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BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    What is wrong with you and your ilk?
    I was raised right and have a healthy respect for law enforcement and those who put their lives on the line day in and day out to preserve law and order.


    That seems lacking, both in the screeching lefties in the US and increasingly here. I foresee a swing to the right pretty quickly in retort. It has already happened in some places (Trump, AFD, Booris, french nationalism etc)

    Who are my Ilk?

    She was an EMT recruit you really think she or her boyfriend, who committed no crimes, had no record, were just itching to blast at police? You’re out of your mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Overheal wrote: »
    Who are my Ilk?

    She was an EMT recruit you really think she or her boyfriend, who committed no crimes, had no record, were just itching to blast at police? You’re out of your mind.
    Your ilk, crazy anti policing ("defund the police") anarchists from the left.
    No respect for the badge, for the law of the land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You only have the occupant's word on that.
    I would and will not retract that statement. Anyone (or any group) who fire at the law enforcement are the lowest of the low and deserve what's coming to them.
    You only have the occupant's word on that.

    The point is that whether the cops announced their presence is contested. The cops were not obliged to announce their arrival, if they did and were fired upon you have a point but if they didn't and the occupants were frightened you don't have a point - hopefully the dispute will be cleared up but either way an INNOCENTa filled with 8 bullets and she didn't fire on anyone.
    I would and will not retract that statement.

    That says a lot about you as a human being - once again an INNOCENT woman was murdered in her home by cops.
    Anyone (or any group) who fire at the law enforcement are the lowest of the low and deserve what's coming to them.

    How many times do you have to be told Ms Taylor did not fire at anyone.

    My apologies for the bold/capitals but due to your disingenious posts it's necessary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,674 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    ELM327 wrote: »
    What is wrong with you and your ilk?
    I was raised right and have a healthy respect for law enforcement and those who put their lives on the line day in and day out to preserve law and order.


    That seems lacking, both in the screeching lefties in the US and increasingly here. I foresee a swing to the right pretty quickly in retort. It has already happened in some places (Trump, AFD, Booris, french nationalism etc)

    And worldwide, people can see Trump and Boris for what they are.

    We had an attempt at that in Ireland with Peter Casey but thankfully the electorate showed just what the interest is in asking people with loud voices but no merit to lead the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    MFPM wrote: »
    The point is that whether the cops announced their presence is contested. The cops were not obliged to announce their arrival, if they did and were fired upon you have a point but if they didn't and the occupants were frightened you don't have a point - hopefully the dispute will be cleared up but either way an INNOCENTa filled with 8 bullets and she didn't fire on anyone.



    That says a lot about you as a human being - once again an INNOCENT woman was murdered in her home by cops.



    How many times do you have to be told Ms Taylor did not fire at anyone.

    My apologies for the bold/capitals but due to your disingenious posts it's necessary.
    Ms Taylor did not, but the household did.
    I never once said she did it herself.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Your ilk, crazy anti policing ("defund the police") anarchists from the left.
    No respect for the badge, for the law of the land.

    Uhm, what badges? They were wearing any.

    It’s not anarchy to call for police reform. It’s not anarchy to suggest “maybe the LAPD doesn’t need a billion dollar budget if it’s going to spend it on militarization.” That’s what the military is for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    What is wrong with you and your ilk?
    I was raised right and have a healthy respect for law enforcement and those who put their lives on the line day in and day out to preserve law and order.


    That seems lacking, both in the screeching lefties in the US and increasingly here. I foresee a swing to the right pretty quickly in retort. It has already happened in some places (Trump, AFD, Booris, french nationalism etc)
    I was raised right and have a healthy respect for law enforcement

    Delighted for you. I was raised to ask questions, to apply critical thinking to all things in society, I also use my own experience of life to not slavishly and blindly hold un critical 'respect' for any institution.
    those who put their lives on the line day in and day out to preserve law and order.

    That's lazy propaganda.
    I foresee a swing to the right pretty quickly in retort.

    The opposite is happening FFS....open your eyes...the biggest movement since the civil rights movement in the 1960s is underway in the States...Trump is going to lose to a non entity like Biden such is the mood for change, Bolsanaro has exposed himself as being useless and let's not even got there with the bozo in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Ms Taylor did not, but the household did.
    I never once said she did it herself.

    Just that she got what she deserved.

    You’re unreal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Overheal wrote: »
    Uhm, what badges? They were wearing any.

    It’s not anarchy to call for police reform. It’s not anarchy to suggest “maybe the LAPD doesn’t need a billion dollar budget if it’s going to spend it on militarization.” That’s what the military is for.
    What badge? The badge that goes with the job.
    A cop is always a cop, even when off duty. It's the same here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    What badge? The badge that goes with the job.
    A cop is always a cop, even when off duty. It's the same here.

    Lmao

    So even off duty a cop can bash into someone’s home unannounced and expect immunity from the homeowner?

    What are you smoking can I have some?

    Awfully strange hill to die on lad. They wore no badges. No uniforms. No body cameras. Didn’t announce themselves and battering rammed the door off the hinge before a single bullet - one and only one - was fired by the homeowner.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Ms Taylor did not, but the household did.
    I never once said she did it herself.

    No? From your post #618...
    As far as I'm concerned she got what's coming to her. You dont shoot at law enforcement (or steal a tazer) and expect to get away with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    MFPM wrote: »
    Have you a point to make or just posting random videos?
    It ties in well with BLM as he copies George Floyd.
    From watching the video, is he really in peril do you think?
    Or is he using the phrase to faze the Guards?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    MFPM wrote: »
    No? From your post #618...
    Please point to where I said she did it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,674 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    biko wrote: »
    It ties in well with BLM as he copies George Floyd.
    From watching the video, is he really in peril do you think?
    Or is he using the phrase to faze the Guards?

    How can you say it ties in with BLM and that he is copying George Floyd.
    The whole BLM movement at this time is because George Floyd had no input in to how he behaved or was treated.

    Your suggestion implies you think George Floyd was acting unnecessarily or exaggerating similar to the lad in the video.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,674 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Please point to where I said she did it?

    You said that she got what was coming to her because a shot was fired at the police.

    If you want to create and fight a strawman that you are being accused of saying she fired the shot, then you go ahead and do that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    How can you say it ties in with BLM and that he is copying George Floyd.
    The whole BLM movement at this time is because George Floyd had no input in to how he behaved or was treated.

    Your suggestion implies you think George Floyd was acting unnecessarily or exaggerating similar to the lad in the video.
    I hope that is not how it comes across.
    My point is this teenager is actually making light of what happened to Floyd by saying the same phrase, implying the Garda are killing him, when it's pretty clear he is no danger at all.
    To me, he is joking about a serious incident that sparked a movement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    biko wrote: »
    It ties in well with BLM as he copies George Floyd.
    From watching the video, is he really in peril do you think?
    Or is he using the phrase to faze the Guards?
    It ties in well with BLM as he copies George Floyd.

    Or perhaps he couldn't breathe, he had a man perhaps twice his weight and size putting a fair degree of weight on him and the female guard wasn't exactly standing by. The guy may as you suggest be acting the maggot, I don't know but neither do you.
    From watching the video, is he really in peril do you think?

    He's on the floor with two hefty guards pinning him down and hand cuffing him, I'm sure it's not pleasant.

    Here's another video, from yesterday, you might have missed it - notice the cop's knee! Oh, this guy was completely innocent - mistaken identity by the boys and girls in blue, it's inner city Dublin sure there all gangsters there!!

    https://twitter.com/PaulFMcKeon/status/1280259706825641984


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,674 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    biko wrote: »
    I hope that is not how it comes across.
    My point is this teenager is actually making light of what happened to Floyd by saying the same phrase, implying the Garda are killing him, when it's pretty clear he is no danger at all.
    To me, he is joking about a serious incident that sparked a movement.

    Agree. And was a similar incident in Galway some weeks ago. Crying wolf is both undermining where action is needed, and is making it more likely that you will not be listened to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Please point to where I said she did it?

    As far as I'm concerned she got what's coming to her. You dont shoot at law enforcement (or steal a tazer) and expect to get away with it.

    Stop being so disingenuous, you know exactly what you were doing with that statement. You've allowed a bias cloud your judgement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Please point to where I said she did it?

    The part where you said she shot at them and stole a tazer. All utter fantasy.

    If this is not correct perhaps you could be so good as to clarify the point you were making.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Overheal wrote: »
    And the word of all the neighbors who were eyewitnesses. Jesus what is wrong with you.

    Neighbours were sitting up listening out for any shouting, were they?? What a load of bollix.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Neighbours were sitting up listening out for any shouting, were they?? What a load of bollix.

    They were wide awake when they heard their building being slammed into with a battering ram, yes.

    Apartment is presumably wood construction, like the vast majority up to code, and this wasn't a very fancy establishment either. They would have felt that up and down the hall much less the floor above and below.

    It wasn't that late either, 12:40 AM roughly, silly to suggest someone couldn't possibly have been awake to hear all that. It was a Friday night wasnt it.

    Bottom line, nobody testified they heard the police announce themselves, and the police report was a farce. The police also have no recording of what they did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    Regarding the Paul McKeon video above of the Garda arresting the guy. Im not sure what the issue is here? The suspect looked to be struggling a little, so they subdued him. When he stopped resisting it seems like the Gardai got off him and gave him space.
    I have no idea of the context of this video to be honest. Prior to the video was the suspect resisting arrest or exhibiting threatening behaviour?

    Or did the Gardai in fact wrestle a fully cooperative,non resisting suspect to the ground with zero provocation? If that is the case then yes that's an extremely OTT reaction by the Gardai.

    However if that is not the case why is the Gardai behaviour above problematic?
    Apologies if the context has been fully explained elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,357 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    And besides, all other facts being the same, let's just for the sake of this sentiment assume they did not, in fact, announce themselves as the law. Do people here still think 'she got what she deserved,' given that?? I can't fathom how. Nevermind the fact I don't see how an EMT and her boyfriend would have chosen to open fire at duly identified police, having committed no crimes - that just doesn't strike me as likely in the least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Mod

    ELM327 & Overheal - stop sniping at each other. In fact, take a 24 hour break from this thread. When you get back temper your discusssions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    MFPM wrote: »
    Or perhaps he couldn't breathe, he had a man perhaps twice his weight and size putting a fair degree of weight on him and the female guard wasn't exactly standing by. The guy may as you suggest be acting the maggot, I don't know but neither do you.



    He's on the floor with two hefty guards pinning him down and hand cuffing him, I'm sure it's not pleasant.

    Here's another video, from yesterday, you might have missed it - notice the cop's knee! Oh, this guy was completely innocent - mistaken identity by the boys and girls in blue, it's inner city Dublin sure there all gangsters there!!

    https://twitter.com/PaulFMcKeon/status/1280259706825641984
    Erm, firstly the video clearly starts well into the arrest. Secondly, even at the start of the video the suspect is squirming while the second Garda attempts to put on handcuffs. Thirdly, police officers applying physical force they way they are doing during an arrest where the suspect is resisting is SOP. They haven't done anything wrong in the video.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    Overheal wrote: »
    They were wide awake when they heard their building being slammed into with a battering ram, yes.

    Apartment is presumably wood construction, like the vast majority up to code, and this wasn't a very fancy establishment either. They would have felt that up and down the hall much less the floor above and below.

    It wasn't that late either, 12:40 AM roughly, silly to suggest someone couldn't possibly have been awake to hear all that. It was a Friday night wasnt it.

    Bottom line, nobody testified they heard the police announce themselves, and the police report was a farce. The police also have no recording of what they did.
    One really important thing to note here too. The US does have a "stand your ground" protection. The fact the police did not announce themselves when breaking in gave Taylor's partner every right to fire at the door. If the police had announced themselves it would have been different. They did not. There is no way he could have known they were police.

    By the way, no knock warrants still require police officers to identify themselves before they begin knocking down a door. They literally can do it the moment before the ramming bar hits the door but they have to announce themselves. They did not. Therefore the shot was perfectly legal under the stand your ground law and its the reason he was not charged with a. Attempted murder or b. Assaulting an officer with a lethal weapon.

    EDIT: In most states the no knock warrant required identification before breach. It is still protected under "stand your ground" law


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Neighbours were sitting up listening out for any shouting, were they?? What a load of bollix.

    Or they were awoken by the shouting and noise! Try engage your critical functional if you have any.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    Erm, firstly the video clearly starts well into the arrest. Secondly, even at the start of the video the suspect is squirming while the second Garda attempts to put on handcuffs. Thirdly, police officers applying physical force they way they are doing during an arrest where the suspect is resisting is SOP. They haven't done anything wrong in the video.

    And your point is?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭MFPM


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    One really important thing to note here too. The US does have a "stand your ground" protection. The fact the police did not announce themselves when breaking in gave Taylor's partner every right to fire at the door. If the police had announced themselves it would have been different. They did not. There is no way he could have known they were police.

    By the way, no knock warrants still require police officers to identify themselves before they begin knocking down a door. They literally can do it the moment before the ramming bar hits the door but they have to announce themselves. They did not. Therefore the shot was perfectly legal under the stand your ground law and its the reason he was not charged with a. Attempted murder or b. Assaulting an officer with a lethal weapon.

    EDIT: In most states the no knock warrant required identification before breach. It is still protected under "stand your ground" law
    By the way, no knock warrants still require police officers to identify themselves before they begin knocking down a door. They literally can do it the moment before the ramming bar hits the door but they have to announce themselves.

    I don't think you're correct here, I'm not an expert by any means but my understanding is that cops can identify themselves but they don't have to.


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