BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

biko

As part of the statue destructions over in US there were a recent attempt to destroy the Andrew Jackson statue in Lafayette Square near the White House.

The leader for the attempt, Jason Charter, was arrested today by the FBI and U.S. Park Police.
Charter was also allegedly involved in the destruction of the Albert Pike Historical Statue in DC in June.

Police add that Charter has connections to Antifa.

J_M_G

Overheal wrote: »

I will respond to your question when you apologize. Then we can resume being mutually civil.

An apology for saying I think you have a delusional narrative? Are you serious?

Obviously, I don't think that warrants an apology in any way, but if you insist:

I, J_M_G, sincerely apologize to Overheal for publicly saying I think he has a delusional narrative. It wasn't my intention to hurt his feelings. It is now my solemn desire to resume being mutually civil.

Ok, so now can you please respond to my question and provide us all with evidence of Trump "glorifying violence". Remember, glorifying self-defence obviously doesn't count, as I am sure you will agree.

J_M_G

J_M_G wrote: »

An apology for saying I think you have a delusional narrative? Are you serious?

Obviously, I don't think that warrants an apology in any way, but if you insist:

I, J_M_G, sincerely apologize to Overheal for publicly saying I think he has a delusional narrative. It wasn't my intention to hurt his feelings. It is now my solemn desire to resume being mutually civil.

Ok, so now can you please respond to my question and provide us all with evidence of Trump "glorifying violence". Remember, glorifying self-defence obviously doesn't count, as I am sure you will agree.

That's a beautiful apology.

Can you engage now Overheal?

J_M_G

J_M_G wrote: »

An apology for saying I think you have a delusional narrative? Are you serious?

Obviously, I don't think that warrants an apology in any way, but if you insist:

I, J_M_G, sincerely apologize to Overheal for publicly saying I think he has a delusional narrative. It wasn't my intention to hurt his feelings. It is now my solemn desire to resume being mutually civil.

Ok, so now can you please respond to my question and provide us all with evidence of Trump "glorifying violence". Remember, glorifying self-defence obviously doesn't count, as I am sure you will agree.

Erm, you claimed a person had enough fentanyl in their system to kill a horse. I'm pretty confident that you can't prove what you've claimed.

He also had 11 nanograms of fentanyl in his blood. That number, in and of itself, doesn’t tell us much. Immediately after a person dies, the blood concentration of fentanyl increases significantly, so knowing only the post-mortem amount does not tell us about Mr. Floyd’s level of intoxication before his death.

What’s more, the same amount of fentanyl that produces euphoria in a tolerant user can result in an overdose in a newer user. That’s why, along with the toxicology report, we have to look at Mr. Floyd’s behavior shortly before his death.

Videos show Mr. Floyd behaving rationally and appropriately, considering the circumstances. When officers asked him to get out of his car, he did not seem drowsy or lethargic, which is how people high on opioids behave.


https://nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/george-floyd-toxicology-report-drugs.html

Danzy

biko wrote: »

As part of the statue destructions over in US there were a recent attempt to destroy the Andrew Jackson statue in Lafayette Square near the White House.

The leader for the attempt, Jason Charter, was arrested today by the FBI and U.S. Park Police.
Charter was also allegedly involved in the destruction of the Albert Pike Historical Statue in DC in June.

Police add that Charter has connections to Antifa.

Jason Charter, typical radical left activist, in the BLM and Antifa movements.

Private University Education, IT consultant, millionaire parents and lives in an well to do town in Long Island.

Being left, especially radical left today is a class signifier.

No cement or engine oil under the fingernails of activists today.

The left has changed massively in 20 years.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm, you claimed a person had enough fentanyl in their system to kill a horse. I'm pretty confident that you can't prove what you've claimed.

Unless he injects fentanyl into a horse, he probably can't conclusively prove it.

I wouldn't recommend he does that to satiate a well known agitator.

It is a discussion forum though and most normal people would assume he was asserting that St George Floyd was high on drugs and not within his right mind when he acted in such a way which contributed to the circumstances which ended up with his death and subsequent beatification.

But of course, boards posters, if straying from your own beliefs, must have iron clad and forensically proven evidence to enter discussion.

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm, you claimed a person had enough fentanyl in their system to kill a horse. I'm pretty confident that you can't prove what you've claimed.

Don't think it was just the fentanyl tbh. The guy had a fairly potent cocktail of drugs in his system

1. Fentanyl 11ng/mL
2 . Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3 . 4 - ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4 . Methamphetamine19 ng/mL
5 . 11- Hydroxy Delta- 9 THC 1.2 ng mL;
Delta- 9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/ mL; Delta- 9 THC 2.9 ng/ mL

This fentanyl concentration, including its norfentanyl metabolite at its molecular weight, was 20.6 ng/mL That is over three times the lethal overdose, (from reports where the highest dose survived was 4.6 ng/ml)

The term "kill a horse" is a colloquism btw

J_M_G

"Enough to kill a horse" is a figure of speech. It's hyperbole. Normal people recognize that and don't miss the point, which is that Georgie boy was off his face on drugs. The toxicology reports showed he was high on fentanyl and meth (and coronavirus!).

But fine, I'll retract my claim that he had enough fentanyl in him to kill a horse because I don't know what the fatal dose is to kill a horse. I am deeply deeply sorry for my outrageous LIE.

But I am still eagerly awaiting Overheal's proof of Trump glorifying violence.


EDIT: Colloquialism! That's the word I was looking for. Thank you gozunda.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unless he injects fentanyl into a horse, he probably can't conclusively prove it.

I wouldn't recommend he does that to satiate a well known agitator.

It is a discussion forum though and most normal people would assume he was asserting that St George Floyd was high on drugs and not within his right mind when he acted in such a way which contributed to the circumstances which ended up with his death and subsequent beatification.

But of course, boards posters, if straying from your own beliefs, must have iron clad and forensically proven evidence to enter discussion.

We’ve already established his fentanyl concentration was within the exact same lev l of a control group in a study of those who had fentanyl in their system when they died. That control group died not as a result of their fentanyl use. That’s the problem with the claim, it’s completely bunk, even as a metaphor. The data does not support fentanyl concentration being high enough to kill a human, much less a horse.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

We’ve already established his fentanyl concentration was within the exact same lev l of a control group in a study of those who had fentanyl in their system when they died. That control group died not as a result of their fentanyl use. That’s the problem with the claim, it’s completely bunk, even as a metaphor. The data does not support fentanyl concentration being high enough to kill a human, much less a horse.

Which is what the previous 4,or 5 posts said. We don't actually know or care if it would kill a horse, but it's enough to make you act erratically.

He had enough fentanyl in him to kill a badger. Is that ok? Or should I get a vets report?

If I said someone was as quiet as a mouse would you have the ****ing digital sound level out to measure decibels?

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

We’ve already established his fentanyl concentration was within the exact same lev l of a control group in a study of those who had fentanyl in their system when they died. That control group died not as a result of their fentanyl use. That’s the problem with the claim, it’s completely bunk, even as a metaphor. The data does not support fentanyl concentration being high enough to kill a human, much less a horse.

Don't know what data you're reading but the findings are there

Fentanyl and its analogs have been substituted for heroin and other opioids, and are usually marketed to persons seeking opioids. Because of fentanyl’s high potency compared with heroin, methadone, and oxycodone, there is a high risk for fatal overdose associated with illicit use. 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6604a4.htm

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which is what the previous 4,or 5 posts said. We don't actually know or care if it would kill a horse, but it's enough to make you act erratically.

He had enough fentanyl in him to kill a badger. Is that ok? Or should I get a vets report?

If I said someone was as quiet as a mouse would you have the ****ing digital sound level out to measure decibels?

Act erratically? How? Because I asked for proof?

Overheal

gozunda wrote: »

Don't know what data you're reading but the findings are there



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6604a4.htm

Yes you do. Because you’ve been a regular on this thread and know the exact study I was referring to.

J_M_G

Overheal, are you going to provide proof to support your claim that Trump glorifies violence or not?

You said that you would, but we're all still waiting.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

Yes you do. Because you’ve been a regular on this thread and know the exact study I was referring to.

Do I? Tbf - I've grown fairly tired of the type of discussion which involves endless hair splitting and etc. If you are referring to the New York times politicised article above by one neuroscientist on the subject of fentanyl and George Floyd - you'll excuse me if I place more weight on the validity of multidisciplinary research on Fentanyl and mortality published by the the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention...

Overheal

gozunda wrote: »

Do I? Tbf - I've grown fairly tired of the type of discussion which involves endless hair splitting of infinitives and etc. As to the New York times politicised article above by one neuroscientist on the subject of fentanyl and George Floyd - you'll excuse me if I place more weight on the validity of multidisciplinary research on Fentanyl and mortality published by the the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention...

I'm referring to multidiscplinary research.

Maybe you missed it, idk how thorough your read is and it doesn't look like you posted around the time these were posted but this is what I was referring to:

Overheal wrote: »

2012 study:

Introduction
Transdermal fentanyl, an opioid used for management of marked pain, also is abused and may cause death.

Methods
We reviewed medical examiner reports of 92 decedents who had one or more fentanyl transdermal patches on their body and had fentanyl detected in their postmortem toxicology analysis.

Results
The manners of death included 40 accidents, 36 natural, 8 suicides, 5 therapeutic complications, and 3 undetermined deaths. Among the accidental fentanyl intoxication deaths, 32 of 37 involved substance abuse. The majority (95 %) of the 37 accidental deaths involving fentanyl were multi-drug intoxications. The substance abuse deaths had a mean fentanyl blood concentration (26.4 ng/ml or μg/L) that was over twice that of the natural group (11.8 ng/ml). Our analysis suggests a relationship between total patch dosage and mean postmortem fentanyl concentration up to the 100-μg/h dose.

Conclusions
The very wide and overlapping ranges of postmortem fentanyl concentrations effectively nullify the utility of correlating the dose and expected postmortem concentration for any particular death. Based on the variable relationship between dose and blood concentration, the antemortem dose cannot be reliably predicted based on the postmortem concentration. This does not, however, render the medical examiner/coroner unable to determine the cause and manner of death because the toxicology results are only one datum point among several that are considered. Although there was a weakly positive relationship between body mass index and fentanyl concentration, further research is needed to determine whether adipose tissue represents a significant depot for postmortem release of fentanyl.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576505/

Overheal wrote: »

What we learn from the study is that they reviewed 92 dead people who:

1. had one or more fentanyl transdermal patches on their body
2. had fentanyl detected in their postmortem toxicology analysis

We know from it, that the manner of death of the subjects was:

• 40/92 accidental
  • 37/40 were accidental deaths involving multi-drug intoxication
    • 32/37 involved substance abuse had a mean fentanyl blood concentration of 24 mg/mL
• 36/92 natural causes - this group had a mean fentanyl blood concentration of 11.8 ng/mL
• 8/92 suicides
• 5/92 therapeutic complications (this would probably include palliative care)
• 3/92 undetermined

And we know from George Floyd's postmortem toxicology report that he had a fentanyl blood concentration of 11 ng/mL

Ergo, I find it incredibly hard to believe that fentanyl is the supermajority factor in his death, vs the knee to his neck for 7 mins and 46 seconds.

Overheal

J_M_G wrote: »

Overheal, are you going to provide proof to support your claim that Trump glorifies violence or not?

You said that you would, but we're all still waiting.

PM sent. Forthcoming I plan to make a moderately detailed post on that - imho I think it should be common knowledge but for continuity of thread I'll put something together. Sorry for the delay.

J_M_G

Overheal wrote: »

PM sent. Forthcoming I plan to make a moderately detailed post on that - imho I think it should be common knowledge but for continuity of thread I'll put something together. Sorry for the delay.

Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Cheers.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

I'm referring to multidiscplinary research.

Maybe you missed it, idk how thorough your read is and it doesn't look like you posted around the time these were posted but this is what I was referring to:

Ok. However nothing in that study goes to your own conclusion that:

Overheal wrote:

The data does not support fentanyl concentration being high enough to kill a human, much less a horse.

It remains that GF had a cocktail of drugs in his system including fentanyl. This goes to the finding in your report that the majority (95 %) of the 37 accidental deaths involving fentanyl were multi-drug intoxications.

Even acknowledging the difficulties of accurately determining post mortem drug concentrations - it's important to understand that Floyds PM fentanyl concentration, including its norfentanyl metabolite at its molecular weight, was 20.6 ng/mL - close to the substance abuse deaths in your report which had a mean fentanyl blood concentration (26.4 ng/ml or μg/L)

What we can say had he not died when he did - it appears from the post mortem results that he had close to or greater than overdose levels of drugs in his system. Do all people who have these concentrations in their system die? No they don't. Some do, some thankfully receive emergency care which prevents immediate death and some go on to suffer life limiting effects of such drug use including brain and multi organ damage.

Danzy

Georgie boys Methamphetamine levels weren't at toxic levels but they were very high.

For a man with Chronic heart disease, one artery at 90% blockage, others at 75% blockage.

Even without the diverse and often dangerously high levels of narcotics in his system, the act of resisting arrest was high risk.

It all caught up with him, a life of extreme violence and thuggery had destroyed his body.

J_M_G

Danzy wrote: »

Georgie boys Methamphetamine levels weren't at toxic levels but they were very high.

For a man with Chronic heart disease, one artery at 90% blockage, others at 75% blockage.

Even without the diverse and often dangerously high levels of narcotics in his system, the act of resisting arrest was high risk.

It all caught up with him, a life of extreme violence and thuggery had destroyed his body.

Don't forget the coronavirus as a nice little cherry on top.

Danzy

J_M_G wrote: »

Don't forget the coronavirus as a nice little cherry on top.

So he had Covid, chronic heart disease and was full of illegal drugs.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

So he had Covid, chronic heart disease and was full of illegal drugs.

And was kneecapped in the neck for nearly 8 full minutes.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

And was kneecapped in the neck for nearly 8 full minutes.

The knee was near his neck, not on it.

In line with training.

Regardless of the right or wrong of that current legal restraint technique.

It wasn't what killed him, his body gave out and he died from cardio pulmonary arrest.

1800_Ladladlad

The media go out of their way to display outrage when right-wing Militias march. It's odd to hear ITV report on the NFAC (Not ****ing Around Coalition) state they have a black nationalist agenda and their marches prove that militia does not have to be white & right-wing. You never hear of this black supremacist group reported in the media in the same way Proud boys have.

https://twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1312820940531666944

Grand Master Jay, the leader of the black separatist militia leader is allowed to have a YouTube channel and spout this kind of nonsense, but of course, Gavin McInnis and the Proud Boys have all been banned from the platform? This is the guy demanding who is demanding an ethnostate when there's an entire continent that is racially homogeneous he could easily go to too. The lads a headcase and is looking a fight.

https://twitter.com/FirstThemNEWS/status/1312456689845592064

https://twitter.com/progunz_1/status/1312837063826341890

The NFAC can't even hold a march without shooting themselves. They negligently discharge their weapons at every rally they have, like the one who did it yesterday, the person was a felon, and shouldn't have even had one. Could you picture the media if these were even just white patriotic people? The double standards. See the discharges here too Here Here


Its a sh*t show

Quantum Erasure

Overheal wrote: »

We’ve already established his fentanyl concentration was within the exact same lev l of a control group in a study of those who had fentanyl in their system when they died. That control group died not as a result of their fentanyl use. That’s the problem with the claim, it’s completely bunk, even as a metaphor. The data does not support fentanyl concentration being high enough to kill a human, much less a horse.

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Don't know about that...

The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml. Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.

https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/fentanyl_en

what else did he have in his system?

...

silverharp

BLM need better heroes, they jump on these cases like they are huge gotchas when they are pulling the wool over people's eyes.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Act erratically? How? Because I asked for proof?

You saw the video. He was acting extremely erratic. He was on drugs. Or is it your opinion that drugs had no part in his behaviour?

Sand

silverharp wrote: »

BLM need better heroes, they jump on these cases like they are huge gotchas when they are pulling the wool over people's eyes.

In some ways, the fact that they can make dangerous criminals into modern day saints allows them to show their strength. The worse the person, the better symbol they are. The other component of demonstrating this power is the demonising white people for extremely minor issues, such as a white kid smiling uncomfortably while being harangued or a white woman confronted in a park by a man calling the police. Right and wrong aren't important any more. Just power.

AbusesToilets

Sand wrote: »

In some ways, the fact that they can make dangerous criminals into modern day saints allows them to show their strength. The worse the person, the better symbol they are. The other component of demonstrating this power is the demonising white people for extremely minor issues, such as a white kid smiling uncomfortably while being harangued or a white woman confronted in a park by a man calling the police. Right and wrong aren't important any more. Just power.

It r ally gives the lie to their redefinition of racism as power and privilege. What group enjoys greater clout in social consciousness than black people, at least in the US context?