BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

Rubbish. There was never any ' rightists '. This is an invented term ( one of them ) by the media to deflect from the many holes in the progressive, leftist ideology.

What is referred to as the right, or ( God help us ) the ' far right ' is actually the default state of human beings for the vast majority of human history. We have evolved under Darwinian selection to be conservative because resources such as food, energy, shelter and medicine were scarce.

So spare us that nonsense about ' the right ' . On the other hand... ' the left ' are a product of the very success of traditional values. That at least should soften their cough somewhat. But they don't have such levels of self awareness, so we wont hold our breath.

So the rightists are just primates yeah

Biker79

20Cent wrote: »

Think the opposite myself,
Have a look at all the right wing grifters out there making money spewing rubbish. Katie Hopkins, Alex Jones, Paul Watson, Milo etc etc.
Don't see the same thing on the left.
.

Thats because the left have managed to dominate cultural institutions like universities and the media, along with strong assistance from tech companies. Although tech only think about the relationship between positive virtue signalling and advertising revenues, rather than from any particular moral compass.

Grifters? You mean people who have their livelihoods cancelled by the leftist ' spiteful mutant ' media? I think that's what a grifter is.

iF there was global agreement on internet public platforms - ie, free speech..as there was under the law before the days of free internet - you would soon see the demise of leftism because bad ideas will inevitably be defeated by good ones, when the competition is free and fair.

Biker79

Overheal wrote: »

So the rightists are just primates yeah

If it weren't for the industrial revolution, lefties would not have survived.

Some food for thought there for you Overheal. Only that's not a conspiracy.

20Cent

Biker79 wrote: »

Thats because the left have managed to dominate cultural institutions like universities and the media, along with strong assistance from tech companies. Although tech only think about the relationship between positive virtue signalling and advertising revenues, rather than from any particular moral compass.

Grifters? You mean people who have their livelihoods cancelled by the leftist ' spiteful mutant ' media? I think that's what a grifter is.

iF there was global agreement on internet public platforms - ie, free speech..as there was under the law before the days of free internet - you would soon see the demise of leftism because bad ideas will inevitably be defeated by good ones, when the competition is free and fair.

I hear "the left" dominate universities, entertainment and whatnot since the 60's yet in the US there is no real left wing political party, even Bernie Sanders would fit into the Tory party or FF/FG no problem.

The tech industry is very libertarian and right wing, they pay lip service to things like gender, discrimination and things like that which are considered left wing for some reason. But they are not so cool with unions or labour rights.

By grifters I mean these people like Alex Jones, he is insincere, he is making stuff up in order to sell products that is all. Unfortunately a lot of people take him seriously though. Don't really see left wing versions of this. We see stories and fake scandals which any objective person sees right through as rubbish but the right seem to lap it up.

Deebles McBeebles

Overheal wrote: »

So the rightists are just primates yeah

In civilised minds, O. The far-right is the normal here though according to Biker. Like we didn't already realise that. Its gas though, you'd get more sense out of Gemma O'Doherty.

Deebles McBeebles

20Cent wrote: »

By grifters I mean these people like Alex Jones, he is insincere, he is making stuff up in order to sell products that is all. Unfortunately a lot of people take him seriously though. Don't really see left wing versions of this. We see stories and fake scandals which any objective person sees right through as rubbish but the right seem to lap it up.

Perfectly describes Andy the "balanced" and "trustworthy" reporter on Twitter too. Lap it up like thirsty kittens.

Sand

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Perfectly describes Andy the "balanced" and "trustworthy" reporter on Twitter too. Lap it up like thirsty kittens.

You really have to get over Ngo. Do something positive instead. You'll feel better in yourself.

statesaver

Amazing how one man scares the bejaysus out of the left.

Deebles McBeebles

Sand wrote: »

You really have to get over Ngo. Do something positive instead. You'll feel better in yourself.

Nah, I'm grand, Sand. That is very good advice for everyone here though. Seriously lads, listen to him.

statesaver wrote: »

Amazing how one man scares the bejaysus out of the left.

More amuses than scares. It's such a stretch to take him seriously. I'm not particularly left myself. Although that is attributed to me in this thread, as I don't agree with the concensus, probably more in the centre. Not everyone who disagrees with obvious far-right tactics are "lefties".

Biker79

Some quality back pedalling there Deebles

You've done this before.. :pac:

nolivesmatter

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Nah, I'm grand, Sand. That is very good advice for everyone here though. Seriously lads, listen to him.

More amuses than scares. It's such a stretch to take him seriously. I'm not particularly left myself. Although that is attributed to me in this thread, as I don't agree with the concensus, probably more in the centre. Not everyone who disagrees with obvious far-right tactics are "lefties".

You may not be one of the "lefties" but attempting to discredit someone rather than tackle what it is they are saying is right out of their playbook.

Biker79

20Cent wrote: »

I hear "the left" dominate universities, entertainment and whatnot since the 60's yet in the US there is no real left wing political party, even Bernie Sanders would fit into the Tory party or FF/FG no problem.

The tech industry is very libertarian and right wing, they pay lip service to things like gender, discrimination and things like that which are considered left wing for some reason. But they are not so cool with unions or labour rights.

By grifters I mean these people like Alex Jones, he is insincere, he is making stuff up in order to sell products that is all. Unfortunately a lot of people take him seriously though. Don't really see left wing versions of this. We see stories and fake scandals which any objective person sees right through as rubbish but the right seem to lap it up.

I guess you could say that tech has embraced the new left ( Woke) which has little to do with the old left, but they have done so in a self serving disingenuous way. So have universities because they must pander to the whims of paying students....at the expense of their own good sense.

People like Alex Jones are no different than traditional media. They both employ methods to hook their audience. The element of info-tainment cant be untangled from the news, for either party, there are just different approaches for each of them.

Both use analytics tools like sentiment analysis to determine what stories to run with it in terms of viewer engagement predictions. Sometimes the data on that leads to poor decisions, like Jones and the Sandy Hook mass shooting.

Biafranlivemat

Another peaceful protest, this one is from Kansas City.
scumbag says.

“You don’t think that we have extensive researchers? You don’t think we know where all y’all live? You don’t think we don’t know where your children go to school? Who the f–k do you think we are?”

https://policetribune.com/dont-think-we-dont-know-where-your-children-go-to-school-anti-police-activist-threatens-to-target-cops-and-families/

20Cent

Biker79 wrote: »

I guess you could say that tech has embraced the new left ( Woke) which has little to do with the old left, but they have done so in a self serving disingenuous way. So have universities because they must pander to the whims of paying students....at the expense of their own good sense.

People like Alex Jones are no different than traditional media. They both employ methods to hook their audience. The element of info-tainment cant be untangled from the news, for either party, there are just different approaches for each of them.

Both use analytics tools like sentiment analysis to determine what stories to run with it in terms of viewer engagement predictions. Sometimes the data on that leads to poor decisions, like Jones and the Sandy Hook mass shooting.

Think that is a false equivalence, the "they all do it2 argument.
Don't see anything comparable to Alex Jones on the left they don't tend to tolerate stuff like that. Someone above nailed it imo, they wind the left up (not scare) right wingers put up with people like Katie Hopkins because they like how much she winds up people they don't like. All this worked well in 2016 and we ended up with the wind up candidate Donald J Trump winning. Not so funny now thought with 210,000 and counting dead.

Biker79

20Cent wrote: »

Think that is a false equivalence, the "they all do it2 argument.
Don't see anything comparable to Alex Jones on the left they don't tend to tolerate stuff like that. Someone above nailed it imo, they wind the left up (not scare) right wingers put up with people like Katie Hopkins because they like how much she winds up people they don't like. All this worked well in 2016 and we ended up with the wind up candidate Donald J Trump winning. Not so funny now thought with 210,000 and counting dead.

Its not false equivalence. They are not in the business of telling the truth for common good - they are in business of selling news under the law to make a profit. Telling the truth and making money are often mutually exclusive.

20Cent

Biker79 wrote: »

Its not false equivalence. They are not in the business of telling the truth for common good - they are in business of selling news under the law to make a profit. Telling the truth and making money are often mutually exclusive.

CNN or the New York Times is the same as Alex Jones.
Sure.
It's a false equivalence.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

Which is prone to a load of recency bias, wouldn't you say?

These are 24 mugshots, out of a Portland sample set of 540 (4.4%), Which would itself be a sample set of the 10,000 or so arrests we've discussed frequently here (0.24%, 5.4% Portland).

...

Seriously are you just making things up now or deliberately contrarian? Its hard to know tbh.

I presume your talking about this mugshot posted previously



From the same link

A majority of cases involve suspects who are white and male, constituting 77 and 67 percent respectively. 83 percent of the suspects are young adults aged 18–35.

https://thepostmillennial.com/portland-d-a-rejects-over-540-riot-related-cases-in-interest-of-justice

Dyr

BattleCorp wrote: »

Kyle Rittenhouse has had one gun charge dropped. Turns out he didn't illegally bring a gun across state lines.

He still has a pile of other charges to face but I can see him overcoming them too.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-kyle-rittenhouse-gun-20201013-cp5ecbdjx5didir6bwdkxyoa3m-story.html

The importantt thing is the narrative not the truth.

gozunda

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Perfectly describes Andy the "balanced" and "trustworthy" reporter on Twitter too. Lap it up like thirsty kittens.

You've posted a bunch of wiki quotes which bar one or two factual observations such that Ngo was once fired from a student newspaper and has filed a lawsuit against Rose City Antifa - amount to little more than innuendo and name calling and together really says fuk all.

The most interesting allegation of all of it was this.

BuzzFeed News said that "Ngo's work is probably best described as media activism" and that he engages in "participant reporting"

And those charges can absolutely be leveled at both blm and Antifa who openly and aggressively control who can report on their 'protests'

Without doubt the pro Antifa/blm supporters are going to hate Ngo or anyone else and throw ****e in order to discredit any reporting which shows their rioting as anything other than "fiery but peaceful protests"

Maybe its also the farmers fault as well - wha ya reckon?

Good to know we have people who support that bias ...

20Cent

gozunda wrote: »

You've posted a bunch of wiki quotes which bar one or two factual observations such that Ngo was once fired from a student newspaper and has filed a lawsuit against Rose City Antifa - amount to little more than innuendo and name calling and together really says fuk all.

The most interesting allegation of all of it was this.



And those charges can absolutely be leveled at both blm and Antifa who openly and aggressively control who can report on their 'protests'

Without doubt the pro Antifa/blm supporters are going to hate Ngo or anyone else and throw ****e in order to discredit any reporting which shows their rioting as anything other than "fiery but peaceful protests"

Maybe its also the farmers fault as well - wha ya reckon?

Good to know we have people who support that bias ...

Ngo took part in an attack on a bar where far right thugs attacked people having a drink, one woman was seriously injured. A real journalist does not partake in crimes. They dislike him because he puts their lives in danger and amplifies far right voices while reporting disingenuously.

gozunda

20Cent wrote: »

Ngo took part in an attack on a bar where far right thugs attacked people having a drink, one woman was seriously injured. A real journalist does not partake in crimes. They dislike him because he puts their lives in danger and amplifies far right voices while reporting disingenuously.

"Took part in" really? You embellishing what is alleged now or just going with the evident bias?

This is what the writer of the article in Wiki claims

footage was published showing Ngo with armed Patriot Prayer members prior to an alleged attack on a bar frequented by antifa protesters. Ngo did not film the alleged planning of the attack, but did film parts of the attack itself. Ngo disputes that he was aware of the details of the plan.

There is no claim there that he took part in the attack itself but rather filmed it.

Its a bit bizarre to try and claim the alleged video footage of Ngo could not have been selectively edited when making the exact same claims about Ngo himself or even that Ngo could of been simply working on the basis of a tip-off.

The worst which can be said of Ngo is that he is possibly fighting fire with fire.

The fact that blm/antifa openly and violently control who and what is reported ensures that they will target anyone nor following their own script of 'fiery but peaceful protests' which we know from other sources is an absolute corruption of what has actually taken place

20Cent

gozunda wrote: »

"Took part in" really? You embellishing what is alleged now or just going with the evident bias?

This is what the writer of the article in Wiki claims



There is no claim there thst he took part in the attack itself but rather filmed it.

Its a bit bizarre to try and claim the alleged video footage of Ngo was itself could not have been edited when making the exact same claims about Ngo himself or even that Ngo was working on the basis of a tip-off.

The worst which can be said if Ngo is that he is possibly fighting fire with fire.

The fact that blm/antifa openly and violently control who and what is reported ensures that they will target anyone nor following their own script of 'fiery but peaceful protests' which we know from other sources is an absolute corruption of what has actually taken place

Antifa control the media while simultaneously being week middle class nerds.
Get the story straight at lest.

Overheal

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously are you just making things up now or deliberately contrarian? Its hard to know tbh.

I presume your talking about this mugshot posted previously



From the same link



https://thepostmillennial.com/portland-d-a-rejects-over-540-riot-related-cases-in-interest-of-justice

I stand behind what I said. 10k arrests and this is a small sample set.

gozunda

20Cent wrote: »

Antifa control the media while simultaneously being week middle class nerds.
Get the story straight at lest.

Where was it stated "Antifa control the media while simultaneously being week middle class nerds"

These groups are most certainly on record for controlling who and what is reported at their 'protests'.

I have made no declaration of them being "week middle class nerds". Thems your words. But you could be right

At least don't make things up ...

Biker79

20Cent wrote: »

CNN or the New York Times is the same as Alex Jones.
Sure.
It's a false equivalence.

Two sides of the same coin.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

I stand behind what I said. 10k arrests and this is a small sample set.

It followed from this discussion. The stats give a breakdown of the Portland protesters arrested.

Overheal wrote:

Can you link to these arrest records please?

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Ok, I’ll rephrase - going by the profiles I’ve seen of those that are being arrested.
Or are you arguing that it’s mostly BLM and not Antifa doing the violent law breaking and looting?

Overheal

gozunda wrote: »

It followed from this discussion. The stats give a breakdown of the Portland protesters arrested.

You’re the third wheel in this conversation you don’t need to tell me what it was from.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

You’re the third wheel in this conversation you don’t need to tell me what it was from.

Lol. "Third wheel". It's a discussion on a public forum - I didnt realise others are prohibited from commenting on posts here. But yes you're apparently missing the point by means of deliberate obfuscation. But no matter.

Overheal

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. "Third wheel". It's a discussion on a public forum - I didnt realise others are prohibited from commenting on posts here. But yes you're apparently missing the point by means of deliberate obfuscation. But no matter.

You're deliberately misrepresenting my point: you're 'mansplaining' to me about a conversation where I was one of the 2 people you quoted, as though I didn't understand the context.

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

You're deliberately misrepresenting my point: you're 'mansplaining' to me about a conversation where I was one of the 2 people you quoted, as though I didn't understand the context.

Nope. Incorrect imo you understood alright - but decided to not only split hairs - you then decided move the goalposts. Sorry if pointing that out doesn't suit. :pac:

Btw good of you to bring in an accusation of sexism to the usual one of 'racism" where someone disagrees ...