BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

weldoninhio

MFPM wrote: »

Or they were awoken by the shouting and noise! Try engage your critical functional if you have any.

I live on the main road into my estate. My bedroom is at the front. Most weekends you'll hear roaring and shouting as people get out of taxis etc. You'll just hear general noise rather than exactly what they are saying unless you actually concentrate on listening in. The neighbors account is bs, unless they were sitting up listening for noise.

superflyninja

MFPM wrote: »

And your point is?

You linked the video saying:

MFPM wrote: »

Here's another video, from yesterday, you might have missed it - notice the cop's knee! Oh, this guy was completely innocent - mistaken identity by the boys and girls in blue, it's inner city Dublin sure there all gangsters there!!

Your comment implies the Gards are running around the inner city tarring everybody with the same gangster brush and applying undue and unnecessary force. Id like to remind you of my post:

superflyninja wrote: »

Regarding the Paul McKeon video above of the Garda arresting the guy. Im not sure what the issue is here? The suspect looked to be struggling a little, so they subdued him. When he stopped resisting it seems like the Gardai got off him and gave him space.
I have no idea of the context of this video to be honest. Prior to the video was the suspect resisting arrest or exhibiting threatening behaviour?

Or did the Gardai in fact wrestle a fully cooperative,non resisting suspect to the ground with zero provocation? If that is the case then yes that's an extremely OTT reaction by the Gardai.

However if that is not the case why is the Gardai behaviour above problematic?
Apologies if the context has been fully explained elsewhere.

In my opinion you have linked a video that is utterly frivolous to the discussion. Or are you aware of surrounding circumstances that make this video controversial?
It shows Gardai carrying out their duties in a proper manner as far as I can see. I would ask what your point was in linking it?

MFPM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I live on the main road into my estate. My bedroom is at the front. Most weekends you'll hear roaring and shouting as people get out of taxis etc. You'll just hear general noise rather than exactly what they are saying unless you actually concentrate on listening in. The neighbors account is bs, unless they were sitting up listening for noise.

So a couple of drunk lads getting outof a taxi at number 5 is the same as a gang of cops at your front door?

The neighbors account is bs,

But you haven't a shred of evidence to make that statement, you've taken a position to support the cops version of events and clearly nothing is going to sway you.

MFPM

superflyninja wrote: »

You linked the video saying:

Your comment implies the Gards are running around the inner city tarring everybody with the same gangster brush and applying undue and unnecessary force. Id like to remind you of my post:


In my opinion you have linked a video that is utterly frivolous to the discussion. Or are you aware of surrounding circumstances that make this video controversial?
It shows Gardai carrying out their duties in a proper manner as far as I can see. I would ask what your point was in linking it?

Your comment implies the Gards are running around the inner city tarring everybody with the same gangster brush and applying undue and unnecessary force.

It doesn't but clearly in this case the cops got it badly wrong, rugby tackled the guy to the ground, used unnesceesay force on him and then they had to let him go as they got it wrong.

In my opinion you have linked a video that is utterly frivolous to the discussion.

It's not...look at the footage and look at the cops and specifically their knee...

Or are you aware of surrounding circumstances that make this video controversial?

The video is controversial because the guy was innocent and the method of arrest.

It shows Gardai carrying out their duties in a proper manner as far as I can see.

It doesn't, you're seeing what you want to see.

Tell me how

weldoninhio wrote: »

I live on the main road into my estate. My bedroom is at the front. Most weekends you'll hear roaring and shouting as people get out of taxis etc. You'll just hear general noise rather than exactly what they are saying unless you actually concentrate on listening in. The neighbors account is bs, unless they were sitting up listening for noise.

I expect you live in a house with at the very least a block outer leaf if not solid block construction. I suspect you also have double glazed windows which are closed in at least 350 nights of the year due to the Irish climate.

Most houses in the US and indeed apartment complexes are timber frame with wooden outer leafs. There is insulation but it isn't near as sound proof as with block/concrete.

Irrespective of the construction of the building, it is much more common in the US southern states to have windows open than it would be in Ireland. I don't know the exact circumstances of the night of the incident, but comparing your experience in Ireland is most likely an unrealistic comparison.

weldoninhio

MFPM wrote: »

So a couple of drunk lads getting outof a taxi at number 5 is the same as a gang of cops at your front door?



But you haven't a shred of evidence to make that statement, you've taken a position to support the cops version of events and clearly nothing is going to sway you.

Yes, it's outside noise. Unless you tune yourself into it, you just hear noise.

Do you think the cops stood outside roaring and shouting for a few minutes so the neighbors could tune in before barging the door?? Or do you think the screamed Police as the battered the door down and noise, the door being broke and gunfire all started within seconds.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

I expect you live in a house with at the very least a block outer leaf if not solid block construction. I suspect you also have double glazed windows which are closed in at least 350 nights of the year due to the Irish climate.

Most houses in the US and indeed apartment complexes are timber frame with wooden outer leafs. There is insulation but it isn't near as sound proof as with block/concrete.

Irrespective of the construction of the building, it is much more common in the US southern states to have windows open than it would be in Ireland. I don't know the exact circumstances of the night of the incident, but comparing your experience in Ireland is most likely an unrealistic comparison.

My bedroom window is wide open every night, unless it's torrentially raining.

MFPM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes, it's outside noise. Unless you tune yourself into it, you just hear noise.

Do you think the cops stood outside roaring and shouting for a few minutes so the neighbors could tune in before barging the door?? Or do you think the screamed Police as the battered the door down and noise, the door being broke and gunfire all started within seconds.

Yes, it's outside noise. Unless you tune yourself into it, you just hear noise.

So the noise at no. 5 is the same as the noise at your front door (remember they lived in an apartment).

Do you think the cops stood outside roaring and shouting for a few minutes so the neighbors could tune in before barging the door?? Or do you think the screamed Police as the battered the door down and noise, the door being broke and gunfire all started within seconds.

They clearly made some noise didn't they or water you suggesting that Ms Taylors partner was sitting up at 2am with his gun pointing at the door in case someone popped along?

As I said,you're allowing a bias cloud your ability to apply some critical thinking.

Overheal

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes, it's outside noise. Unless you tune yourself into it, you just hear noise.

Do you think the cops stood outside roaring and shouting for a few minutes so the neighbors could tune in before barging the door?? Or do you think the screamed Police as the battered the door down and noise, the door being broke and gunfire all started within seconds.

So you think Taylor and her boyfriend knew they were cops and decided to open fire anyway? That seems bewilderingly unlikely. She was an EMT in training. 911 audio from the 13th of March indicates her boyfriend did not know they were cops. Neighbor testimony indicates they didn’t hear any such announcement either. The idea that they shouted “we are the police nose goes!” Right when they busted in the door is not just ridiculous but even if true accomplishes literally nothing, as it clearly doesn’t communicate to occupants that they are being raided by police.

But whatever you’re galvanized and will remain convinced they announced themselves. That’s up for debate either way. Supposing they did not in fact announce themselves though do you think that Taylor’s boyfriend was justified in the use of castle doctrine for unidentified invaders? Or are police shielded no matter what, even if they go to great lengths not to identify themselves?

For what it’s worth officers claim they did announce and did so for several minutes. So that doesn’t align with your supposition of how it might have gone down. It doesn’t mesh with testimony from the neighbors either, or with Taylor’s boyfriends account, or with his 911 call. It seems to be a case of them covering their own asses, and not an admission of the truth. Refer to the nearly blank police report they filed after they dumped rounds into that apartment, and rounds that crossfired into neighboring apartments, breaking windows, doors, and flying past the head of a pregnant woman.

Slowyourrole

Overheal wrote: »

So you think Taylor and her boyfriend knew they were cops and decided to open fire anyway? That seems bewilderingly unlikely. She was an EMT in training. 911 audio from the 13th of March indicates her boyfriend did not know they were cops. Neighbor testimony indicates they didn’t hear any such announcement either. The idea that they shouted “we are the police nose goes!” Right when they busted in the door is not just ridiculous but even if true accomplishes literally nothing, as it clearly doesn’t communicate to occupants that they are being raided by police.

But whatever you’re galvanized and will remain convinced they announced themselves. That’s up for debate either way. Supposing they did not in fact announce themselves though do you think that Taylor’s boyfriend was justified in the use of castle doctrine for unidentified invaders? Or are police shielded no matter what, even if they go to great lengths not to identify themselves?

For what it’s worth officers claim they did announce and did so for several minutes. So that doesn’t align with your supposition of how it might have gone down. It doesn’t mesh with testimony from the neighbors either, or with Taylor’s boyfriends account, or with his 911 call. It seems to be a case of them covering their own asses, and not an admission of the truth. Refer to the nearly blank police report they filed after they dumped rounds into that apartment, and rounds that crossfired into neighboring apartments, breaking windows, doors, and flying past the head of a pregnant woman.

As has been seen in these kinds of threads, the anti anti racists will go with whatever version of a story which defends the obvious racists. There's nothing about that police operation that was properly executed. If it had been a white EMT shot in a botched raid this wouldn't even be debated.

drunkmonkey

Player number 3 has entered the race...

Blue and Black Lives Matter protesters clash at Brooklyn rally

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/blue-and-black-lives-matter-protesters-clash-in-nyc/

Slowyourrole

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Player number 3 has entered the race...

Blue and Black Lives Matter protesters clash at Brooklyn rally

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/blue-and-black-lives-matter-protesters-clash-in-nyc/

I can't imagine any decent cop wanting that crowd to be their supporters. BLM just being used the same way as the WLM and ALM, to put down black people looking for equality.

Mr. Karate

Slowyourrole wrote: »

I can't imagine any decent cop wanting that crowd to be their supporters. BLM just being used the same way as the WLM and ALM, to put down black people looking for equality.

BLM was never about equality.

mrkiscool2

Mr. Karate wrote: »

BLM was never about equality.

Can you back up that claim with any actual evidence?

_Kaiser_

Mr. Karate wrote: »

BLM was never about equality.

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't particularly care about America's long-standing, generational, social issues, nor the band-wagoning that seems to be going on in other countries (including here) in the last month or so. We have more than enough social and economic issues of our own without importing America's divisive and confrontational identity politics.

Equality - absolutely, but this isn't about equality as you say.. this is about preferential treatment and immunity from criticism for minorities/the "right" to attack the majority.

Also, a lot of other "causes" (eg: direct provision) is now being given a BLM wrapper to demand that w(hit)e(y!) change to suit the agenda - in that case free housing and (even more) subsidies, but completely ignoring that no-one is forcing these people to live in DP if they're not happy with the conditions.

Sick of the lot of it TBH. The more I see of this stuff being "imposed" on others, the less I care generally, but more than that.. the less sympathy or support I'd have too!

mrkiscool2

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with any actual evidence?

Well, consider what happened when Chop was set up. Immediately thereafter, Black people segregated themselves creating spaces where only Black people could enter. That hardly screams of equality, does it?

The same with police brutality and murders where the white people killed are dismissed as being of lesser importance. The racism towards Black people is more important, more brutal, more... well, everything. Hardly suggests an approach to equality?

The belief that Black people can't be racist, and that white people can never be victims of racism.. hardly a poster child for equality by suggesting such a thing. Instead, it's one situation for POC but an entirely different situation for white people. God forbid we look at an individuals situation rather than constantly referring back to generalisations about race.

I could go on but it doesn't matter because excuses/reasons will be found. If equality was the goal, then excuses wouldn't be needed to explain away the differences.....

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, consider what happened when Chop was set up. Immediately thereafter, Black people segregated themselves creating spaces where only Black people could enter. That hardly screams of equality, does it?

The same with police brutality and murders where the white people killed are dismissed as being of lesser importance. The racism towards Black people is more important, more brutal, more... well, everything. Hardly suggests an approach to equality?

The belief that Black people can't be racist, and that white people can never be victims of racism.. hardly a poster child for equality by suggesting such a thing. Instead, it's one situation for POC but an entirely different situation for white people. God forbid we look at an individuals situation rather than constantly referring back to generalisations about race.

I could go on but it doesn't matter because excuses/reasons will be found. If equality was the goal, then excuses wouldn't be needed to explain away the differences.....

Can you provide evidence that this is in any way a commonly held belief or message?

It screams 'strawman'.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you provide evidence that this is in any way a commonly held belief or message?

It screams 'strawman'.

Edit: Forget it. I can't really be bothered arguing about the whole thing anymore. People want to have double standards. It's just the way things are now.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

They were common opinions made on Youtube videos by protesters, and inhabitants of CHOP over the whole period.

/shrugs. You really think these aren't common expressions? seriously?

So give us a link then. And again, make sure it supports how this is a commonly held view or else accept that given, for example, Stephen Millers presence in the White House it is sufficient to identify the entire administration as being racist.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Edit: Forget it. I can't really be bothered arguing about the whole thing anymore. People want to have double standards' It's just the way things are now..

Either support your argument, or don't. But if it's the latter, expect to be called out on it.

You remind me of those clowns outside Leinster House yesterday.

Sand

Tell me how wrote: »

Either support your argument, or don't. But if it's the latter, expect to be called out on it.

You remind me of those clowns outside Leinster House yesterday.

Google a phrase like 'Can white people be the victims of racism' and you'll find page after page of links to articles and reports claiming that its impossible for white people to experience racism because non-whites do not hold institutional power over white people (which is entirely wrong). Pretending this is not a commonly held view is disingenuous.

Slowyourrole

Mr. Karate wrote: »

BLM was never about equality.

That certainly seems to be the opinion of a number of people who already have it, and more.

Tell me how

Sand wrote: »

Google a phrase like 'Can white people be the victims of racism' and you'll find page after page of links to articles and reports claiming that its impossible for white people to experience racism because non-whites do not hold institutional power over white people (which is entirely wrong). Pretending this is not a commonly held view is disingenuous.

A few outliers is not a commonly held view.

superflyninja

MFPM wrote: »

It doesn't but clearly in this case the cops got it badly wrong, rugby tackled the guy to the ground, used unnesceesay force on him and then they had to let him go as they got it wrong.



It's not...look at the footage and look at the cops and specifically their knee...



The video is controversial because the guy was innocent and the method of arrest.



It doesn't, you're seeing what you want to see.

Ok first here is a quote directly from yourself:

MFPM wrote: »

Here's another video, from yesterday, you might have missed it - notice the cop's knee! Oh, this guy was completely innocent - mistaken identity by the boys and girls in blue, it's inner city Dublin sure there all gangsters there!!

So yes your post did say that the Gardai are tarring everyone in the inner city with the same brush. Thats literally what it reads as.

Again I don't know how you can argue that the video on its own is controversial. You say the suspect was innocent, that it was a case of mistaken identity.
What were the crimes the actual suspect was accused of? Were they violent crimes? Did the actual suspect have a history that made it advisable to approach in this manner?
I don't know, do you?

The video shows the guy already on the ground squirming. It doesn't show any rugby tackle or the initial approach by the Gardai.
And you say Im seeing what I want to see?
Im seeing what is in the video mate.

Im not on either side by the way but this tendency to link a video like this and pretend its some sort of evidence of police brutality is a joke. And to throw in the line about inner city discrimination as well as a substitute for race. Sure arent all gardai brutal racists?
Can you substantiate your claims of an inappropriate apprehension method being applied?

Again, I don't know the context of the video, maybe this is all explained somewhere and MFPM is correct, but just show me proof. That video shows nothing and presenting it as proof of something is totally disingenuous IMO.

Chris_Heilong

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with any actual evidence?

It is a long thread that has lots of articles saying as such posted, maybe go through it.

superflyninja

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is a long thread that has lots of articles saying as such posted, maybe go through it.

Where is the long thread? Not having a go, genuine question.

mrkiscool2

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is a long thread that has lots of articles saying as such posted, maybe go through it.

Really? Can you point out specific incidents or is this just another way of begging the question?

Chris_Heilong

superflyninja wrote: »

Where is the long thread? Not having a go, genuine question.

You must be new to the internet, have a look at the page number you are on, go to the first page and read through all of them, enjoy.

superflyninja

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

You must be new to the internet, have a look at the page number you are on, go to the first page and read through all of them, enjoy.

I think its you that is missing something here.
The Gardai video I'm talking about was first linked on page 44 of this thread and as far as I'm aware there were no mentions of it previously.

All the questions I ask are still valid. Not one person has supplied a shred of proof that this video is controversial in any way.
Not one.

You might ask why should I request proof be provided?
The OP linked a video that began toward the end of whatever incident took place. They then suggested that the Gardai were acting with unnecessary force and that the case of mistaken identity was down to the Gardai equating all inner-city people to gangsters. No context provided.
Why ask people to just accept this at face value?
The video "proof" doesn't backup anything the OP put forward. The OP clearly is convinced this video shows Gardai malpractice. Which is why Im asking them for that information. The fact they have have not provided any leads me to think there is no evidence.

Im asking for the links to the information to be posted here because then the full context of the video should be made clear and it can give clarity on whether the Gardai did in fact act inappropriately.

Overheal

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is a long thread that has lots of articles saying as such posted, maybe go through it.

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

You must be new to the internet, have a look at the page number you are on, go to the first page and read through all of them, enjoy.

It's also a long thread full of tons, and tons of content that is not relevant to the claim being made. Pointing off widely to 'the whole thread' is clouding the argument and obfuscating. Nevermind your gaslighting people who challenge your assertion, about their abilities to use the internet. If you can think well enough of one or two examples which may or may not have been mentioned in the thread, why not instead be so good as to repeat them? After all you deemed fit to jump in here and support Mr Karate's sweeping generalization, so we presume you are in reach of supporting evidence, unless this is just a "my gut feeling" argument from you, in which case it would be good of you to say so, and withdraw from the puerile swipes, imho.