BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Junkyard Tom

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

UThe brainwashed masses are being fed a diet of propaganda by the mainstream media in an effort to get them to believe a leftist narrative about black people and how they are being oppressed and hunted.

You're such a lost cause that you think the mainstream media is 'leftist'. You're deeply invested in this whole culture war thing, you just eat that stuff by the shovelful.

Here's a short clip between Rubin and Larry Elder discussing the impact Larry guesting on his show the first time had on young people.

A shit-spreading fraud interviewing a libertarian? What the hell would anyone learn from that but how to be even more stupid?

There is no left in America to speak of. I presume you're Irish living in Ireland? If so I would suggest getting away from the YouTube reactionary circuit, it can't be good for your well-being.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Tom there seems to think the same..

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

Edit. I'm going to bow out of the thread now and let ye get back to it, I've broken one of my own sanity-retention rules by becoming involved at all.

The Floyd p

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There is no left in America to speak of.

If the mainstream media in USA was as left leaning as most critics say it is, I don't think the last two Democratic candidates for the presidency would have more in common with Trump than an actual left wing candidate.

Outlaw Pete

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Really? He doesn't have an 'anti-leftist' agenda and he has the likes of that utter scumbag Stefan Molyneaux on?

He has liberals on also and yes he is anti-leftist now for sure but that has been something that has evolved and if you would actually listen to some of his shows you would see that he often fought with guests early on and given he was proven wrong by so many guests over the years he had no choice really but to become anti-leftist as it was the logical path given he was presented with facts on the issues which showed that he was wrong to hold certain opinions which he had done. That however does not therefore mean he "projects" a anti-left agenda onto discussions as that would suggest he puts words in his guests mouths and doesn't let them say what they wish which is just not true.

Look at the stream of oddball reactionaries he has on.

He has had one or two on, Don Lemon etc, but in the main he has had highly intelligent guests on. Stephen Fry, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson Eric Weinstein etc. You sound to me to be someone who only listens to people who express views that align with the opinions you hold. The very thing you seem to condemn others for doing.

Also, I wouldn't grace these guys by calling them 'anti-left', a better description is 'anti reality' which is why they appeal to 'conservatives' who are a few steps away from Q-anon who are a bunch of lunatics.

How would they be "anti reality" when they back up what they are saying all the time? You seem to have this bizarre notion that these people you are sneering at just express nonsense opinions and people just accept their opinions without considering if what they have said is true or not.

If the left were correct then Jussie Smollet wouldn't have had to put a noose around his neck and pour bleach on himself. He did so though because there is such an appetite in the hive mind of the left for systemic racism in America to be real but it's not. The narratives pushed by the left are almost always false. That's where the 'anti-reality' is.

Sand

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

These guys here, the anti-BLM crowd, they're all into Rubin, Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Carl Benjamin, the Irish guy - Dave something, and so on.

I disavow all those people. They're part of the problem.

CarProblem

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So you're saying Black people are more likely to be involved in crime.

Why is that do you think?

I was responding to a nonsense post of yours, you move the goalposts but lets engage regardless........

Despite the narrative Police in America shoot circa 1 person per 10000 arrests. I think it's c 7 in 1 million arrests lead to an unarmed person being shot dead. Note the use of the word arrest, not interaction. The number of unarmed shootings of any race is rare, despite being told black people are being shot down in their droves by a racist police force the stats don't back this up

- when you correct for crime rates there is no evidence of a racial bias in police shootings
- unarmed suspects (of any race) being shot dead is incredibly rare
- again when one looks at the % of both black and white suspects shot dead that turn out to be unarmed there is no difference in the %
- in fact a lot of reports suggest the figures (per 1000 arrests - so correcting for crime rates) for whites are actually higher but I'd question if the difference is statistically significant (so lets just assume no difference)

When I first heard of BLM first thing I did was research stats on shootings. Unfortunately most people just got out the pitchfork and followed the trendy movement on social media without question #OnlyTrendyHashtagsMatter

It takes a special kind of dope to go looking for racism in America (there is a lot of it by the way) and manage to hitch ones wagon to a movement using an area with no racial bias as its vanguard

Why do black people commit more crimes? Typically, throughout time and in all countries propensity to commit crime is related to factors such as

- socio economic factors
- rates of unemployment, deprivation etc
- rates of early school leaving etc

If you corrected for these factors I'd be very surprised to see a disparity by race - i.e. I do not believe black people have some "racial commitment" to crime.

- Do I think black people in America are discriminated against? Yes
- Do I think black people in America have numerous things to be aggrieved about? Yes
- Do I think black people in America should be protesting? Yes
- Do I think black people in America should be protesting about police shootings? No - unless it is a cross community effort arguing that police kill too many people regardless of race

People need to cop on with this identity politics nonsense. Fuck me - so many people latch onto trendy social media hashtags and stick to them no matter what. Doubling down when shown to be wrong because the narrative is still trendy

The irony is politicians love this crap. To solve the real issues would be hard (possibly impossible in our life times) and anything initiated today would take time (possibly generations) to bear fruit. Instead they can announce they're doing something, however all it will be is quick fixes to appease the mob that will achieve nothing and in 30 years time we'll all still be on this thread arguing over why nothing has changed

CarProblem

Outlaw Pete posted this in another thread that was subsequently ignored by about 99% of posters (I can't post the URL link as I'm a relatively new user)

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. On Friday, Barack Obama tweeted that for millions of black Americans, being treated differently by the criminal justice system on account of race is “tragically, painfully, maddeningly ‘normal.’ ” Mr. Obama called on the police and the public to create a “new normal,” in which bigotry no longer “infects our institutions and our hearts.”

Joe Biden released a video the same day in which he asserted that all African-Americans fear for their safety from “bad police” and black children must be instructed to tolerate police abuse just so they can “make it home.” That echoed a claim Mr. Obama made after the ambush murder of five Dallas officers in July 2016. During their memorial service, the president said African-American parents were right to fear that their children may be killed by police officers whenever they go outside.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz denounced the “stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism” on law enforcement during a Friday press conference. He claimed blacks were right to dismiss promises of police reform as empty verbiage.

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.

The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

biko

Dolezal. Krug. Vitolo-haddad.

It's not a coincidence that every high-profile case of a busted fake person of color has been a white woman who teaches critical race theory in academe. https://t.co/FLRHXCc8ML

nj27

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why do you think Black people are more likely to be involved in crime?

It's a complex matter, much more complex than slapping a one size fits all explanation of "systemic racism" on it and then figuring out things from there.

Since cities are burning and businesses are being destroyed because racist white cops apparently can't stop shooting black people, a good starting point is the 2017 study by Lott and Moody, which used one of the most comprehensive lists of police shootings ever compiled, found that white officers are not more likely to kill unarmed black suspects than black officers.

A 2018 study by Cesario et al found no systemic evidence of anti-black disparities in fatal shootings when data was adjusted by crime rate, a variable which obviously impacts your likelihood of interacting with or being shot by the police.

Other studies by Johnson et al (2019) and Goff et al (2016) had similar findings.

It could be argued that the number of black children growing up with a father is a bigger problem than the phantom injustices of racist murdering cops. Data reported by the United States census bureau shows that in excess of 57% of black children in America grow up without a father present, compared to 31% of Hispanic children, and 20% of white children. A compilation of the statistically measurable consequences of fatherless homes, which include poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, as well as physical and emotional health problems is not fun read. According to census bureau, the percentage of fatherless homes among the black population of the USA has also been steadily increasing since the 1960s, when it was closer to 20%. Black crime rates have also risen steadily since the 60s.

Other studies outside sociological questions focus on the testosterone levels and the presence of the 2-repeat allele of the monoamine oxidase A gene. Beaver et al (2013) found that African-American males who carry the 2-repeat allele are significantly more likely than all other genotypes to engage in shooting and stabbing behaviors and to report having multiple shooting and stabbing victims.

A 2014 meta-analysis found that blacks males have up to 5% more free testosterone (bio-available, unbound to other proteins) than white males. Higher levels of free testosterone has been linked to aggressive behaviour.

Like I said, it is a complex matter, but the current solution of blaming whitey and racism is not only nonsense, but dangerous and counterproductive nonsense.

AbusesToilets

CarProblem wrote: »

Outlaw Pete posted this in another thread that was subsequently ignored by about 99% of posters (I can't post the URL link as I'm a relatively new user)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmgxtcbc4iU

Sam Harris did a pretty solid episode along similar lines.

Sudden Valley

nj27 wrote: »

It's a complex matter, much more complex than slapping a one size fits all explanation of "systemic racism" on it and then figuring out things from there.

Since cities are burning and businesses are being destroyed because racist white cops apparently can't stop shooting black people, a good starting point is the 2017 study by Lott and Moody, which used one of the most comprehensive lists of police shootings ever compiled, found that white officers are not more likely to kill unarmed black suspects than black officers.

A 2018 study by Cesario et al found no systemic evidence of anti-black disparities in fatal shootings when data was adjusted by crime rate, a variable which obviously impacts your likelihood of interacting with or being shot by the police.

Other studies by Johnson et al (2019) and Goff et al (2016) had similar findings.

It could be argued that the number of black children growing up with a father is a bigger problem than the phantom injustices of racist murdering cops. Data reported by the United States census bureau shows that in excess of 57% of black children in America grow up without a father present, compared to 31% of Hispanic children, and 20% of white children. A compilation of the statistically measurable consequences of fatherless homes, which include poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, as well as physical and emotional health problems is not fun read. According to census bureau, the percentage of fatherless homes among the black population of the USA has also been steadily increasing since the 1960s, when it was closer to 20%. Black crime rates have also risen steadily since the 60s.

Other studies outside sociological questions focus on the testosterone levels and the presence of the 2-repeat allele of the monoamine oxidase A gene. Beaver et al (2013) found that African-American males who carry the 2-repeat allele are significantly more likely than all other genotypes to engage in shooting and stabbing behaviors and to report having multiple shooting and stabbing victims.

A 2014 meta-analysis found that blacks males have up to 5% more free testosterone (bio-available, unbound to other proteins) than white males. Higher levels of free testosterone has been linked to aggressive behaviour.

Like I said, it is a complex matter, but the current solution of blaming whitey and racism is not only nonsense, but dangerous and counterproductive nonsense.

Is the lack of fathers present in Black communities linked to the war on drugs? My vague understanding is that in the 80's the sentencing for crack dealers resulted in a large number of young black males being incarcerated for decades. Also non-blacks tended to deal in cocaine at that time which was subject to less stringent punishment.

Junkyard Tom

CarProblem wrote: »

- when you correct for crime rates there is no evidence of a racial bias in police shootings

For a start, BLM isn't just about shootings. 'Correct for crimes rates' is manipulative use of statistics as it deliberately ignores why someone might be involved in crime in the first place, it ignores who is more likely to be policed and, worse still, it ignores the nature/severity of the crime.

Also BLM isn't just about police shootings, George Floyd wasn't shot and neither was the guy being apprehended for the heinous crime of selling loose cigarettes.

CarProblem

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

For a start, BLM isn't just about shootings

As I said it's the vanguard IMO, I can only speak for me but when I see/hear it reported police shootings/killings is what's referenced mostly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'Correct for crimes rates' is manipulative use of statistics

No it isn't - if I commit more crimes than you I'm more likely to be arrested, shot etc. If you don't make that correction any comparison is meaningless. I'd strongly suggest you look up how a generalised linear model works

Just cos you don't like it doesn't make it manipulative

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

it deliberately ignores why someone might be involved in crime in the first place, it ignores who is more likely to be policed and, worse still, it ignores the nature/severity of the crime.

And I addressed that point - as I said I believe the black population of America is hard done by and if we equalise for other factors (deprivation etc) there'd probably be no racial indicator when assessing propensity to commit crime (or would that be manipulative also )

Tell me how

Interesting committee appearance from FBI Director. Second video.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1306616447771308036

TheFactMan

Tell me how wrote: »

Interesting committee appearance from FBI Director. Second video.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1306616447771308036

I guess people can hear what they want to hear... He didn't say that at all , the twitter qoute and the context of the video don't match what he was implying at all.. very misleading agenda driven snippets and qoutes... I'd expect nothing less from Twitter tho tbh.

I actually watched an interesting thing on netflix about this misleading carry on called "social dilemma" well worth a watch and really shows the damage fake news and misleading videos like this can do, pretty incredible and dangerous stuff social media is these days!

gozunda

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

For a start, BLM isn't just about shootings. 'Correct for crimes rates' is manipulative use of statistics as it deliberately ignores why someone might be involved in crime in the first place, it ignores who is more likely to be policed and, worse still, it ignores the nature/severity of the crime.

Also BLM isn't just about police shootings, George Floyd wasn't shot and neither was the guy being apprehended for the heinous crime of selling loose cigarettes.

Don't think the poster said that it was. But yes police shootings were one of the core issues which set the first Blm protests in motion in 2013

The posters comment also called out that there are a myriad of issues which need to be dealt with - behind the statistics

CarProblem wrote:

To solve the real issues would be hard (possibly impossible in our life times) and anything initiated today would take time (possibly generations) to bear fruit.

Tbh arguing from the particular to the general doesn't do the posters comment justice at all.

Tell me how

TheFactMan wrote: »

I guess people can hear what they want to hear... He didn't say that at all , the twitter qoute and the context of the video don't match what he was implying at all.. very misleading agenda driven snippets and qoutes... I'd expect nothing less from Twitter tho tbh.

I actually watched an interesting thing on netflix about this misleading carry on called "social dilemma" well worth a watch and really shows the damage fake news and misleading videos like this can do, pretty incredible and dangerous stuff social media is these days!

Lol. Thankfully there is a video and everyone can watch him speak, hear what he is saying and draw their own conclusions.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

Interesting committee appearance from FBI Director. Second video.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1306616447771308036

well looks like that statistic will most likley change from this year on in for sure ...

TheFactMan

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

For a start, BLM isn't just about shootings. 'Correct for crimes rates' is manipulative use of statistics as it deliberately ignores why someone might be involved in crime in the first place, it ignores who is more likely to be policed and, worse still, it ignores the nature/severity of the crime.

Also BLM isn't just about police shootings, George Floyd wasn't shot and neither was the guy being apprehended for the heinous crime of selling loose cigarettes.

What was racial about GF death exactly?

TheFactMan

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol. Thankfully there is a video and everyone can watch him speak, hear what he is saying and draw their own conclusions.

Exactly they can, the words he speaks and the point he is conveying to a loaded question doesn't match the twitter qoute , why be intentionally misleading ? Also what has if got to do with the current topic ?

Tell me how

TheFactMan wrote: »

What was racial about GF death exactly?

It was another event in a long line of disparate treatment towards people of colour by the police resulting in their death.

You think because they weren't wearing hoods and shouting the N word that it can't then have been influenced by systemic negative views towards one sector of society?

But shur like, BLM hasn't been declared a terrorist organisation yet, so they won't be arrested under that jurisdiction..

TheFactMan

Tell me how wrote: »

It was another event in a long line of disparate treatment towards people of colour by the police resulting in their death.

You think because they weren't wearing hoods and shouting the N word that it can't then have been influenced by systemic negative views towards one sector of society?

Is that a long winded way of saying there was nothing racially motivated about GF death?

Because there's a video and there wasn't anything racially motivated about it.

CarProblem

gozunda wrote: »

The posters comment also called out that there are a myriad of issues which need to be dealt - behind the statistics

Tbh arguing from the particular to the general doesn't do the posters comment justice at all.

He missed out this entire section

Why do black people commit more crimes? Typically, throughout time and in all countries propensity to commit crime is related to factors such as

- socio economic factors
- rates of unemployment, deprivation etc
- rates of early school leaving etc

If you corrected for these factors I'd be very surprised to see a disparity by race - i.e. I do not believe black people have some "racial commitment" to crime.

- Do I think black people in America are discriminated against? Yes
- Do I think black people in America have numerous things to be aggrieved about? Yes
- Do I think black people in America should be protesting? Yes
- Do I think black people in America should be protesting about police shootings? No - unless it is a cross community effort arguing that police kill too many people regardless of race

People need to cop on with this identity politics nonsense. **** me - so many people latch onto trendy social media hashtags and stick to them no matter what. Doubling down when shown to be wrong because the narrative is still trendy

The irony is politicians love this crap. To solve the real issues would be hard (possibly impossible in our life times) and anything initiated today would take time (possibly generations) to bear fruit. Instead they can announce they're doing something, however all it will be is quick fixes to appease the mob that will achieve nothing and in 30 years time we'll all still be on this thread arguing over why nothing has changed

But that bit doesn't really go with his agenda that criticism of BLM can only come from nasty racists

I'll re-empasise this bit

People need to cop on with this identity politics nonsense. **** me - so many people latch onto trendy social media hashtags and stick to them no matter what. Doubling down when shown to be wrong because the narrative is still trendy

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

But shur like, BLM hasn't been declared a terrorist organisation yet, so they won't be arrested under that jurisdiction..

And if that hasn't happened in the current climate, with the current occupier of the WH, then it says a lot doesn't it.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

And if that hasn't happened in the current climate, with the current occupier of the WH, then it says a lot doesn't it.

In the current climate of them terrorizing the country you mean?

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

In the current climate of them terrorizing the country you mean?

Except they aren't doing that. In any sort of demonstrative way. As you know.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Except they aren't doing that. In any sort of demonstrative way. As you know.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

He kinda looks like Donald. Which is kinda apt given he is trying to get people to march to the beat of his drum but looks jaded and weak in doing so.

Very apt meme in the current climate. Well done.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

Interesting committee appearance from FBI Director. Second video.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1306616447771308036

The FBI has been trying to push that meme about white supremacist terrorism & white male mass shootings for years now. The methodology is highly suspect and is essentially a conclusion searching for evidence. For example, its my understanding they include any killing by a white prison gang member as being white supremacist terrorism when it's really a drug deal gone wrong or some other criminal act.