BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

20Cent

gozunda wrote: »

20cent. That research has already been dragged up several times. The claims made about "peaceful protestors " do not stand up to scrutiny.

What you have quoted above covers all demonstration not just BLM protest/ riots.

*The wording taken directly from the actual report regarding the BLM protests/ riots details that:

* https://acleddata.com/2020/08/31/us-crisis-monitor-releases-full-data-for-summer-2020/

Under the heading "The Black Lives Matter Movement"



That does not explicitly state these events were without violence. What it does suggests that in at least 93% of events / protests - at least some protestors were engaging in violence and that just 7% of all protests which were completly peaceful

Looking at the study methodology - it is evident that it is a stand alone study with the data on violence being gathered solely from news reports.

It has been shown that many of the main media sources are frequently not reporting on many of the blm protests and riots

However it would appear that real-time reports and video footage coming from independent reporters and members of the public are not included in the study.

It is a fact that the all too frequent violence of blm protests are online for all to see.

Reads pretty clear to me : The vast majority of these events — more than 93% — involve non-violent demonstrators


Some other facts from the report:

• Non-state actors are becoming more aggressive and are increasingly engaging demonstrators
• Since Floyd’s killing, ACLED records over 100 events in which non-state actors intervened in demonstrations, including militia groups as well as individual attackers
• Individual perpetrators — sometimes linked to hate groups like the KKK — have launched dozens of car-ramming attacks targeting demonstrations around the country
• Since May, over 360 counter-protests have been reported around the country
• Of these, more than 40 — nearly 12% — turned violent

Looks like a lot of what is being blamed on BLM are other far right actors getting involved.

Thanks for the link.

20Cent

WLM and ALM are just created to dilute the issue.
It's like showing up and a charity run for Breast cancer complaining that all cancers matter and that the organisers hate people with other types. Stupid.

gozunda

20Cent wrote: »

Reads pretty clear to me : The vast majority of these events — more than 93% — involve non-violent demonstrators

...

Looks like a lot of what is being blamed on BLM are other far right actors getting involved.
Thanks for the link.

Nope. It doesn't - there's a very clear distinction here.

"more than 93% (of events)  — involve non-violent demonstrators"

Ie - 93% events / protests INVOLVE "non-violent demonstators". No where there does it state these 93% blm events / protests were completly peaceful.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

The points you detail appear to generalised statements. I see no data to back any of that in the study tbh.

It remains that a stand alone study with the data on violence being gathered solely from news reports.

It has been shown that many of the main media sources are frequently not reporting on many of the blm protests and riots

However it would appear that real-time reports and video footage coming from independent reporters and members of the public are not included in the study.

It is a fact that the all too frequent violence of blm protests are online for all to see.

20Cent

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. It doesn't there's very clear distinction here.

"more than 93% — involve non-violent demonstrators"

Ie - 93% events / protests INVOLVE "non-violent demonstators". No where there does it state these events / protests were completly peaceful.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

The points you detail appear to be genealisdd statements. I see no data to back any of that up tbh.

It remains that a stand alone study with the data on violence being gathered solely from news reports.

It has been shown that many of the main media sources are frequently not reporting on many of the blm protests and riots

However it would appear that real-time reports and video footage coming from independent reporters and members of the public are not included in the study.

It is a fact that the all too frequent violence of blm protests are online for all to see.

Really stretching there dude.
Yep there has been some trouble but the vast majority have been peaceful.
Much of the violence has been counter protestors and hangers on.

Sweetemotion

20Cent wrote: »

Really stretching there dude.
Yep there has been some trouble but the vast majority have been peaceful.
Much of the violence has been counter protestors and hangers on.

Antifa being the hanger ons.

Frankie Machine

20Cent wrote: »

WLM and ALM are just created to dilute the issue.
It's like showing up and a charity run for Breast cancer complaining that all cancers matter and that the organisers hate people with other types. Stupid.

Wow. What a f,,,ing crass analogy.

And stupid.

Because the real parallel would be -

... the charity run for breast cancer comes along and wrecks the facilities that are paid for by others, and for the use of everyone.

But the organisers say that they should be allowed to do that, because their cancer is worse than everyone else's.

Indeed, is caused by everyone else.


Apart from that -

Shame on you for such a witless attempt at equivalence.

biko

Instagram account Support Black Art seem to have issue with white people

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGaX7ZAhvNE/?igshid=e37p10pw8q6f

gozunda

20Cent wrote: »

Really stretching there dude.
Yep there has been some trouble but the vast majority have been peaceful.
Much of the violence has been counter protestors and hangers on.

I've worked in a professional capacity with statistics. And the report does not state that the "the vast majority have been peaceful"

Again what it does say - is that 93% of events INVOLVED peaceful (non violent) protestors but not that these events themselves were completly peaceful.

There's a very distinct difference in those statements.

The study did not measure for "counter protestors and hangers on"

The study recorded "events"

Watch this collection of videos and tell me that "Much of the violence has been counter protestors and hangers on" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2igBlq0-Qo

20Cent

gozunda wrote: »

I've worked in a professional capacity with statistics. And the report does not state that the "the vast majority have been peaceful"

Again what it does say - is that 93% of events INVOLVED peaceful protestors but not that these events themselves were completly peaceful.

There's a very distinct difference in those statements.

The study did not measure for "counter protestors and hangers on"

The study recorded "events"

Watch this collection of videos and tell me that "Much of the violence has been counter protestors and hangers on" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2igBlq0-Qo

[/QUOTE]

Strange way of reading it.

No one denying there has been a bit of trouble.
Still doesn't mean the whole movement has no merit.
Anywhere with a big crowd some will get a bit excited.

biko

20Cent wrote: »

Anywhere with a big crowd some will get a bit excited.

Hong Kong, demonstrations for months. No riots.
France, demonstrations for months. No riots.
BLM, demonstrations for a couple days. Riots.

20Cent

biko wrote: »

Hong Kong, demonstrations for months. No riots.
France, demonstrations for months. No riots.
BLM, demonstrations for a couple days. Riots.

Is this sarcasm?
Can't tell anymore.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

WLM and ALM are just created to dilute the issue.
It's like showing up and a charity run for Breast cancer complaining that all cancers matter and that the organisers hate people with other types. Stupid.

That analogy would only work if breast cancer charities were demanding that anyone without breast cancer should apologise for not having it.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Strange way of reading it.

No one denying there has been a bit of trouble.
Still doesn't mean the whole movement has no merit.
Anywhere with a big crowd some will get a bit excited.

****ing LOL.

A bit of trouble? Some people getting "excited"?

I'm sure you'd be as generous to an ideology opposed to yours which caused as much damage and injuries.

Would you ****.

Get the ****ing boat.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

That analogy would only work if breast cancer charities were demanding that anyone without breast cancer should apologise for not having it.

Just shows how ingrained white privilege is that when black people say their lives matter you think it's taking something from you.

gozunda

20Cent wrote: »

Strange way of reading it.

No one denying there has been a bit of trouble.
Still doesn't mean the whole movement has no merit.
Anywhere with a big crowd some will get a bit excited.

Ah sure they were just fooling around eh?

Tell that to business owners of all races who've had their property and livelihoods looted and / or burned to the ground.

Tell that to those people violently attacked who had nothing to do with the protests

Tell that to the innocent bystsnders harassed and intimidated.

You don't have to be a ****wit to protest

But if you are - sure someone will come along and just say you just got a bit excited...

Overheal

you know, this came back up on my youtube feed, and I realized nothing has changed as regard to the conversation which is just in complete circles.

I find it to be a good dive by Oliver, and even makes valid criticisms of Joe Biden and Democrats in it, it's reasonably balanced from someone as liberal as he, - barring a lot of F-bombs. If anyone wants to take a stab at any of the content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY

CarProblem

I swore to myself I'd not post in this thread in case my head exploded, I swore but.....

20Cent wrote: »

What is the evidence that "a lot of their support" are thugs?

Only 5% of marches had violence at them.

20Cent wrote: »

Sorry but there is no evidence that a "sizable amount" are violent. The vast majority have been peaceful. It is also wrong to blame anything that happens anywhere on BLM as well like that tweet above. It is a peaceful organisation trying to do some good for their community and they should be commended for it. Hopefully there will be police reforms to stop this happening again.

20Cent wrote: »

Reads pretty clear to me : The vast majority of these events — more than 93% — involve non-violent demonstrators

So 7% (or 7 out of 100) being violent isn't something you worry about, grand close the thread as you surely then aren't worried about

- 1 in 10,000 arrests leading to the police killing someone
- c7 in 1 million leading to an unarmed person being killed
- note the above stats don't relate to black people but people of any skin colour

Let me guess, you'll twist the above to say but,but,but.....

I've become accustomed to the way "debating" on the internet works so I'll preempt some responses

- nowhere have I said that I don't care about people killed by the police (armed or unarmed)
- I'm simply wondering why 7/100 isn't something to worry about relative to other much smaller percentages

But sure, another poster isn't worried about rioting as it's only caused c$2bn in damages

20Cent wrote: »

Blaming the group for the actions of a few.
Not a good thing to do really.

A lot of people would say similar about the police

nolivesmatter

Overheal wrote: »

you know, this came back up on my youtube feed, and I realized nothing has changed as regard to the conversation which is just in complete circles.

I find it to be a good dive by Oliver, and even makes valid criticisms of Joe Biden and Democrats in it, it's reasonably balanced from someone as liberal as he, - barring a lot of F-bombs. If anyone wants to take a stab at any of the content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY

I'll give it a watch. Cards on the table I really don't like John Oliver so I'll have to do my best to not let that affect my judgement.

20Cent

CarProblem wrote: »

I swore to myself I'd not post in this thread in case my head exploded, I swore but.....







So 7% (or 7 out of 100) being violent isn't something you worry about, grand close the thread as you surely then aren't worried about

- 1 in 10,000 arrests leading to the police killing someone
- c7 in 1 million leading to an unarmed person being killed
- note the above stats don't relate to black people but people of any skin colour

Let me guess, you'll twist the above to say but,but,but.....

I've become accustomed to the way "debating" on the internet works so I'll preempt some responses

- nowhere have I said that I don't care about people killed by the police (armed or unarmed)
- I'm simply wondering why 7/100 isn't something to worry about relative to other much smaller percentages

But sure, another poster isn't worried about rioting as it's only caused c$2bn in damages



A lot of people would say similar about the police

Police can't afford any bad apples. It's like saying 99% of our pilots can land a plane. Wouldn't fly with them. Other cops should call out bad behaviour from colleagues.
If Trump had announced measures to get rid of racism from the police force and a zero tolerance policy then much of what happened could have been avoided.

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

Just shows how ingrained white privilege is that when black people say their lives matter you think it's taking something from you.

It's taking police protection away from people.

Frankie Machine

20Cent wrote: »

If Trump had announced measures to get rid of racism from the police force and a zero tolerance policy then much of what happened could have been avoided.

All very straightforward, indeed.

A problem beyond the wit of Obama, Clinton, Carter, Kennedy at al...

yet, Trump is responsible because he didn't announce measures.

:rolleyes:

nolivesmatter

20Cent wrote: »

Police can't afford any bad apples. It's like saying 99% of our pilots can land a plane. Wouldn't fly with them. Other cops should call out bad behaviour from colleagues.
If Trump had announced measures to get rid of racism from the police force and a zero tolerance policy then much of what happened could have been avoided.

That sounds very naïve. Police just like all professions will always have some bad apples (and that includes pilots).

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Just shows how ingrained white privilege is that when black people say their lives matter you think it's taking something from you.

Just goes to show that you judge people by the colour of their skin rather than their character.

I abhor racism and fight it whenever it presents itself.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

you know, this came back up on my youtube feed, and I realized nothing has changed as regard to the conversation which is just in complete circles.

I find it to be a good dive by Oliver, and even makes valid criticisms of Joe Biden and Democrats in it, it's reasonably balanced from someone as liberal as he, - barring a lot of F-bombs. If anyone wants to take a stab at any of the content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY

It did give me a giggle when you said John Oliver is balanced. Thank you.

CarProblem

CarProblem wrote: »

I swore to myself I'd not post in this thread in case my head exploded, I swore but.....







So 7% (or 7 out of 100) being violent isn't something you worry about, grand close the thread as you surely then aren't worried about

- 1 in 10,000 arrests leading to the police killing someone
- c7 in 1 million leading to an unarmed person being killed
- note the above stats don't relate to black people but people of any skin colour

Let me guess, you'll twist the above to say but,but,but.....

I've become accustomed to the way "debating" on the internet works so I'll preempt some responses

- nowhere have I said that I don't care about people killed by the police (armed or unarmed)
- I'm simply wondering why 7/100 isn't something to worry about relative to other much smaller percentages

But sure, another poster isn't worried about rioting as it's only caused c$2bn in damages



A lot of people would say similar about the police

Thank you

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Police can't afford any bad apples. It's like saying 99% of our pilots can land a plane. Wouldn't fly with them. Other cops should call out bad behaviour from colleagues.
If Trump had announced measures to get rid of racism from the police force and a zero tolerance policy then much of what happened could have been avoided.

Get rid of racism.

What a simplistic and skewed world view you must have.

What could trump have done to abolish racism?

MisterAnarchy

Signs that the tide is turning against BLM, at least in the UK.
People are finally realising what a toxic organisation BLM is.

"BLM is an anti capitalist Political movement"
"I want to be absolutely clear, this Government stands unequivocally against Critical Race Theory"

https://twitter.com/calvinrobinson/status/1318624835937931265

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Get rid of racism.

What a simplistic and skewed world view you must have.

What could trump have done to abolish racism?

From the police force.
You left out the last bit.
Plenty that could be done, Trump fanned the flames for his own reasons rather than show any leadership.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

From the police force.
You left out the last bit.
Plenty that could be done, Trump fanned the flames for his own reasons rather than show any leadership.

Oh cool.

What were "his own reasons"?

I'm all ears.

Abolish racism from the police force... I've heard it all now

Frankie Machine

20Cent wrote: »

From the police force.
You left out the last bit.
Plenty that could be done, Trump fanned the flames for his own reasons rather than show any leadership.

Listen, what you need to realise is this -

One big reason why Trump even got near the presidency is that the Democrats for decades now have cultivated the deranged demographic of identity politics, race politics, gender studies, rainbow claptrap... at the expense of the completely alienated 'average working Joe' vote.

The real reason that many MOR Republicans hate the Democrats - is that they consistently fail to produce a credible moderate candidate for a two-horse race.

As you sow, shall you reap. And here we are.