BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Airyfairy12

If seen an awful lot of comments, articles, social media posts and twitter threads arguing against terms like 'white privilege' and 'all lives matter' but I havnt seen one post, comment, article or twitter feed proclaiming or arguing for either of those terms. I havnt heard or seen anyone use the terms 'White lives matter' or 'All lives matter' as an argument against or along side the Black lives matter movement.
I suspect theyre terms used for click bait and to add fuel to the fire, spread by those looking for attention/clicks/likes, jumping on a bandwagon or uninformed and not bothered to check if 'white privilege' protesters actually exist. Ive no doubt they do to some extent but theyre likely a very small minority and aren't loudly voicing their opinions.

Carfacemandog

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

. I havnt heard or seen anyone use the terms 'White lives matter' or 'All lives matter' as an argument against or along side the Black lives matter movement.

There have been a few threads about this/the George floyd murder/etc here in the last two months. All are littered with them.

Just from this thread alone - https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?thread=2058091617&query=%22all+lives+matter%22+&user=&date_from=&date_to=

Overheal

I havnt seen one post, comment, article or twitter feed proclaiming or arguing for either of those terms. I havnt heard or seen anyone use the terms 'White lives matter' or 'All lives matter' as an argument against or along side the Black lives matter movement.

You'd honestly have to actively not be looking for them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hwq2rw/the_master_race_is_back_at_it_again_white_couple/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://fox6now.com/2020/07/19/young-boy-chants-all-lives-matter-alongside-protesters-in-california/

Airyfairy12

Overheal wrote: »

You'd honestly have to actively not be looking for them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hwq2rw/the_master_race_is_back_at_it_again_white_couple/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://fox6now.com/2020/07/19/young-boy-chants-all-lives-matter-alongside-protesters-in-california/

Majority are American white supremacist, Trump supporters who wont change their mind. What ever the liberals do, they will do the opposite.
Theyre not reading BBLM articles or educating themselves. Arguments against 'wlm' and 'alm' are being read and shared solely by the people who agree with the arguments.

Overheal

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Majority are American white supremacist, Trump supporters who wont change their mind. What ever the liberals do, they will do the opposite.
Theyre not reading BBLM articles or educating themselves. Arguments against 'wlm' and 'alm' are being read and shared solely by the people who agree with the arguments.

....and?

You didn't say non-American, if that's what you meant, and if it is grand. If you're only talking about Irish people who aren't making their own arguments for them, grand. The remark I quoted was extremely broad though.

Carfacemandog

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Majority are American white supremacist, Trump supporters who wont change their mind. What ever the liberals do, they will do the opposite.
Theyre not reading BBLM articles or educating themselves. Arguments against 'wlm' and 'alm' are being read and shared solely by the people who agree with the arguments.

You may have missed it but I have pointed you to multiple instances in this thread alone a few posts up.

Here is the link again - https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?thread=2058091617&query=%22all+lives+matter%22+&user=&date_from=&date_to=

Airyfairy12

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You may have missed it but I have pointed you to multiple instances in this thread alone a few posts up.

Here is the link again - https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?thread=2058091617&query=%22all+lives+matter%22+&user=&date_from=&date_to=

Apologies, I missed your post and I stand corrected, first of seen of white lives matter supporters. It's hard to understand their mindset but I cant see them educating themselves or taking sides with BBLM, theyre racists and wont change their mind, theyre also very unlikely to be reading articles, posts etc from the other side or anything they don't agree with. Posts against Wlm are preaching to the choir.

Carfacemandog

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Apologies, I missed your post and I stand corrected, first of seen of white lives matter supporters. It's hard to understand their mindset but I cant see them educating themselves or taking sides with BBLM, theyre racists and wont change their mind, theyre also very unlikely to be reading articles, posts etc from the other side or anything they don't agree with. Posts against Wlm are preaching to the choir.

No worries at all. I do still think they do still need to be shown up for what they are though, e.g. it's less to do with trying to convince them of anything, and more to do with convincing anyone in the middle to not be duped by them.

An example of this failing was how the "alt right" movement gained a lot of traction and became somewhat fashionable back in 2015 and 2016 by claiming to be "a new way of thinking and conservatism" and all that b*llocks, while if you looked closer at what they were doing and coding (but rarely explicitly saying, at least at leadership level as it's a slow indoctrination process) that they were just neo nazis trying to rebrand themselves. Thankfully that fell off quickly when they got too confident and removed their masks too early with the Charlottesville nazi marches, but it had still suckered a lot of people in.

There are a lot of similarities here, right down to White Lives Matter being coined by a literal neo Nazi just like 'alt right' was before it - https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/white-lives-matter

Pa ElGrande

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg

When Wokes and Racists actually agree on everything.

BloodBath

Haha that's brilliant. Show's the woke crowd up for the hypocritical racists they are.

Tell me how

BloodBath wrote: »

Haha that's brilliant. Show's the woke crowd up for the hypocritical racists they are.

Except, what you have there is someone on the extreme side of being 'Woke', and someone who is a casual racist.

So, the worst of one side is equal to someone who has crossed the line a bit.

What about the hard core right wingers? Where are they in the video?
Or the left of centre liberals?

Overheal

This past week, people upset about kneeling, including the President, tried to attack major league baseball for kneelers. Many alleged sports fans pledged to boycott.

Turns out, ESPN enjoyed its highest MLB viewership ratings in 9 years on opening day: https://www.mediaite.com/sports/espn-sees-best-mlb-game-ratings-in-9-years-as-both-teams-kneel-in-support-of-black-lives-matter-on-opening-day/

Tell me how

Overheal wrote: »

This past week, people upset about kneeling, including the President, tried to attack major league baseball for kneelers. Many alleged sports fans pledged to boycott.

Turns out, ESPN enjoyed its highest MLB viewership ratings in 9 years on opening day: https://www.mediaite.com/sports/espn-sees-best-mlb-game-ratings-in-9-years-as-both-teams-kneel-in-support-of-black-lives-matter-on-opening-day/

To be fair, there's no one watching in the bleachers so television figures will definitely be up.

Did see the MLB logo at the pitcher mound in one stadium changed to BLM which was fairly indicative of their views on the whole thing.

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

To be fair, there's no one watching in the bleachers so television figures will definitely be up.

Did see the MLB logo at the pitcher mound in one stadium changed to BLM which was fairly indicative of their views on the whole thing.

Seats 41,339 - compare that to the viewership of 4 million (it's 1.03% of it, if you fill the seats)

BloodBath

Tell me how wrote: »

Except, what you have there is someone on the extreme side of being 'Woke', and someone who is a casual racist.

So, the worst of one side is equal to someone who has crossed the line a bit.

What about the hard core right wingers? Where are they in the video?
Or the left of centre liberals?

I don't see anyone in large numbers supporting the far right though. I do see large numbers supporting the far left for whatever woke points they think they are scoring.

It's an authoritarian left that's emerging. Pretty far from liberal.

Mic 1972

The best way to avoid the police is staying out of crime, it can't be that difficult

Carfacemandog

BloodBath wrote: »

I don't see anyone in large numbers supporting the far right though. I do see large numbers supporting the far left for whatever woke points they think they are scoring.

It's an authoritarian left that's emerging. Pretty far from liberal.

What would you define as 'far right' and 'far left'?

It's more than fair to say that the trump administration has slipped into far right politics, with outed white supremacists as advisors to the white house, the unconstitutional use of secret and unmarked police, the calls for armed uprisings, the gassing of peaceful protesters including the clergy and the the 'wall of moms', the policy of taking children from their parents and putting them into concentration camps, open racism being flaunted all the way up to the president himself (kung flu, calling Mexicans rapists and murderers, telling American born elected representatives to "go home" to their own countries to give just 3 examples), the defunding of law enforcement activities concerning investigations of far right terrorist groups, the attempted (and semi successful) banning of people based on their religions, and the support of attendees of neo nazis organised rallies, and his supportive retweeting of his followers shouting 'white power'.

These are all positions and actions of the Trump administration, and yet they hold 40% support in a nation of 328 million. That translates to about 120 million Americans.

If you do not consider these to be far right, what do you? And what do you consider to be far left?

Mic 1972

Carfacemandog wrote: »

What would you define as 'far right' and 'far left'?

It's more than fair to say that the trump administration has slipped into far right politics, with outed white supremacists as advisors to the white house, the unconstitutional use of secret and unmarked police, the calls for armed uprisings, the gassing of peaceful protesters including the clergy and the the 'wall of moms', the policy of taking children from their parents and putting them into concentration camps, open racism being flaunted all the way up to the president himself (kung flu, calling Mexicans rapists and murderers, telling American born elected representatives to "go home" to their own countries to give just 3 examples), the defunding of law enforcement activities concerning investigations of far right terrorist groups, the attempted (and semi successful) banning of people based on their religions, and the support of attendees of neo nazis organised rallies, and his supportive retweeting of his followers shouting 'white power'.

These are all positions and actions of the Trump administration, and yet they hold 40% support in a nation of 328 million. That translates to about 120 million Americans.

If you do not consider these to be far right, what do you? And what do you consider to be far left?

I stopped reading at "peaceful protesters"

Overheal

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I stopped reading at "peaceful protesters"

Because there hasn’t been gassing of peaceful protesters? There has.

There being rioters and there being nonviolent peaceful protesters existing at the same time are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of evidence to date showing examples of teargas and less-lethal munitions fires at protesters who were not engaged in riot or violence.

Carfacemandog

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I stopped reading at "peaceful protesters"

What were the people who were gassed outside the church - clergy included - that Trumps administration had gassed for a photo op, doing that was not peaceful then?

Or did you stop reading because the truth of the matter is inconvenient to you and you'd rather shove your proverbial fingers in your ears and scream 'I can't hear you!'?

Overheal

A minority of rioters commits violence and to some people that makes millions upon millions of people who have marched since george Floyd looters and rioters and scum

ExMachina1000

Overheal wrote: »

A minority of rioters commits violence and to some people that makes millions upon millions of people who have marched since george Floyd looters and rioters and scum

George floyd is yesterday's news. People dont care. Many possibly even most didn't care in the first place

Overheal

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

George floyd is vfx yesterday's news. People dont care. Many possibly even most didn't care in the first place

Mountains of evidence to the contrary.

ExMachina1000

Overheal wrote: »

Mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Not really

Pa ElGrande

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The best way to avoid the police is staying out of crime, it can't be that difficult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

Personal agency will mostly keep you out of trouble . . . if you have learned that growing up, otherwise make sure you have deep pockets for expensive lawyers to buy your way out of trouble.


This is a problem replicated across many countries welfare state models, people growing up mostly learn by example, the state subsidises an unstable family structure, the men don't hang around to keep their children in line leading boys to join up with gangs and all hell breaks lose within their communities and they continue to repeat the cycle. Distributed responsibility between parents for the upbringing of their children would go along way to solving that problem.

BloodBath

Not gonna get caught up in a Trump debate. Sick of hearing about the clown. I hope he loses the election so I don't have to hear from the the Trump derangement syndrome people anymore. Trump's a narcissistic idiot no doubt but the country being fairly right wing has always been the case, even when the dems win. Trumps just tapping into that base.

Interesting choice of words though. You're trying your best to conflate Trump with Hitler. I'm not gonna defend the guy either. He's definitely contributing to the problem but it's not going to magically disappear when he gets ousted.

The US has far bigger problems that go beyond the president. At least the next president might say the right things even if he doesn't do them. Like Obama.

Tell me how

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

This is a problem replicated across many countries welfare state models, people growing up mostly learn by example, the state subsidises an unstable family structure, the men don't hang around to keep their children in line leading boys to join up with gangs and all hell breaks lose within their communities and they continue to repeat the cycle. Distributed responsibility between parents for the upbringing of their children would go along way to solving that problem.

Yeah, can totally see how parenting played a part in how this went down.

And this one.

Definitely a problem with morals and dignity evident in these videos alright. Thanks, Pa Elgrande, think you have cracked it. What do we do now?

Carfacemandog

BloodBath wrote: »

Not gonna get caught up in a Trump debate. Sick of hearing about the clown. I hope he loses the election so I don't have to hear from the the Trump derangement syndrome people anymore. Trump's a narcissistic idiot no doubt but the country being fairly right wing has always been the case, even when the dems win. Trumps just tapping into that base.

Interesting choice of words though. You're trying your best to conflate Trump with Hitler. I'm not gonna defend the guy either. He's definitely contributing to the problem but it's not going to magically disappear when he gets ousted.

The US has far bigger problems that go beyond the president. At least the next president might say the right things even if he doesn't do them. Like Obama.

I'm not asking your opinion on Trump, I was pointing out that large numbers of people do support the far right. Though it's interesting that you read through the things Trump has done and immediately thought of Hitler.

I am asking what you would consider far left, and what you would consider far right based on your earlier post.

1800_Ladladlad

Antifa militant and convicted pedophile David Blake Hampe was arrested in the early hours of Saturday following his alleged stabbing of a black Trump supporter in Portland.


img

https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-militant-arrested-for-stabbing-black-trump-supporter-in-portland

Pa ElGrande

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah, can totally see how parenting played a part in how this went down.

What do we do now?

I'll raise you another video then. (warning this is violence toward a female police officer.)


There are too many men getting into conflict with the police and most of the solution to the problem can be found in good parenting practice.

Senator Tim Scott (R-SC) recently underscored this point. Citing Sowell, he said that “If you have two parents in the household, you reduce poverty in the African-American community by 85%. That’s a stunning truth that needs more oxygen.” (Wall Street Journal, June 20-21, 2020).

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The videos you show don't negate my point, they just illustrate the problems caused by a US supreme count decision that gives qualified immunity to government officials that police officers and prosecutors abuse. There are opinions in the United States that their supreme court overstepped their authority on the basis there is nothing in their vonstitution that grants any immunity to government officials against their people.

Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800 (1982) the Supreme Court held:

Government officials whose special functions or constitutional status requires complete protection from suits for damages — including certain officials of the Executive Branch, such as prosecutors and similar officials, see Butz v. Economou, 438 U. S. 478, and the President, Nixon v. Fitzgerald, ante p. 457 U. S. 731 — are entitled to the defense of absolute immunity. However, executive officials in general are usually entitled to only qualified or good faith immunity. The recognition of a qualified immunity defense for high executives reflects an attempt to balance competing values: not only the importance of a damages remedy to protect the rights of citizens, but also the need to protect officials who are required to exercise discretion and the related public interest in encouraging the vigorous exercise of official authority. Scheuer v. Rhodes, 416 U. S. 232. Federal officials seeking absolute immunity from personal liability for unconstitutional conduct must bear the burden of showing that public policy requires an exemption of that scope. Pp. 457 U. S. 806-808.

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