BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

theraj2020 wrote: »

The undermining of the police force in a number of these US cities from both protestors and the Local Government will surely result in a return to the bad old days of the 80s with crime out of control and CBDs becoming unsafe in some of these major US cities; Will we see history repeat itself and a return to "white flight" or capital flight from a number of these US cities worst effected to the suburbs or other US cities.

This could result in black communities becoming even more disadvantaged as businesses and commerce flee for stability; would be interested to know others opinions on what the end game and repercussions will be once all these protests abate.

That is one possible outcome of this.

Another is that city mayors and police chiefs take a few steps back and have a think about just what is the role of the police and who is it they actually work for and should they be a single autonomous entity within the community or part of a cohesive grouping of professionals including those from education, social, healthcare backgrounds who decide as a whole that a policy of putting a stronger focus on supporting people in education and with a personal touch might ultimately be better for all involved than waiting until people actually are criminals or are suspected as being such and then engaging with them from behind the barrel of a gun.

theraj2020

I believe the crime wave/public disorder sweeping a number of US cities will take a couple of months to manifest itself, added to the corona pandemic is a recipe for the perfect storm. A lot of these people protesting have absolutely no respect for law and order, especially the younger generation and ultimately will be the ones to suffer.

The undermining of the police force by the likes of the mayors of Chicago and New York in my view will lead to a flight of capital and regress these cities massively.

Tell me how

theraj2020 wrote: »

I believe the crime wave/public disorder sweeping a number of US cities will take a couple of months to manifest itself, added to the corona pandemic is a recipe for the perfect storm. A lot of these people protesting have absolutely no respect for law and order, especially the younger generation and ultimately will be the ones to suffer.

The undermining of the police force by the likes of the mayors of Chicago and New York in my view will lead to a flight of capital and regress these cities massively.

Do you want to put a percentage and approximate numbers (with some sort of supporting evidence) of those who are protesting who you are referring to here.

ELM327

Tell me how wrote: »

Evidence please.

For one, they are the Burning. Looting. Mob. So that's the terrorist part covered. Despite the fake news brigade telling you they are "non violent".


The anti white sentiment is pretty clear for all to see, not from all segments of the group, (same as there can be bad cops, there can be well intentioned members of BLM).


I never owned a slave, you were never a slave, therefore I do not owe you anything. I will not apologize for being born white, the same as I do not expect you to apologize for your skin color. All Lives Matter.

ELM327

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you want to put a percentage and approximate numbers (with some sort of supporting evidence) of those who are protesting who you are referring to here.

This is a great piece (from a source I would normally not use for bog roll let alone news)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/08/24/i-was-a-civil-rights-activist-in-the-1960s-but-its-hard-for-me-to-get-behind-black-lives-matter/

theraj2020

Go on social media, everyday little ****s baiting and aggravating the police who have absolutely no respect for authority....i honestly dont know how the police manage to keep their restraint and composure; its an impossible job.

What is the protestors end game or how long do they continue? Who in their right mind would want to join law enforcement....their own state governments and city mayors are undermining them.

As stated my predictions are cities like New York and Chicago will suffer....crime will sky rocket; gentrification of inner cities will be reversed, capital will go to the suburbs or other cities...back to the 1980s

Tell me how

ELM327 wrote: »

For one, they are the Burning. Looting. Mob. So that's the terrorist part covered. Despite the fake news brigade telling you they are "non violent".


The anti white sentiment is pretty clear for all to see, not from all segments of the group, (same as there can be bad cops, there can be well intentioned members of BLM).


I never owned a slave, you were never a slave, therefore I do not owe you anything. I will not apologize for being born white, the same as I do not expect you to apologize for your skin color. All Lives Matter.

As a percentage, I guesstimate that less than 1% of all protests have exhibited any form of violence. Based on what evidence you might say. Just the total number of incidents we have seen versus the numbers of protests happening. In my city, there are protests ongoing with zero violence but as a consequence, they aren't broadcast widely on the news and so people presume they are not happening. (Question is something still fake news if I am observing it happening with my own eyes in real life?)

So, if that is the case, and feel free to counter with your own percentage value of total protests, is it fair to call BLM a terrorist organisation? If so, they are doing a pretty poor job at it given how few events are becoming violent.

Not withstanding the above, your final sentence is more of the BS which those against the protests are using. Where was the use of the All Lives Matter phrase when minorities were being mistreated with impunity. You, and others who are using it are showing yourselves to be very hypocritical that you are only concerned about All Lives when you have a perception that some are saying that Black Lives are more important than White. That is not the case.

Overheal

ELM327 wrote: »

This is a great piece (from a source I would normally not use for bog roll let alone news)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/08/24/i-was-a-civil-rights-activist-in-the-1960s-but-its-hard-for-me-to-get-behind-black-lives-matter/

Didn’t you just slap down this sort out of hand as “FAKE NEWS” just the other day?

But yay an opinion piece well done.

Tell me how

theraj2020 wrote: »

Go on social media, everyday little ****s baiting and aggravating the police who have absolutely no respect for authority....i honestly dont know how the police manage to keep their restraint and composure; its an impossible job.

What is the protestors end game or how long do they continue? Who in their right mind would want to join law enforcement....their own state governments and city mayors are undermining them.

As stated my predictions are cities like New York and Chicago will suffer....crime will sky rocket; gentrification of inner cities will be reversed, capital will go to the suburbs or other cities...back to the 1980s

That's just a repeat of your point from yesterday.

Can you provide evidence that 'A lot of these people protesting have absolutely no respect for law and order' because, in my view, of the protests I have seen, 100% of those attending were respectful of law and order.

ELM327

Tell me how wrote: »

As a percentage, I guesstimate that less than 1% of all protests have exhibited any form of violence. Based on what evidence you might say. Just the total number of incidents we have seen versus the numbers of protests happening. In my city, there are protests ongoing with zero violence but as a consequence, they aren't broadcast widely on the news and so people presume they are not happening. (Question is something still fake news if I am observing it happening with my own eyes in real life?)

So, if that is the case, and feel free to counter with your own percentage value of total protests, is it fair to call BLM a terrorist organisation? If so, they are doing a pretty poor job at it given how few events are becoming violent.

Not withstanding the above, your final sentence is more of the BS which those against the protests are using. Where was the use of the All Lives Matter phrase when minorities were being mistreated with impunity. You, and others who are using it are showing yourselves to be very hypocritical that you are only concerned about All Lives when you have a perception that some are saying that Black Lives are more important than White. That is not the case.

I'm glad you are not experiencing the extreme violence from the terrorist thugs that other cities are.
I spoke to my friend who lives in San Fran working in the bay area. His uncle owns a shop in one of the areas that have been cordoned off by the terrorists as police no go areas. He was saying that during the day it's fine and peaceful - beyond open drinking and drug use - but at night its violent and dangerous.



Some of the areas are allegedly black only.

Overheal wrote: »

Didn’t you just slap down this sort out of hand as “FAKE NEWS” just the other day?

But yay an opinion piece well done.

The outlet - washington post - is one I wouldnt usually read as it is prone to fake news. But it's not just "an opinion piece", it's an opinion piece from a black person involved in the equality marches a few decades ago. They are more entitled to a view on this than anyone on an Irish board IMO.

Overheal

Right so as it’s an opinion you like suddenly the rag you wouldn’t wipe your ass with has worth :rolleyes: as you just said a post prior to this.

Tell me how

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm glad you are not experiencing the extreme violence from the terrorist thugs that other cities are.
I spoke to my friend who lives in San Fran working in the bay area. His uncle owns a shop in one of the areas that have been cordoned off by the terrorists as police no go areas. He was saying that during the day it's fine and peaceful - beyond open drinking and drug use - but at night its violent and dangerous.



Some of the areas are allegedly black only.

Aside from the anecdotal word of your friend, can you provide any evidence that this is actually happening. I've done a google search, Twitter and a news search and have found no reports of areas of SF being off limits.

And before you talk about 'Fake News Media' and so on, I didn't find articles from conservative outlets that indicate anything like this is going on.

Dyr

theraj2020 wrote: »

I believe the crime wave/public disorder sweeping a number of US cities will take a couple of months to manifest itself, added to the corona pandemic is a recipe for the perfect storm. A lot of these people protesting have absolutely no respect for law and order, especially the younger generation and ultimately will be the ones to suffer.

The undermining of the police force by the likes of the mayors of Chicago and New York in my view will lead to a flight of capital and regress these cities massively.

Already happening in New York, before Covid and before BLM. Going back to the bad old days of the 70s and 80s fast.

Overheal

Bambi wrote: »

Already happening in New York, before Covid and before BLM. Going back to the bad old days of the 70s and 80s fast.

Making America great again

Slowyourrole

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Fabricated story?

Caving to the PC brigade does not mean the protesters were in the right:(, All this is going to do is give those crazy protesters a free pass to do what ever they want. The couple should not get charged at all, they have a right to protect themselves and their property, what would you do if so many people broke into your gated community and the great thing is it had an effect, the protesters left and headed to their original destination which was the Mayors home.

Just to remind you, you claimed the protesters were there "because they passed it and thought it looked like a nice house they wanted to destroy". Are you still claiming that or do you accept they were walking past the house on the way to protest outside the Mayor's house?

circadian

Some of the mental gymnastics in here are 10 pointers.

Chris_Heilong

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Just to remind you, you claimed the protesters were there "because they passed it and thought it looked like a nice house they wanted to destroy". Are you still claiming that or do you accept they were walking past the house on the way to protest outside the Mayor's house?

This again:rolleyes:, I thought I had already proved the naysayers wrong, go check the map I posted before, They have no reason to trespass into private property and did not keep walking by as you say, proof is when the couple confronted them they left back through the gate.

ELM327

Tell me how wrote: »

Aside from the anecdotal word of your friend, can you provide any evidence that this is actually happening. I've done a google search, Twitter and a news search and have found no reports of areas of SF being off limits.

And before you talk about 'Fake News Media' and so on, I didn't find articles from conservative outlets that indicate anything like this is going on.

There's a similar story on the Nbc nightly news from 27th July. It's on youtube.


EDIT: 13.48 into this clip

Overheal

ELM327 wrote: »

There's a similar story on the Nbc nightly news from 27th July. It's on youtube.


EDIT: 13.48 into this clip

Nothing in the clip as you suggest that mentioned San Francisco or any ‘police no-go zone’

Tell me how

ELM327 wrote: »

There's a similar story on the Nbc nightly news from 27th July. It's on youtube.

So, would you admit that it is likely that your friend is lying given that none of us can find any evidence that what he says, is true?

Foxtrol

Bambi wrote: »

Already happening in New York, before Covid and before BLM. Going back to the bad old days of the 70s and 80s fast.

NY major crime offenses in 2019 were at historically low levels but please continue to talk nonsense and hide under your bed.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/historical-crime-data/seven-major-felony-offenses-2000-2019.pdf

Foxtrol

Tell me how wrote: »

So, would you admit that it is likely that your friend is lying given that none of us can find any evidence that what he says, is true?

To be fair in the Bay area for decades, prior to legalization, you couldn't walk anywhere without seeing (or more likely smelling) drug use.

Seems like this is another case of people buying into scaremongering.

theraj2020

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

July 6, 2020

For the month of June 2020, the number of people victimized by gun violence and murder in New York City spiked significantly, when compared to the same period in 2019. Between June 1 and June 30, there was a 130% increase in the number of shooting incidents across the city (205 v. 89) as the number of shootings rose in every borough of New York. The number of people murdered citywide increased to 39 v. 30, (+ 30%) for the month, while the number of burglaries increased to 1,783 v. 817 (+118%) and the number of auto thefts increased to 696 v. 462 (+51%) citywide.

While the NYPD has made approximately 40,000 fewer overall arrests so far this year compared with last year, gun arrests year-to-date as of July 5 are 1,679 vs. 1,683. We have also seen the impacts of legislative mandates sending offenders no longer eligible for bail back to the streets where they are being regularly rearrested and contributing to overall crime in the city.

Every day our officers are taking innovative actions to meet the challenges of policing in a during the COVID-19 pandemic. They respond in real-time to crime spikes by gathering timely intelligence, analyzing crime trends and disseminating preventative measures to ensure safety for all.

“The sharp increase in shootings and violence in New York puts innocent people at risk and tears at the fabric of life in our city,” said NYPD Police Commissioner Dermot Shea. “The challenges are great for an NYPD facing the strain of deep budget cuts, changes to the criminal justice system that are impacting the courts and the continuing international health pandemic. But through it all, I have seen our hardworking men and women display an unwavering commitment to the kind of fair and effective policing that defines our agency and that New Yorkers expect and deserve.”

Increase in Shootings: New York City has seen an increase in gunfire in the last month – measured in the number of separate shooting incidents occurring across the city, and, more concerning, in the number of victims injured and killed. Every injury from a bullet can be a millimeter away from being a death. For the first weeks of June, the number of shootings in the city more than doubled compared to the same period a year ago. Through June 30, overall shootings citywide rose to 205 – with 270 victims. Currently, the number of parolees involved in shooting incidents or murders is at a 15-year high. Meanwhile, from January through the end of June, more than 2,000 people arrested in a crime with a gun recovered had cases against them that remain open in the courts.

Ongoing Challenges: The NYPD is enduring a round of deep budget cuts that have led to a class of 1,163 recruits being canceled. The department has also seen an increase in retirements. The NYPD’s facilitation of peaceful protest continues to utilize department resources. While the NYPD uses a lighter touch in regard to enforcement, offenders no longer eligible for bail are being rearrested: they have been rearrested for approximately 750 additional major felonies through June 26, compared with the population of those released in the same period a year ago.

Last month, Commissioner Shea announced a series of personnel changes to positon the department for the 21st Century policing by continuing to strengthen the bonds between officers and residents. He promoted Jeffrey B. Maddrey, the longtime chief of the NYPD’s Patrol Borough Brooklyn North, to the position of Chief of Community Affairs, at a moment of historic importance in the relationship between the police and the public. Other appointments the commissioner made will allow seasoned NYPD leaders to see the city and the residents we serve through these challenging times.

Key highlights from this month's crime statistics:

Murder is up +23.1% (181 v. 147) for the first six months of 2020 when compared to the first six months of 2019.There were 205 citywide shooting incidents in June 2020, compared to 89 shooting incidents in June 2019, a 130.3% increase. Year-to-date, through June 30, there is a +46% spike in citywide shooting incidents (528 v. 362).Burglary increased +118.2% (1,783 v. 817) in June and is up +46.3% (7,234 v. 4,943) year-to-date through June 30.For the month of June, rape decreased by -21% (109 v. 138). Rape continues to be underreported. If you have been a victim of sexual assault, please come forward. The NYPD Special Victims Division's 24-hour hotline is 212-267-RAPE (7273).Year-to-date, through June 28, citywide hate crimes declined -38% (134 v. 212).

 

Dyr

Overheal wrote: »

Making America great again

Making New York Democrat again. Like it was the last time it went to ****.

Slowyourrole

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This again:rolleyes:, I thought I had already proved the naysayers wrong, go check the map I posted before, They have no reason to trespass into private property and did not keep walking by as you say, proof is when the couple confronted them they left back through the gate.

I did see your map. I felt it was misleading. It shows the area as if it's an entrance to a private house. It's actually the entrance to a through road that was being used as a shortcut to get to the mayors house. So again I ask, do you stand by your assertion they were just looking to wreck a nice house?

Overheal

So what I’m seeing in that NYPD release is Cops are doing their job less often and the crime rate is reflecting that.

They can’t legally go on strike but they’re doing their level best to juggle lives to fuel a narrative against their own defunding.

Slowyourrole

Overheal wrote: »

So what I’m seeing in that NYPD release is Cops are doing their job less often and the crime rate is reflecting that.

They can’t legally go on strike but they’re doing their level best to juggle lives to fuel a narrative against their own defunding.

Both sides are approaching this in the most unproductive manner. Treating all cops as the enemy will never lead to progress. At the same time, ignoring the actual aims of defunding the police and dismissing it as an attack is idiotic and stubborn.

Foxtrol

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Both sides are approaching this in the most unproductive manner. Treating all cops as the enemy will never lead to progress. At the same time, ignoring the actual aims of defunding the police and dismissing it as an attack is idiotic and stubborn.

This shouldn't be the way things are but the problem is that very few cops treat bad cops as their enemy, and when they do they get chased off the force. How do you trust a group that again and again lies to defend their 'bad apples' and fights any attempt to improve accountability?

Foxtrol

theraj2020 wrote: »

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

July 6, 2020

For the month of June 2020, the number of people victimized by gun violence and murder in New York City spiked significantly, when compared to the same period in 2019. Between June 1 and June 30, there was a 130% increase in the number of shooting incidents across the city (205 v. 89) as the number of shootings rose in every borough of New York. The number of people murdered citywide increased to 39 v. 30, (+ 30%) for the month, while the number of burglaries increased to 1,783 v. 817 (+118%) and the number of auto thefts increased to 696 v. 462 (+51%) citywide.

While the NYPD has made approximately 40,000 fewer overall arrests so far this year compared with last year, gun arrests year-to-date as of July 5 are 1,679 vs. 1,683. We have also seen the impacts of legislative mandates sending offenders no longer eligible for bail back to the streets where they are being regularly rearrested and contributing to overall crime in the city.

Every day our officers are taking innovative actions to meet the challenges of policing in a during the COVID-19 pandemic. They respond in real-time to crime spikes by gathering timely intelligence, analyzing crime trends and disseminating preventative measures to ensure safety for all.

“The sharp increase in shootings and violence in New York puts innocent people at risk and tears at the fabric of life in our city,” said NYPD Police Commissioner Dermot Shea. “The challenges are great for an NYPD facing the strain of deep budget cuts, changes to the criminal justice system that are impacting the courts and the continuing international health pandemic. But through it all, I have seen our hardworking men and women display an unwavering commitment to the kind of fair and effective policing that defines our agency and that New Yorkers expect and deserve.”

Increase in Shootings: New York City has seen an increase in gunfire in the last month – measured in the number of separate shooting incidents occurring across the city, and, more concerning, in the number of victims injured and killed. Every injury from a bullet can be a millimeter away from being a death. For the first weeks of June, the number of shootings in the city more than doubled compared to the same period a year ago. Through June 30, overall shootings citywide rose to 205 – with 270 victims. Currently, the number of parolees involved in shooting incidents or murders is at a 15-year high. Meanwhile, from January through the end of June, more than 2,000 people arrested in a crime with a gun recovered had cases against them that remain open in the courts.

Ongoing Challenges: The NYPD is enduring a round of deep budget cuts that have led to a class of 1,163 recruits being canceled. The department has also seen an increase in retirements. The NYPD’s facilitation of peaceful protest continues to utilize department resources. While the NYPD uses a lighter touch in regard to enforcement, offenders no longer eligible for bail are being rearrested: they have been rearrested for approximately 750 additional major felonies through June 26, compared with the population of those released in the same period a year ago.

Last month, Commissioner Shea announced a series of personnel changes to positon the department for the 21st Century policing by continuing to strengthen the bonds between officers and residents. He promoted Jeffrey B. Maddrey, the longtime chief of the NYPD’s Patrol Borough Brooklyn North, to the position of Chief of Community Affairs, at a moment of historic importance in the relationship between the police and the public. Other appointments the commissioner made will allow seasoned NYPD leaders to see the city and the residents we serve through these challenging times.

Key highlights from this month's crime statistics:

Murder is up +23.1% (181 v. 147) for the first six months of 2020 when compared to the first six months of 2019.There were 205 citywide shooting incidents in June 2020, compared to 89 shooting incidents in June 2019, a 130.3% increase. Year-to-date, through June 30, there is a +46% spike in citywide shooting incidents (528 v. 362).Burglary increased +118.2% (1,783 v. 817) in June and is up +46.3% (7,234 v. 4,943) year-to-date through June 30.For the month of June, rape decreased by -21% (109 v. 138). Rape continues to be underreported. If you have been a victim of sexual assault, please come forward. The NYPD Special Victims Division's 24-hour hotline is 212-267-RAPE (7273).Year-to-date, through June 28, citywide hate crimes declined -38% (134 v. 212).

 

The media just loves to hype up crime. There are definitely worrying increases in crimes but then when you look across the major group the NYPD tracks they're actually slightly down.

https://twitter.com/davidminpdx/status/1287975847421284353?s=20

Chris_Heilong

Slowyourrole wrote: »

I did see your map. I felt it was misleading. It shows the area as if it's an entrance to a private house. It's actually the entrance to a through road that was being used as a shortcut to get to the mayors house. So again I ask, do you stand by your assertion they were just looking to wreck a nice house?

Jesus man let it go, you are clearly wrong. Calling it a 'through road' even though there is a sign outside that entrance saying private do not enter.:rolleyes: