad apples? I stated that the police officers you posted links to were in fact bad apples.
    Cops don't talk to top ranking police officials over the radio, and what these morons said to each other is not proof of official police policy of violence towards BLM protestors.

    You have not provided one link supporting the idea that police have made violence against protesters part of their official policy. Do you know why? Because they haven't done so.

    No goal posts have been moved by anyone other than you.

    If you're concerned about wasting your time why claim something is going on when it isn't?

    You accused me of moving the goalposts but didn't post one single link to an example of official police policy calling for violence against anyone.

    Still bejeweling that special goalpost. You keep enhancing your criteria for satisfactory evidence with each post. Not entertaining that sorry.


  • Options
    #5397
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    Seems since he is a mod he can make as many false accusations as he likes.
    Lie blatantly on here, which he has done twice already concerning me.



    If that were you or I we would be banned for it.
    For even mentioning this I might get a ban, that is how one sided things are.

    Nobody gets banned for 'being a liar.'

    Claiming as much makes you a liar ;)


  • Options
    #5398
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Overheal wrote: »
    From what I can see no there is no stalking of police officers, doxing, etc. just concerned citizens reporting on social media posts that those charged with the public trust deem fit to espouse in the public domain.

    its a hate site


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    #5399
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Overheal wrote: »
    Still bejeweling that special goalpost. You keep enhancing your criteria for satisfactory evidence with each post. Not entertaining that sorry.

    I provided links to BLM leaders calling for violence. You stated that police are doing the same thing. You provided no evidence. I haven't enhanced my criteria for satisfactory evidence, you have just repeatedly failed to provide any.

    Get over yourself with this "bejeweling that special goalpost" crap. You haven't been able to support your original statement, boo hoo for you pal.

    Glazers Out!



  • Options
    #5400
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    its a hate site

    lol

    that's a pretty weak attempt to discredit primary evidence.


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    #5401
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    What about the hispanic guy in the video a few pages ago who was charging at the cops with a kitchen knife. Was his killing justified?

    Overheal, fifth time of asking. Wanna have a go at answering the question above?


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