BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Covid figures early in the Pandemic indicated that Black People were being disproportionately impacted. Should that not become something which receives attention to determine why this was the case.

It won't be though.. at least not honestly and in an unbiased way.. because that would mean acknowledging the weaknesses/negatives/attitudes that exist within African American culture. The different in rates of infection simply come down to behavior and what people are willing to do to protect themselves and others.

If American Americans are being affected more by covid, it's probably due to their unwillingness to take sensible precautions and to limit social interactions with others.

Any reason given will be about the oppression they experience, rather than accepting any measure of responsibility for the state of their lives. We've seen similar investigations before, which simply reinforce the stereotype of being marginalised and oppressed, with anything that suggests different being dismissed as being racist.

Cordell

Tell me how wrote: »

Really? Have you come late to this whole conversation? Or haven't been listening to the full argument maybe.

No, I was watching it for a while, in disbelief on how the blm/antifa thugs are being, for lack of a better word, whitewashed.

Tell me how wrote: »

The latter half of your statement suggests that money is not an issue, if it weren't then there wouldn't have been a need to defund other public services to fund police, would there?

I'd say, in the spirit of the american liberty and personal responsibility, to let those that provide the funds to have the most weight on the decision. Maybe the law abiding tax paying citizens that fund the police will prefer to keep thigs as they are instead of sacrificing their safety for the potential well being of others.

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It won't be though.. at least not honestly and in an unbiased way.. because that would mean acknowledging the weaknesses/negatives/attitudes that exist within African American culture. The different in rates of infection simply come down to behavior and what people are willing to do to protect themselves and others.

If American Americans are being affected more by covid, it's probably due to their unwillingness to take sensible precautions and to limit social interactions with others.

Any reason given will be about the oppression they experience, rather than accepting any measure of responsibility for the state of their lives. We've seen similar investigations before, which simply reinforce the stereotype of being marginalised and oppressed, with anything that suggests different being dismissed as being racist.

Ridiculous and privileged opinion!

It's obvious that POC are disproportionately affected as they generally work essential roles which required them to go out during the pandemic. They can't work from home. Additionally they also live in smaller city centre apartments in much higher numbers so physical distancing is all but impossible. They also don't have access to the same levels of medical care as whyte folk, and are far more likely to have co-morbidities.

POC being disproportionately affected by covid is just another indicator of a rotten system that is stacked against them.

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

Ridiculous and privileged opinion!

Biased, hypocritical, and superficial opinion. Yours that is. Absolutely dripping in superimposed victimhood.

There was no suggestion of privilege in my post. Until you decided to insert it.

Deleted post. No point feeding a troll, and getting set up for a ban.

kildare lad

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

Ridiculous and privileged opinion!

It's obvious that POC are disproportionately affected as they generally work essential roles which required them to go out during the pandemic. They can't work from home. Additionally they also live in smaller city centre apartments in much higher numbers so physical distancing is all but impossible. They also don't have access to the same levels of medical care as whyte folk, and are far more likely to have co-morbidities.

POC being disproportionately affected by covid is just another indicator of a rotten system that is stacked against them.

POC is that Paul o Connell you're talking about??

BattleCorp

kildare lad wrote: »

POC is that Paul o Connell you're talking about??

You'd be as well not feeding it to be honest. No sense to be gotten there.

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_

kildare lad wrote: »

POC is that Paul o Connell you're talking about??

You know well that it's shorthand for people of colour.

stefanovich

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

You know well that it's shorthand for people of colour.

Who doesn't fit into that category?

ExMachina1000

stefanovich wrote: »

Who doesn't fit into that category?

People with albinism?

randd1

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

You know well that it's shorthand for people of colour.

Seeing as white is a colour, would that phrase not just mean 'people'?

stefanovich

randd1 wrote: »

Seeing as white is a colour, would that phrase not just mean 'people'?

As my Indian friend reminded me, we are not white, we are pink.

Blonde and red hair, blue and green eyes. Quite colourful.

1800_Ladladlad

stefanovich wrote: »

As my Indian friend reminded me, we are not white, we are pink.

Blonde and red hair, blue and green eyes. Quite colourful.

eh cancel your mate. I identify as salmon.

conorhal

Cordell wrote: »

That's quite the mental gymnastics
If that were to be true, then why not ask directly for more funds for more social services? That will be the sane thing to do, right? Before redirecting funds from the police to the social services you first need to make sure those funds are not needed anymore, and that can only happen after the better social services have worked their magic.

It's mental gymnastics on the part of the utopian idealists, on the part of government departments though, its slight of hand, which is why dumb notions like 'defund the police’ manage get actual traction with real politicians. They see it as an opportunity to offload a problem.
You see this kind of stealth cutting of expensive services all the time. The asylums were 'cruel' so they had to be closed in favour of 'care in the community', which clearly so sounds much nicer!
The problem with such nice ideas is that the money and time to implement these nice ideas never, ever gets put in place first.
The asylums were always going to close and their inhabitants were always going to get dumped on the streets, just at the direct provision centres will close and asylum seekers will be dumped into an over stretched rental market (with inevitable consequences).
This is what always happens, the problem never goes away, it just ceases to be the government's expensive problem anymore and the incompetent, half assed and underfunded solution they have put in place and handed off to a load of quangos to manage, ceases to be their problem.

I for one hope Portland, Seattle and New York go full ‘defund the police’ so that I can grab my popcorn and laugh when the people that demanded it have to live with the obvious and inevitable consequences, which can be seen a mile away by all but those with their heads in the sky or their heads up their arse.

MisterAnarchy

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

There shouldn't be any politics in sport and certainly no American politics in European sports.

Not one Irish or Wales rugby player took the knee on Sunday, which was great to see.

whysobecause

Tell me how wrote: »

Two things to consider about the message in these tweets.

https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/status/1358917997906169858

A - 1 in 4 fatalities by police are people with mental illness. A shocking way to treat people who are suffering.
B - There is a better outcome for society when the people have access to the appropriate services.

This is what people who were calling for the better use of funds which ordinarily have been going in to police funding wanted to happen.

Would it help, if the mental ill have something written on their forehead, to distinguish them from the sane Americans.
Then everyone would know to get a social worker, instead of the police.

whysobecause

Tell me how wrote: »

Two things to consider about the message in these tweets.

https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/status/1358917997906169858

A - 1 in 4 fatalities by police are people with mental illness. A shocking way to treat people who are suffering.
B - There is a better outcome for society when the people have access to the appropriate services.

This is what people who were calling for the better use of funds which ordinarily have been going in to police funding wanted to happen.

Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

Ridiculous and privileged opinion!

It's obvious that POC are disproportionately affected as they generally work essential roles which required them to go out during the pandemic. They can't work from home. Additionally they also live in smaller city centre apartments in much higher numbers so physical distancing is all but impossible. They also don't have access to the same levels of medical care as whyte folk, and are far more likely to have co-morbidities.

POC being disproportionately affected by covid is just another indicator of a rotten system that is stacked against them.

This has to be a joke.

whysobecause

whysobecause wrote: »

This has to be a joke.

"ven before COVID-19, the prevalence of mental illness among adults was increasing. In 2017-2018, 19% of adults experienced a mental illness, an increase of 1.5 million people over last year’s dataset."

I could post more, but basically, a crapton of people in the US could be considered mentally ill for one reason or another.

TBH I suspect it's a drive by the drug companies, and psychology industry to further their grasp on American society. Makes good PR to have mental health specialists 'helping' the police, although if things go pear shaped, it'll remain the fault of the police.

Wibbs

whysobecause wrote: »

This has to be a joke.

Other than the "whyte" ballsology there is much in the position. The poor are more likely to suffer from disease and infection for many reasons. Doubly so in the US with its insane cost of medical access. Black Americans are more likely to be poor, therefore are more likely to suffer in a pandemic.

Where it gets more interesting/worrying is when you look at medical workers in the UK, people who are all of the same basic economic background, some demographics appear to be more prone to worse illness and mortality than others. IE even allowing for comorbidities and age it seems a Caribbean or Indian doctor is more likely to fall gravely ill or die from Covid than a White native English doctor or nurse.

stefanovich

Wibbs wrote: »

Other than the "whyte" ballsology there is much in the position. The poor are more likely to suffer from disease and infection for many reasons. Doubly so in the US with its insane cost of medical access. Black Americans are more likely to be poor, therefore are more likely to suffer in a pandemic.

Where it gets more interesting/worrying is when you look at medical workers in the UK, people who are all of the same basic economic background, some demographics appear to be more prone to worse illness and mortality than others. IE even allowing for comorbidities and age it seems a Caribbean or Indian doctor is more likely to fall gravely ill or die from Covid than a White native English doctor or nurse.

Just mentioned this in another thread but could it be down to dark skinned people being more vitamin D deficient?

Mic 1972

stefanovich wrote: »

Just mentioned this in another thread but could it be down to dark skinned people being more vitamin D deficient?

That's my opinion too.
It was interesting to see the Covid mortality rate dropping so fast in Italy last year during the Summer

Wibbs

stefanovich wrote: »

Just mentioned this in another thread but could it be down to dark skinned people being more vitamin D deficient?

Could very well be considering the role that vitamin seems to play in this dose and overall health. I remember reading a study into African Americans that showed higher incidences of some illnesses and conditions among those folks who lived in the northern American states compared to those living in the southern, even though the latter were on average poorer. Makes sense. The differences in native skin colours depending on latitudes shows there was very strong selection pressures to lighten skin in less sunny climes, which increased after the agricultural revolution as our dietary intake of D dropped way down*.




*You see this with native Tasmanians. A very dark people, yet they lived in quite high latitudes and didn't go paler. They were exclusively hunter gatherers so had plenty of vitamin D in the diet.

Chris_Heilong

I still dislike the title of this thread as during the life of the thread I dont think anyone was arguing WLM, It should have been BLM vs All lives matter, then it morphed into BLM being a Marxist movement, discussion of violence riots also know as peaceful protests by some with lots of what aboutsims, Now we have moved onto is Covid affecting non-white people more than whites.

biko

I agree, it has morphed away from the initial BLM protests/riots into something else.
However, BLM is still around doing their thing so thread will probably be updated with news soon.

For instance you can now buy BLM coffee.

biko

BLM in Japan didn't take off at all..

MisterAnarchy

biko wrote: »

BLM in Japan didn't take off at all..

As Japan is a shame culture, I'd imagine that they can see BLM for what it really is.

It's hardly surprising. Most foreigners are there on sufferance. Tolerated rather than welcomed. When a group stands up, shouting "look at me! Respect me! Gimme privileges", the Japanese are going to consider that group to be morons. Especially considering the general Asian attitude towards Black people. Can't imagine it going down well, and can actually think of it causing a lot of problems for people living there.

Every expat who has lived in Japan (or many other Asian countries) should know that there's no equality to be had. It's the price you pay for living there.

fantaiscool

Deleted User wrote: »

It's hardly surprising. Most foreigners are there on sufferance. Tolerated rather than welcomed. When a group stands up, shouting "look at me! Respect me! Gimme privileges", the Japanese are going to consider that group to be morons. Especially considering the general Asian attitude towards Black people. Can't imagine it going down well, and can actually think of it causing a lot of problems for people living there.

Every expat who has lived in Japan (or many other Asian countries) should know that there's no equality to be had. It's the price you pay for living there.

My own experience is quite different. I have lived in Tokyo and had a much better time of it in many ways than in Dublin. Women certainly were easier to come by, very much so. I was spoiled for choice. The native men did seem to resent that. If you're white I would say it's a good place for meeting women.

fantaiscool

fantaiscool wrote: »

My own experience is quite different. I have lived in Tokyo and had a much better time of it in many ways than in Dublin. Women certainly were easier to come by, very much so. I was spoiled for choice. The native men did seem to resent that. If you're white I would say it's a good place for meeting women.

The experiences you describe aren't the same as what I talked about previously. Yes, Japan is a great pickup spot. Hell, most of Asia is. Doesn't mean that they respect you beyond the more superficial of expressions.

I spent time in Tokyo and Kyoto both for work and travel. Not living there beyond a few months though, although I've done it three times at this stage. Fantastic country.

The point is more about culture and the official reception of other racial groups, rather than what individuals think/say. And the truth about Asians, is that you rarely truly know what they're thinking, especially in Japan, which has a wall of politeness for them to hide behind.

Take my students (in China) who are mostly Chinese. They'll talk openly with me, be expressive about western ideas, and hope that someday China will be enlightened, (like they naively assume the West is).. but ten minutes later, they'll be reciting Mao, passionately arguing that Taiwan is part of China, and no foreigner can ever understand the Chinese mindset. Now, China has a very different culture than Japan, but there are similarities, once tradition and social conformity kick in.

Think of it another way. You've spent time in Japan. Ever notice how much effort they spend to express how truly Japanese they are? From a ethnic pov. There's been so much intermixing with other Asian racial groups (war brides and concubines) such as Filipino, and Koreans, that many Japanese are assumed to be less pure. As such, many Japanese will compete with each other over ethnicity.

Which feeds back into their perception towards foreigners. White people are treated to a degree of respect but Black people gain the association with Africa, which is a complete failure in the eyes of many Japanese. Not everyone.. but it's a common enough perspective from conversations I've had with Japanese students, and lecturers/professors.

Sweetemotion

Giggity

kildare lad

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Giggity

500 murders, 2000 shot in a city the size of Dublin. Yet BLM want to get rid of the cops . You couldn't make it up


https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-gun-violence-homicides-shootings-pandemic-2020-20210101.html

For just the second time in its history, Philadelphia’s annual homicide total threatened in 2020 to reach 500, another grim marker in a year where the city has been racked by the coronavirus pandemic, economic strife, and social unrest of racial inequity.

The number of people killed last year — 499 as of late Thursday — is 40% higher than in 2019, and more than in all of 2013 and 2014 combined. The only time more people were slain in the city was in 1990, when police reported 500 homicides as violence surged alongside an intensifying crack-cocaine epidemic.

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The spike in shootings was even more pronounced. More than 2,240 people were shot since Jan. 1, 40% more than police have ever recorded. Those statistics date back only to 2007, when the Police Department began keeping track of shooting victims separately from the broader category of assaults involving a gun.

As in most years, the vast majority of victims were young, Black men — many from impoverished neighborhoods lacking resources and long afflicted by gun violence. But shots also killed and wounded children playing on the street. A pregnant woman was struck by a stray bullet — forcing the early delivery of her baby. Some gunmen fired indiscriminately into block parties. A witness was shot dead near City Hall in what police believe was a targeted hit for his testimony in a murder trial