BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Rodney Bathgate

Overheal wrote: »

The chokehold was 8 minutes 46 seconds.

Are you sure?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52861726

“ For seven minutes and 46 seconds, Mr Chauvin kept his knee on Mr Floyd's neck, the prosecutors' report says. The duration was initially given as eight minutes and 46 seconds until Minnesota prosecutors corrected the figure three weeks after Mr Floyd's death.”

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-18/derek-chauvin-had-knee-george-floyd-neck-746-rather-than-846

“ MINNEAPOLIS — Minnesota prosecutors acknowledged Wednesday that a Minneapolis police officer had his knee on the neck of George Floyd for 7 minutes, 46 seconds — not the 8:46 that has become a symbol of police brutality”

Rodney Bathgate

Overheal wrote: »

The chokehold was 8 minutes 46 seconds.



It's not just one death though, George Floyds death was one of dozens, if not hundreds of high profile deaths in the last even 5 years. It was merely such a dry cut example that the outpouring of protest was swift and vociferous. Even Breonna Taylor didn't generate that much widespread unrest because of how muddied the situation was and that we only have written or oral accounts of what happened. If we had body camera footage from that night you'd see a much different response.

Hundreds of deaths? That seems excessive. Any links to quantify this figure, as hundreds could be 200 or 900.

Overheal

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Are you sure?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52861726

“ For seven minutes and 46 seconds, Mr Chauvin kept his knee on Mr Floyd's neck, the prosecutors' report says. The duration was initially given as eight minutes and 46 seconds until Minnesota prosecutors corrected the figure three weeks after Mr Floyd's death.”

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-18/derek-chauvin-had-knee-george-floyd-neck-746-rather-than-846

“ MINNEAPOLIS — Minnesota prosecutors acknowledged Wednesday that a Minneapolis police officer had his knee on the neck of George Floyd for 7 minutes, 46 seconds — not the 8:46 that has become a symbol of police brutality”

Fair enough. Paywalled.

Overheal

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Hundreds of deaths? That seems excessive. Any links to quantify this figure, as hundreds could be 200 or 900.

Several hundred. I don't think this WaPo link is paywalled either, let me know if it is and I will accomdate:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

They provide direct download to their data at github, their bar chart in the above link doesn't give a time frame of when to when those totals are from:

https://github.com/washingtonpost/data-police-shootings

Getting a definitive list of how many are 'high profile' or not would be reasonably subjective

edit: extra source,

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Tell me how

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Seems to be a political agenda behind all this though, looking to take advantage of the actions of one or more poorly trained police officers.

An officer doing something he shouldn’t have, doesn’t necessarily mean change is needed, beyond better training.

Does there seem to be?

Have you seen protests organised widely or attended widely and continuously by political people? Because I haven't.

If all the protests in hundreds of towns and cities across the country have been organised and attended by activists wanting changing, is that not the essence of the people saying what it is they want?

Irrespective of that, as stated before, this isn't about just one death, it is about repeated and sustained experiences in which people within the black community have suffered because of the treatment which they have experienced from the police and how they are treated seems to be different to how white people are treated, by and large.

In terms of officer training, many of the people calling for change, indeed want better training, but also, they want to see funds more appropriately spent than just on police militarization. For example, train more community welfare people and have them engage with members of the public rather than police would probably be a better approach for everyone involved.

Rodney Bathgate

Thanks, any breakdown of how many of the people killed were armed?

biko

Overheal wrote: »

chokehold.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

chokehold

I know it's semantics but it was not a chokehold.

Words matter.

This is a chokehold

Overheal

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Thanks, any breakdown of how many of the people killed were armed?

According to this, https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Blacks are 3x more likely to be killed than whites, and 1.3x more often are likely to be unarmed. It's all tabulated in their spreadsheet, usually beetween "Vehicle, Unarmed/Did not have an actual weapon, Unclear, Allegedly Armed" with names, dates, ethnicity, incident descriptions, alleged weapon type, etc etc

biko

Overheal wrote: »

According to this, https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Blacks are 3x more likely to be killed than whites, and 1.3x more often are likely to be unarmed. It's all tabulated in their spreadsheet, usually beetween "Vehicle, Unarmed/Did not have an actual weapon, Unclear, Allegedly Armed" with names, dates, ethnicity, incident descriptions, alleged weapon type, etc etc

Interesting as according to WP reported research 2015 it's the other way around. Maybe things have changed or the bases for the two reports differ somehow.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/

It’s widely assumed that white police officers are more likely to shoot black suspects as a result of racial bias, but recent research suggests the opposite is true.

An innovative study published in the Journal of Experimental Criminology found that participants in realistic simulations felt more threatened by black suspects yet took longer to pull the trigger on black men than on white or Hispanic men.

The results back up what one of the researchers, University of Missouri-St. Louis professor David Klinger, has found after independently interviewing more than 300 police officers: While they don’t want to shoot anybody, they really don’t want to shoot black suspects.

Rodney Bathgate

Overheal wrote: »

According to this, https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Blacks are 3x more likely to be killed than whites, and 1.3x more often are likely to be unarmed. It's all tabulated in their spreadsheet, usually beetween "Vehicle, Unarmed/Did not have an actual weapon, Unclear, Allegedly Armed" with names, dates, ethnicity, incident descriptions, alleged weapon type, etc etc

Thanks. I don’t think the 3x is relevant since it includes armed and unarmed (as I understand it). I personally wouldn’t have any qualms about police shootings of armed suspects, regardless of race.

The 1.3 obviously isn’t ideal, they need to work on that so it is consistent regardless of race.

stinkypinky

Overheal wrote: »

According to this, https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Blacks are 3x more likely to be killed than whites, and 1.3x more often are likely to be unarmed.

You can find any opinion piece or link to try and prove your agenda from random sites. Flat earthers argue in much the same way. If you want to be taken anyway serious at all post raw FBI crime statistics, of course youll never do that because reality doesn't suit your twisted narrative.

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

There was a poll released that asked the question " Would you prefer police spend less or more time in your community" - 61 percent of African Americans said the same presence and 20 percent said a higher one.

African Americans don't feel as confident in interactions with police as other races - now this is purely opinion but I don't believe it's down to cops targeting blacks, but due to intense media coverage of isolated incidents. On a yearly basis cops in America have hundreds of millions of interactions with the general public, occasionally there will be isolated incidents where things go bad and an officer is found to at fault.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-retain-local-presence.aspx

DelaneyIn

Zoe Saldana has apologised for playing Nina Simone in the 2016 biopic Nina, a casting that drew criticism from the late singer’s estate. “I should have never played Nina,” she said in an interview on Instagram with Steven Canals, creator of TV show Pose. “I’m so sorry. I know better today and I’m never going to do that again. She’s one of our giants and someone else should step up. Somebody else should tell her story.”

Saldana is of Dominican and Puerto Rican descent, and used skin-darkening makeup when playing Simone, as well as a prosthetic nose. In 2012, when the casting was announced, the singer’s daughter Lisa Simone Kelly praised Saldana’s acting but said: “Appearance-wise, this is not the best choice.” She called for actors with “beautiful, luscious lips and wide noses” to play her mother. In 2016, the official Twitter account run by Simone’s estate told Saldana: “Please take Nina’s name out your mouth. For the rest of your life.”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/06/zoe-saldana-sorry-nina-simone-biopic-film?CMP=share_btn_tw

Black actress has to apologise for playing black character after being accused of blackface for not being black enough. Have we reached peak racism hysteria yet?

Overheal

biko wrote: »

I know it's semantics but it was not a chokehold.

Words matter.

This is a chokehold

The net effect is the same: to constrict breathing.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Interesting as according to WP reported research 2015 it's the other way around. Maybe things have changed or the bases for the two reports differ somehow.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/

That's certainly a dissenting study but is not apples to apples, it is looking at 'hesitation to shoot.' Whereas a much broader body of study looks at the actual data, that being the actual killing of blacks vs. whites, in which per capita blacks are killed at 2.5-3x the rate of whites

Tell me how

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Black actress has to apologise for playing black character after being accused of blackface for not being black enough. Have we reached peak racism hysteria yet?

Can you not see how people would like to see one of the noted members of their community, with facial features recognized as being prominent within that community, would like to see actors, from that community, with the same facial features represent that person in a movie rather than someone from outside the community wearing a prosthetic to do so.

It's not just about Nina Simone being represented but it is about the implied suggestion that no one with such facial features was capable of playing her in the movie which grates with people.

How is any of that racism hysteria?

Rodney Bathgate

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/06/zoe-saldana-sorry-nina-simone-biopic-film?CMP=share_btn_tw

Black actress has to apologise for playing black character after being accused of blackface for not being black enough. Have we reached peak racism hysteria yet?

I was reading about this yesterday in a BBC article. At the time of the film release she was defended her decision quite strenuously.

In 2013, she told Latina magazine: "Let me tell you, if Elizabeth Taylor can be Cleopatra, I can be Nina - I'm sorry. It doesn't matter how much backlash I will get for it. I will honour and respect my black community because that's who I am."

In another interview with Allure in 2016, she said: "There's no one way to be black. You have no idea who I am. I am black. I'm raising black men. Don't you ever think you can look at me and address me with such disdain."

Disappointing that she feels the need to apologise now.

I hope she isn’t being ostracised for playing this role.

Tell me how

biko wrote: »

I know it's semantics but it was not a chokehold.

Words matter.

This is a chokehold

And this is a calm arrest.



One guy was accused of selling counterfeit cigarrettes, the other of killing 9 people.

Wanna guess which picture was of which accused?

Overheal

stinkypinky wrote: »

You can find any opinion piece or link to try and prove your agenda from random sites. Flat earthers argue in much the same way. If you want to be taken anyway serious at all post raw FBI crime statistics, of course youll never do that because reality doesn't suit your twisted narrative.

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

There was a poll released that asked the question " Would you prefer police spend less or more time in your community" - 61 percent of African Americans said the same presence and 20 percent said a higher one.

African Americans don't feel as confident in interactions with police as other races - now this is purely opinion but I don't believe it's down to cops targeting blacks, but due to intense media coverage of isolated incidents. On a yearly basis cops in America have hundreds of millions of interactions with the general public, occasionally there will be isolated incidents where things go bad and an officer is found to at fault.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-retain-local-presence.aspx

I didn't link to polling or opinion. I linked to data of recorded killings. You can download the .xlxs for yourself at the link:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/s/MPVDatasetDownload.xlsx

I'd attach it to make it even simpler but boards has a 300 kB limit on spreadsheets.

Rodney Bathgate

Tell me how wrote: »

And this is a calm arrest.



One guy was accused of selling counterfeit cigarrettes, the other of killing 9 people.

Wanna guess which picture was of which accused?

Did either of them resist arrest?

Tell me how

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Did either of them resist arrest?

This guy did.

biko

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Did either of them resist arrest?

I just watched the arrest videos of both. One complied with police immediately, the other did not.

biko

Naked man videos, yay

Warning, man is tased, can be distressing to some viewers (was to me anyway)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgAaxgsDMFE

Overheal

biko wrote: »

I just watched the arrest videos of both. One complied with police immediately, the other did not.

"immediately" after fleeing hundreds of miles from the scene of a massacre.

Cops approached with guns held low, didn't scream or shout hysterics as they do many lesser offenses.

Rodney Bathgate

biko wrote: »

I just watched the arrest videos of both. One complied with police immediately, the other did not.

I’m guessing the guy being lead away calmly didn’t resist?

Seems a disingenuous comparison, implying that race has something to do with the difference in approach when actually it had nothing to do with the difference in approach.

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

Tell me how

.

You want to keep doing this?

Rodney Bathgate

Overheal wrote: »

"immediately" after fleeing hundreds of miles from the scene of a massacre.

Cops approached with guns held low, didn't scream or shout hysterics as they do many lesser offenses.

I assume the police weren’t attempting to arrest him when he fled the scene of a massacre? In which case he wasn’t ‘resisting arrest’.

Quantum Erasure

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/06/zoe-saldana-sorry-nina-simone-biopic-film?CMP=share_btn_tw

Black actress has to apologise for playing black character after being accused of blackface for not being black enough. Have we reached peak racism hysteria yet?

should Nicole Kidman apologise for playing Virginia Woolf?? Should Charlize Theron apologise for playing the character in Monster?....

Overheal

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I assume the police weren’t attempting to arrest him when he fled the scene of a massacre? In which case he wasn’t ‘resisting arrest’.

There was a manhunt for him. You're mistaken.

Tell me how

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I assume the police weren’t attempting to arrest him when he fled the scene of a massacre? In which case he wasn’t ‘resisting arrest’.

Yeah, he fled the scene looking for a police station to voluntarily present.