BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Retr0gamer

kildare lad wrote: »

Maybe the movement might care about 150 kids being shot in Chicago with 25 being killed ... They seem to love the limelight though when a black criminal gets shot in questionable circumstances. Strange that ??

I'm sure that people that align with the BLM movement care. Only a sociopath wouldn't. I find it horrendous. But the BLM movement is about tackling systemic racism in the government and its agencies. It's not about gang on gang violence.

You might as well be saying why aren't they protesting about what's happening in Yemen or in Hong Kong. It's totally disingenuous and a classic example of whataboutery.

Can we please actually get back to discussing BLM. If you want to discuss this then make another thread about gang on gang violence.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

The movement appears to be in regard to hate crimes and racial bias in policing.

It's in the title. Black Lives Matter. Better change it to Some Black Lives Matter so.

Retr0gamer

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's in the title. Black Lives Matter. Better change it to Some Black Lives Matter so.

I thought it was about socialism and communism? Or is it just about whatever you want it to be to deflect as much BS at the topic in the hopes some of it sticks.

BattleCorp

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I thought it was about socialism and communism? Or is it just about whatever you want it to be to deflect as much BS at the topic in the hopes some of it sticks.

Dude, if you are a dude, I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Where have I ever, and I mean ever mentioned socialism and communism in any of my BLM posts?

kildare lad

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sure that people that align with the BLM movement care. Only a sociopath wouldn't. I find it horrendous. But the BLM movement is about tackling systemic racism in the government and its agencies. It's not about gang on gang violence.

You might as well be saying why aren't they protesting about what's happening in Yemen or in Hong Kong. It's totally disingenuous and a classic example of whataboutery.

Can we please actually get back to discussing BLM. If you want to discuss this then make another thread about gang on gang violence.

Ok , just sweep nearly 100 people getting shot at the weekend under the rug . Let's get back to waiting for the next police shooting so we can go mental .

gozunda

Overheal wrote: »

Why would we require that component? Racism on Mars happens regardless if on Pluto they rape and behead everyone with 2 eyebrows.

I've previously demonstrated loads in this thread, from last year, and it fell on deaf ears. So, before I do any sort of demonstrating I would like to pause and get clarification on what we are agreeing to as a standard of evidence, otherwise everything proceeding will be a complete waste of our collective time again.

Well tbh thats untrue. What was posted previously simply did not stand up to scrutiny. No change as I understood it

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

Dude, if you are a dude, I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Where have I ever, and I mean ever mentioned socialism and communism in any of my BLM posts?

He just said that's what he thought it was.

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Its seems that everyone on the planet knows the colour of Chicagos gun crime victims except you.Do you live in that much of a bubble that you think it's white people getting killed in the inner-city of Chicago . Although two Puerto Ricans were executed last week by gang bangers for nothing . Just aswell the roles weren't reversed or you'd blow a head gasket . Google images of Chicago gun victims and the demographics is pretty clear.

Wow. I hope you see how racist this entire post was.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

Wow. I hope you see how racist this entire post was.

Nothing racist about it , you don't believe that most gun victims were black while everyone else who's know a thing or two about what's going on in Chicago would disagree with you . Googles handy for picking up information if you're stuck

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-homicide-victims-black-police-data-show

As gun violence in Chicago increased exponentially over the past decade, African Americans were overwhelmingly impacted. Local leaders continue to grapple with how to combat the spike while opposing plans by the Trump administration to deploy federal agents to the city.

From Jan. 1, 2010 through July 8 of this year, Black homicide victims accounted for 4,374 of the city's murders, according to figures provided by the Chicago Police Department to Fox News. The second-largest group impacted by gun violence -- Hispanics and Black Hispanics -- totaled 785 murder victims over the same period.

The murder rate of Black victims held steady, never surpassing 400 annually until 2016. That year, 607 Black people were killed, according to police. From Jan. 1 through July 8, the city reported 291 Black people killed.

White people had significantly lower homicide numbers followed by people of Asian descent and Native Americans.

"My theory is that it's a Black man's responsibility to reduce the gun violence in their communities," Hardiman, a Chicago resident who is Black, told Fox News. "You see, a lot of us continue to wait on the police to stop the killing. We continue to wait on programs to stop the killings. But it's really all about [how] the Black man must rise up to the occasion and really address the issue of gun violence in our community. The numbers will never surprise me."

Retr0gamer

And how does this have anything to do with BLM again?

kildare lad

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And how does this have anything to do with BLM again?

Nothing really ... 4500 black men shot dead in Chicago in 10 years .... You're right that's nothing got to do with BLACK LIVES MATTER

Retr0gamer

And while we are at it we should give out about the UNITED NAITONS for not uniting all nations, the and, APPLE for not even having one Pink Lady apple in it's product portfolio and most egregious of all, MR. KIPLING for not being run by a guy called Mr. Kipling, even though he does make exceedingly good cakes.

AbusesToilets

I see we're already back to the disingenuous arguments. That certainly didn't take long.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And while we are at it we should give out about the UNITED NAITONS for not uniting all nations, the and, APPLE for not even having one Pink Lady apple in it's product portfolio and most egregious of all, MR. KIPLING for not being run by a guy called Mr. Kipling, even though he does make exceedingly good cakes.

Ah... So you admit black lives matter is only a brand name and Doesn't represent or do anything to make black lives matter more than they do?

Explains a lot.

Actually explains how I can be against racism and despise the poxy organisation of BLM.

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

Nothing really ... 4500 black men shot dead in Chicago in 10 years .... You're right that's nothing got to do with BLACK LIVES MATTER

Yeah but remember when chauvin unjustly killed that criminal and absolutely no mention of race was made in the court case where he was found guilty?????

That's when BLM pounce like the superheroes they are.

BLM. A great bunch of lads.

kildare lad

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And while we are at it we should give out about the UNITED NAITONS for not uniting all nations, the and, APPLE for not even having one Pink Lady apple in it's product portfolio and most egregious of all, MR. KIPLING for not being run by a guy called Mr. Kipling, even though he does make exceedingly good cakes.

Ok you got me , good point . How about since they ignore the thousands upon thousands that are killed by black on black guns every year and they mainly focus on the handful on killings that are committed by police . Why don't they go for a name change ? I'm gonna go with Some black lives matter ,Very Few Black lives Matter or Not All Black lives Matter ...

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Nothing really ... 4500 black men shot dead in Chicago in 10 years .... You're right that's nothing got to do with BLACK LIVES MATTER

Source?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but remember when chauvin unjustly killed that criminal and absolutely no mention of race was made in the court case where he was found guilty?????

That's when BLM pounce like the superheroes they are.

BLM. A great bunch of lads.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. What does the prosecution's case have to do with the BLM?

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

Source?

What's the point , sure you don't believe anything I post anyway .

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Nothing racist about it , you don't believe that most gun victims were black while everyone else who's know a thing or two about what's going on in Chicago would disagree with you . Googles handy for picking up information if you're stuck

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-homicide-victims-black-police-data-show

As gun violence in Chicago increased exponentially over the past decade, African Americans were overwhelmingly impacted. Local leaders continue to grapple with how to combat the spike while opposing plans by the Trump administration to deploy federal agents to the city.

From Jan. 1, 2010 through July 8 of this year, Black homicide victims accounted for 4,374 of the city's murders, according to figures provided by the Chicago Police Department to Fox News. The second-largest group impacted by gun violence -- Hispanics and Black Hispanics -- totaled 785 murder victims over the same period.

The murder rate of Black victims held steady, never surpassing 400 annually until 2016. That year, 607 Black people were killed, according to police. From Jan. 1 through July 8, the city reported 291 Black people killed.

White people had significantly lower homicide numbers followed by people of Asian descent and Native Americans.

"My theory is that it's a Black man's responsibility to reduce the gun violence in their communities," Hardiman, a Chicago resident who is Black, told Fox News. "You see, a lot of us continue to wait on the police to stop the killing. We continue to wait on programs to stop the killings. But it's really all about [how] the Black man must rise up to the occasion and really address the issue of gun violence in our community. The numbers will never surprise me."

So you made assumptions about the race of the victims in Chicago from this weekend, based on past data.

Do you see the inherent racism in your exercise?

You still don't know the race of the victims from this weekend. We have no idea how many of them were white, or hispanic, or black, or anything. Yet, you've cited a total number of deaths in Chicago, from this weekend, and made the claim they are black, and that BLM should direct its activism toward it.

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

What's the point , sure you don't believe anything I post anyway .

I will take that as a retraction of your statement then.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. What does the prosecution's case have to do with the BLM?

I've no doubt you know exactly what I'm getting at.

BLM caused millions of damage across many countries due to the death of the career criminal George Floyd. A death which may have been unjust, but certainly not racially motivated.

But you can continue to talk about bridges, extraterrestrial rapists or whatever if you feel I'm off topic.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

So you made assumptions about the race of the victims in Chicago from this weekend, based on past data.

Do you see the inherent racism in your exercise?

You still don't know the race of the victims from this weekend. We have no idea how many of them were white, or hispanic, or black, or anything. Yet, you've cited a total number of deaths in Chicago, made the claim they are black, and that BLM should direct its activism toward it.

Any comment on the 4500 we do know about ?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no doubt you know exactly what I'm getting at.

BLM caused millions of damage across many countries due to the death of the career criminal George Floyd. A death which may have been unjust, but certainly not racially motivated.

But you can continue to talk about bridges, extraterrestrial rapists or whatever if you feel I'm off topic.

Certainty is a matter of opinion there. You'd cite the lack of race being raised as a part of the state's prosecution in the trial of Derek Chauvin - however, that's deliberately (or inadvertently, depending on your news digest) missing that race certainly played a factor in the Defense's argument:

From the beginning of the trial, the defense relied on a narrative rife with racist stereotypes that have been recycled over and over about Black people, especially Black men: that they are drug addicts, criminals, loud and angry, and therefore, dangerous. The defense’s case makes it possible for a person to hold divergent ideas about the case: support for the prosecution’s case and the jury verdict against Derek Chauvin but also confirmation of the persistent narrative about dangerous Black men. That old, racist narrative might be expected to hold credence with those in support of Chauvin, but its repetition also reaches people who believe the officer acted excessively.

https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2021/04/23/derek-chauvin-guilty-verdict-defense-fern-l-johnson-marlene-g-fine

further reading:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger
https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/04/16/derek-chauvins-defense-is-grounded-in-centuries-of-exploiting-black-bodies/
https://spokesman-recorder.com/2021/04/02/defense-falls-back-on-racist-stereotypes/
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/04/06/chauvin-floyd-trial-angry-black-man-492375

So, if your argument was to say BLM were off the mark in protesting the death of George Floyd, the defense's argument seems to indicate the opposite.

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Any comment on the 4500 we do know about ?

You previously declined to cite the figure correctly, so until that happens no I don't have any comment on it.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Certainty is a matter of opinion there. You'd cite the lack of race being raised as a part of the state's prosecution in the trial of Derek Chauvin - however, that's deliberately (or inadvertently, depending on your news digest) missing that race certainly played a factor in the Defense's argument:

From the beginning of the trial, the defense relied on a narrative rife with racist stereotypes that have been recycled over and over about Black people, especially Black men: that they are drug addicts, criminals, loud and angry, and therefore, dangerous. The defense’s case makes it possible for a person to hold divergent ideas about the case: support for the prosecution’s case and the jury verdict against Derek Chauvin but also confirmation of the persistent narrative about dangerous Black men. That old, racist narrative might be expected to hold credence with those in support of Chauvin, but its repetition also reaches people who believe the officer acted excessively.

https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2021/04/23/derek-chauvin-guilty-verdict-defense-fern-l-johnson-marlene-g-fine

further reading:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger
https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/04/16/derek-chauvins-defense-is-grounded-in-centuries-of-exploiting-black-bodies/
https://spokesman-recorder.com/2021/04/02/defense-falls-back-on-racist-stereotypes/
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/04/06/chauvin-floyd-trial-angry-black-man-492375

So, if your argument was to say BLM were off the mark in protesting the death of George Floyd, the defense's argument seems to indicate the opposite.

I've no intention of arguing. It's more of an exchange of opinions.

George Floyd, in my opinion, died because of exceptionally bad policing.

Nowt to do with race.

I've yet to see anything to convince me otherwise. You may say that is because I don't want to see it, but I could also say that against you so it's an impasse.

George Floyd was a terrible man. A terrible man who met a terrible death. A death which was unjust. The man who caused that death has been found guilty and is in jail.

**** all to do with race.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

You previously declined to cite the figure correctly, so until that happens no I don't have any comment on it.

I gave you a source , you choose to ignore it and became childish because I rounded off the numbers . For someone who claims to live in America you know very little about what goes on in a major city in your country .

AbusesToilets

kildare lad wrote: »

I gave you a source , you choose to ignore it and became childish because I rounded off the numbers . For someone who claims to live in America you know very little about what goes on in a major city in your country .

I think you'll find Overheal is perfectly aware of the situation in Chicago, but is choosing to feign ignorance and mock outrage to score points.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think you'll think Overheal is perfectly aware of the situation in Chicago, but is choosing to feign ignorance and mock outrage to score points.

Wouldn't a perfect awareness include actually knowing the race of the victims in Chicago this week, which were cited from a race-agnostic source in this thread and used as a prop to bash the BLM movement over the head with?

I think anyone in this thread who thinks they are "perfectly aware" of the situation in Chicago is deluding themselves.

@ Kildare Lad, I see your source at the end of the last page is what you were making a reference to (hence your comment about rounding); I'm still not seeing how this information as I said previously leads us to conclude all the victims in Chicago must be black. On any given day, it doesn't tell us how many blacks were killed, or if any were at all, simply to know a death toll.

MarkEadie

Overheal wrote: »

Wouldn't a perfect awareness include actually knowing the race of the victims in Chicago this week, which were cited from a race-agnostic source in this thread and used as a prop to bash the BLM movement over the head with?

I think anyone in this thread who thinks they are "perfectly aware" of the situation in Chicago is deluding themselves.

@ Kildare Lad, I see your source at the end of the last page is what you were making a reference to (hence your comment about rounding); I'm still not seeing how this information as I said previously leads us to conclude all the victims in Chicago must be black. On any given day, it doesn't tell us how many blacks were killed, or if any were at all, simply to know a death toll.

They are victims of crime in Chicago. Therefore they must be black. I think that's something you'd hear from the patriotic alternative videos he has linked in the past. Completely illogical and racist