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BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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    #7322
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    Straight cover up. The jurors were not even given to chance to bring wrongful death charges.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/20/grand-juror-speaks-after-judge-ruling-in-breonna-taylor-case

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



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    #7323
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Overheal wrote: »
    Neither is yours :rolleyes:

    You're making the claim. Burden of proof is on you, not me.


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    #7324
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sand wrote: »
    You're making the claim. Burden of proof is on you, not me.

    The tenant is making the claim and proof is the video.

    Come on now. Really sophomoric stuff here.


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    #7325
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Overheal wrote: »
    You say she said “those exact words”

    The exact words she said are at 20 seconds in
    "an ideology that sees my blackness as victimhood and their whiteness as oppression”.

    I've added the link here so you don't have to go scrolling to remind yourself of what was said. https://twitter.com/calvinrobinson/status/1318624835937931265

    You don't mention the racial slur mentioned at 56 seconds. Can we take it that you support white BLM supporters calling black policemen such terms?

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #7326
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    Your source doesn’t say Critical Race Theory is what you said it is. You said it posits that whites people are “born racist” your source says they are born with privileges. Do you see having privileges as being synonymous with being racist? If so, why

    Let's pretend for a moment that that this isn't going into devolve into yet another hair splitting exercise.

    The two sources I linked do not use the exact same words I did. You will note I don't use quotation marks in my original comment to which you replied.

    What both sources do detail is the same in that CRT an ideology attempts to dictate that being born with white skin, in itself, gives unearned privileges and sees "blackness as victimhood" and "whiteness as oppression” and that "all white(s) ...are guilty oppressors"

    So let me paraphrase thst in the context of this discussionon on racism - CRT posits that all white people are privileged oppressors of black people.

    And yes in context - this identifies all those born with white skin therefore guilty of racism - Where the given definition of racism is "the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another" (Mirriam Webster dictionary)

    Now the fact remains that any theoretical framework which judges and denigrates people on the basis of their skin colour is in itself racist.

    Let me ask you a question. How do you feel about being identified as a born privileged oppressor of black people for the reason you were born white and regardless of your situation in life? How do you feel about being identified as racist because of that?


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    #7327
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    iamstop wrote: »
    Straight cover up. The jurors were not even given to chance to bring wrongful death charges.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/20/grand-juror-speaks-after-judge-ruling-in-breonna-taylor-case

    Yep. Two different justice systems in the United States.


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    #7328
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gozunda wrote: »
    Let's pretend for a moment that that this isn't going into devolve into yet another hair splitting exercise.

    The two sources I linked do not use the exact same words I did. You will note I don't use quotation marks in my original comment to which you replied.

    What both sources do detail is the same in that CRT an ideology attempts to dictate that being born with white skin, in itself, gives unearned privileges and sees "blackness as victimhood" and "whiteness as oppression” and that "all white(s) ...are guilty oppressors"

    So let me paraphrase thst in the context of this discussionon on racism - CRT posits that all white people are privileged oppressors of black people.

    And yes in context - this identifies all those born with white skin therefore guilty of racism - Where the given definition of racism is "the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another" (Mirriam Webster dictionary)

    Now the fact is any theoretical framework which judges and denigrated people on the basis of their skin colour is in itself racist.

    Let me ask you a question. How do you feel about being identified as a born privileged oppressor of black people for the reason you were born white and regardless of your situation in life? How do you feel about being identified as racist because of that?

    From your given definition of racism being born with privilege does not satisfy the conditions which must all be present for being racist. Whites are born with a political advantage. Whites are not born systematically oppressing anyone.

    So your paraphrase, that CRT implies whites are born racist, seems fundamentally flawed.


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    #7329
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Marcos wrote: »
    The exact words she said are at 20 seconds in

    I've added the link here so you don't have to go scrolling to remind yourself of what was said. https://twitter.com/calvinrobinson/status/1318624835937931265

    You don't mention the racial slur mentioned at 56 seconds. Can we take it that you support white BLM supporters calling black policemen such terms?

    Those aren’t “the exact words” we’re talking about at all. Let me clarify: Gozundas claim is that Critical Race Theory believes that “whites are born racist,” a phrase or implication not mentioned thus far in this clip or in any source provided to back up this claim.


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    #7330
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    From your given definition of racism being born with privilege does not satisfy the conditions which must all be present for being racist. Whites are born with a political advantage. Whites are not born systematically oppressing anyone.

    So your paraphrase, that CRT implies whites are born racist, seems fundamentally flawed.

    Still hair splitting I see ... let's leave off with that ok?

    It satisfies those conditions when used in the context of CRT ideology where those born
    with white skin are privileged oppressors...

    And whilst I agree with the highlighted bit of your comment - critical race theory however posits exactly that.

    From my previous comment - where I quoted
    Dr. Carol Swain, former political science and law professor at Vanderbilt University futher explains
    Critical race theory assumes that racism is permanent and affects every aspect of our society, including political, economic, social and religious institutions. The theory further advances the belief that being born with white skin, in itself, gives unearned privileges...

    According to the narrative, all white Americans are guilty oppressors who have benefitted from their white skin     even if their parents are, say, Appalachian poor or high school dropouts working at the local big-box franchise store (if employed at all).

    So unless you are going to dig that hole any deeper- then CRT does indeed posit that those born white are racist going by the modern understanding of that term

    I presume you also disagree with what Kemi Badenoc has detailed about critical race theory


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    #7331
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Overheal wrote: »
    The tenant is making the claim and proof is the video.

    "Imagine someone barging into your new home because you are the wrong color"

    You made the above claim. The burden of proof is on you.

    The video only proves the neighbors denied that was the reason.


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    #7332
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sand wrote: »
    "Imagine someone barging into your new home because you are the wrong color"

    You made the above claim. The burden of proof is on you.

    The video only proves the neighbors denied that was the reason.

    How is asking you to imagine something a claim?


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    #7333
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Overheal wrote: »
    How is asking you to imagine something a claim?

    Oh, so you were inviting a random thought experiment completely unrelated to the video you posted. So what was the 'wrong colour' in this thought experiment?


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    #7334
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sand wrote: »
    Oh, so you were inviting a random thought experiment completely unrelated to the video you posted. So what was the 'wrong colour' in this thought experiment?

    I’m not sure what’s difficult about this. See the video. The claim is in the video the proof is in the video.

    The wrong color in this context is being the black tenant of a nice home in a presumably upscale white neighborhood so much so that neighbors barge into your new home because they can’t compute a black man living there.

    What was so hard about this? And I get accused of splitting hairs! :pac:


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    #7335
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    Uhm what?
    Kidnapping harassment and extortion aren’t corruption?

    chxst not again...

    I made no comment regarding the OPs claim that "Nigerian police are corrupt"

    If they wish to make such a remark that's on their head.

    So can you stick with the comment made and not just make stuff up. Thanks.


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    #7336
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gozunda wrote: »
    chxst not again...

    I made no comment regarding the OP claim that "Nigerian police are corrupt"

    If they wish to make such a remark that's on their head.

    So can you stick with the comment made and not just make stuff up. Thanks.

    I am sticking with the comment made:
    gozunda wrote: »
    20Cent wrote: »
    Nigerian police are corrupt.
    Obviously.
    Silly argument, cops kill people for different reasons.
    Really stretching this here ya know.

    Incorrect. Its not an "argument". It this case the demonstrators have taken part in daily protests across the country for nearly two weeks over widespread claims of kidnapping, harassment, and extortion by a police unit know as the Special Anti-Robbery Squad (SARS). 

    So there are claims of brutality. Are all such incidents racist? I doubt it. The same applies to policing in the US.


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    #7337
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    I am sticking with the comment made:

    Nope. You're not

    Where exactly did I give any opinion on the posters statement that "Nigerian police are corrupt" ...

    If you're going to make a comment btw - please read all the posts.


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    #7338
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gozunda wrote: »
    Nope. You're not

    Where exactly did I give any opinion on the posters statement that "Nigerian police are corrupt" ...

    If you're going to make a comment btw - please read all the posts.

    I'm looking right at it.


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    #7339
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    I'm looking right at it.

    Rflol. To quote you. Exact "words" please - where I give any opinion on the OPs comment that "Nigerian police are corrupt"


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    #7340
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gozunda wrote: »
    Rflol. To quote you. Exact "words" please - where I say "Nigerian police are not corrupt"

    #7336, or #7315


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    #7341
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Overheal wrote: »
    #7336, or #7315

    quote the Exact Words where I give an opinion on the OP saying the "Nigerian police are corrupt"

    You can't can you?

    Just endless obfuscation and even more rubbish.

    I'd suggest you read the original comment to understand the conversation but you probably won't ...

    :rolleyes:


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    #7342
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m not sure what’s difficult about this. See the video. The claim is in the video the proof is in the video.

    Whats the proof in the video? The part where they deny it?
    The wrong color in this context...

    What is the context? Your thought experiment or the video?
    ...is being the black tenant of a nice home in a presumably upscale white neighborhood so much so that neighbors barge into your new home because they can’t compute a black man living there.

    Is this your claim now, or another thought experiment? Because its getting hard to keep track.
    What was so hard about this? And I get accused of splitting hairs! :pac:

    I think its the part where you say something, and then pretend you didn't say it, someone else did. That's what makes it hard to follow.


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    #7343
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sand wrote: »
    Whats the proof in the video? The part where they deny it?



    What is the context? Your thought experiment or the video?



    Is this your claim now, or another thought experiment? Because its getting hard to keep track.



    I think its the part where you say something, and then pretend you didn't say it, someone else did. That's what makes it hard to follow.

    I’m sure you believe anyone who says “I didn’t do it” as well?

    Critical thinking.


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    #7344
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Happens all the time:

    Black barrister mistaken for defendant three times gets apology
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-54281111


    On a side note :)
    Ek3T27mWkAA8zbT?format=jpg&name=900x900


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    #7345
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I’m sure they all assumed she couldn’t possibly a barrister for any other reason than her skin color


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    #7346
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m sure they all assumed she couldn’t possibly a barrister for any other reason than her skin color

    Black people often report being stopped just because they are in a nice car or in a white area. This video is shocking. Wouldn't happen to a white person. The kind of daily harassment they are used to.

    Officer Pulls Gun on Student Picking Up Trash Outside of Dorm Building
    https://youtu.be/Q9SZlypyK-4


  • Options
    #7347
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    20Cent wrote: »
    Black people often report being stopped just because they are in a nice car or in a white area. This video is shocking. Wouldn't happen to a white person. The kind of daily harassment they are used to.

    Officer Pulls Gun on Student Picking Up Trash Outside of Dorm Building
    https://youtu.be/Q9SZlypyK-4

    But 20cent, Joe Biden’s 50cent- how could you know they were all stopped for being black? It’s your burden of proof, etc. /eye roll


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    #7348
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m sure they all assumed she couldn’t possibly a barrister for any other reason than her skin color

    Or maybe because she’s a 25 year old woman?


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    #7349
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Or maybe because she’s a 25 year old woman?

    Probably because she didn’t do the s very handshake. Aaaaany other reason besides the patently obvious


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    #7350
    Frankie Machine
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Frankie Machine


    20Cent wrote: »
    Happens all the time:

    Black barrister mistaken for defendant three times gets apology
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-54281111


    On a side note :)
    Ek3T27mWkAA8zbT?format=jpg&name=900x900

    Taking your username into account, that's a headline we can all relate to.

    :D


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    #7351
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Overheal wrote: »
    Probably because she didn’t do the s very handshake. Aaaaany other reason besides the patently obvious

    What’s the ‘patently obvious’?


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