BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

Bonniedog wrote: »

In what way is cops killing a criminal oppression?

Same applies to the scum who rioted over the London crim Duggan,

Why do they identify with dirt bags?

The protests are not simply and solely because if the death of a single individual. The death of that individual brought a focus (once again) on to the injustices which people within particular communities commonly experience, but by and large have grown to accept and tolerate.

When an event such as George Floyds killing (bear in mind that situation went from one of the officers suggesting they getting an oxygen mask for him to his neck being knelt on for nearly 8 minutes) occurs, it causes people to collectively say 'hang on, this is too much, something needs to change'.

iebamm2580

Tell me how wrote: »

Or what about the parents of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor or Eric Garner? Is their suffering to be discounted?

Based on the widespread participation at protests and marches, I think it is fair to say that the most commonly held views within the black communities, Chicago and elsewhere are that this is a justified movement.

The current model of police force practices have had their opportunity in Chicago and elsewhere and the deaths continue to grow in areas such as Chicago. No rational argument is saying that there should be no police. Or that there won't be instances where they need to be armed and ready to use them but the argument is that instead that the needs of the community are looked at to determine if there is a way to prevent it getting to the point where armed police in a violent confrontation is the common occurrence.

Is it really desirable for any society to have police with equipment designed for warzones while teachers have to but their own materials due to lack of funds?

Can you not see how even at that fundamental level that engaging with children in a more meaningful productive education system could lessen the chance that they would turn towards a life of crime?

I agree with alot of this, my point is simply the police does not have to be defunded to increase resources for the many disenfranchised black communities, they are not mutually exclusive. I however can not agree in any way to defund the police. It makes no sense to have less police on the beat in chicago for example, if you think less police means less crime we may aswell agree to disagree. Also to get to the state you are talking to engage with communities from young children up to prevent criminal activity later in life will take decades and in the mean time fully funded police are necessary. If in the future crime lowers due to community engagement then the police presence can be lowered.
BTW i do think that black Americans are treated badly by cops as i have seen with my own eyes when in america. Im not arguing that fact at all.

Tell me how

iebamm2580 wrote: »

I agree with alot of this, my point is simply the police does not have to be defunded to increase resources for the many disenfranchised black communities, they are not mutually exclusive. I however can not agree in any way to defund the police. It makes no sense to have less police on the beat in chicago for example, if you think less police means less crime we may aswell agree to disagree. Also to get to the state you are talking to engage with communities from young children up to prevent criminal activity later in life will take decades and in the mean time fully funded police are necessary. If in the future crime lowers due to community engagement then the police presence can be lowered.
BTW i do think that black Americans are treated badly by cops as i have seen with my own eyes when in america. Im not arguing that fact at all.

Look at it this way.

Less money for police = More money for education, more money for mental health supports, more money for social groups.

Hell, even keep the same number of police but train them in de-escalation and mental health assessment instead of how to use weapons and perform within a SWAT team.

2u2me

Tell me how wrote: »

Is it really desirable for any society to have police with equipment designed for warzones while teachers have to buy their own materials due to lack of funds?

You seem to be making out that the police are spending money on this equipment. If so this is grossly inaccurate as the 1033 program shows the equipment is a hand-me-down from the military.

If they hadn't taken this equipment they would have to spend more on what was the bulk of what they took;

the most visible, big-ticket, military item being sent to local law enforcement: mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles, or MRAPs.

https://www.npr.org/2014/09/02/342494225/mraps-and-bayonets-what-we-know-about-the-pentagons-1033-program
The same vehicles used to save many 'protestors' during the 'protests'.

Had they not taken these vehicles they would have to spend the money on more equipment.

Using this as evidence for improper spending is inaccurate at the very least.

iebamm2580

Tell me how wrote: »

Look at it this way.

Less money for police = More money for education, more money for mental health supports, more money for social groups.

Hell, even keep the same number of police but train them in de-escalation and mental health assessment instead of how to use weapons and perform within a SWAT team.

yea alot of them do need to learn de-escalation but america is so messed up with the amount of guns on the street, cops are fearful which is understandable,but still dont agree that they need to be defunded, its not as if america is short a few quid. Its a myriad of problems really that will not be solved at 4am on an irish discussion forum.

Tell me how

iebamm2580 wrote: »

yea alot of them do need to learn de-escalation but america is so messed up with the amount of guns on the street, cops are fearful which is understandable,but still dont agree that they need to be defunded, its not as if america is short a few quid. Its a myriad of problems really that will not be solved at 4am on an irish discussion forum.

Well, I'm living in America at the moment and I am quite sure we can crack this and fix all the issues if we just knuckle down for an hour before going to bed.

Sadly, Ryan Whitaker is completely overlooked as bad policing and excessive force yet murals of career criminal George Floyd spring up all over the place and he is somehow used as an excuse for looting.

If Ryan Whitaker was black, there would be months and months of protests and looting. He's white though so absolute radio silence. Because of the colour of his skin? That's some privilege.

I oppose racism, I oppose injustice and I certainly oppose black lives matter.

Biafranlivemat

Black lives do not matter.
See the following graph.
Every major US city has seen an increase in murders, since the Death of George Floyd.
Probably 95% of the murders are of black and Brown people.
Where is the outcry …..Nothing but the sound of crickets.



Homicide statistics in St. Louis, next door to Ferguson, MO, were perhaps the first fairly big city to reflect the Ferguson Effect of rising homicide numbers in the First BLM Era. If you stare closely at this graph of homicides in the city of St. Louis, you can that homicides were notably more frequent from late 2014 through spring of 2020 than in the half decade before BLM debuted at Ferguson (August 2014).

Tell me how

^^^^
Where were the calls for All Lives Matter before the BLM protests?

1800_Ladladlad

Seeing a fair few fews on my feed of blacks attacking white people who are on their own. The usual kicking and stopping on the person's head ensues while they're on the ground and in most cases when the person is not conscious. WLM

Carfacemandog

Tell me how wrote: »

Based on the widespread participation at protests and marches, I think it is fair to say that the most commonly held views within the black communities, Chicago and elsewhere are that this is a justified movement.

Not just black communities in the US - two thirds of all Americans support the protests. Its as overwhelming as our 8th amendment as gay marriage referendums were, despite the beliefs that it would go the other way and backfire entirely in the manner some predicted and as seen in these threads, are still desperately clinging to the lost hopes of.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/28/poll-most-americans-support-black-lives-matter-protests/5532345002/
The poll found that 65% of U.S. adults support the protests. Additionally, 53% said the protests "will help" public support for equality and racial justice versus 34% who said they would "hurt" and 13% who said they will "make no difference."

The poll also reports that approximately one in 10 respondents said they had participated in a demonstration in the last month. Among younger respondents, that number jumps to one in four.

In terms of support for the protests, 92% of Black Americans said they support the protests, while 89% of Asian Americans, 70% of Hispanics and 59% of white respondents said they do.

Varik

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Not just black communities in the US - two thirds of all Americans support the protests. Its as overwhelming as our 8th amendment as gay marriage referendums were, despite the beliefs that it would go the other way and backfire entirely in the manner some predicted and as seen in these threads, are still desperately clinging to the lost hopes of.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/28/poll-most-americans-support-black-lives-matter-protests/5532345002/
The poll found that 65% of U.S. adults support the protests. Additionally, 53% said the protests "will help" public support for equality and racial justice versus 34% who said they would "hurt" and 13% who said they will "make no difference."

The poll also reports that approximately one in 10 respondents said they had participated in a demonstration in the last month. Among younger respondents, that number jumps to one in four.

In terms of support for the protests, 92% of Black Americans said they support the protests, while 89% of Asian Americans, 70% of Hispanics and 59% of white respondents said they do.

Ye that can be believed, that 1/10 or 1/4 of ALL Americans were participating in protest show how ****ed up their sampling was.

TomTomTim

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Not just black communities in the US - two thirds of all Americans support the protests. Its as overwhelming as our 8th amendment as gay marriage referendums were, despite the beliefs that it would go the other way and backfire entirely in the manner some predicted and as seen in these threads, are still desperately clinging to the lost hopes of.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/28/poll-most-americans-support-black-lives-matter-protests/5532345002/
The poll found that 65% of U.S. adults support the protests. Additionally, 53% said the protests "will help" public support for equality and racial justice versus 34% who said they would "hurt" and 13% who said they will "make no difference."

The poll also reports that approximately one in 10 respondents said they had participated in a demonstration in the last month. Among younger respondents, that number jumps to one in four.

In terms of support for the protests, 92% of Black Americans said they support the protests, while 89% of Asian Americans, 70% of Hispanics and 59% of white respondents said they do.

Can you please link this poll? They've not linked it which is bad journalism, so we're of to a bad start. Searching Gallup and the date it was published doesn't bring up anything obvious either, but maybe I'm missing something. I simply want to see how the questions were framed, as it matters greatly.

Foxtrol

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Black lives do not matter.
See the following graph.
Every major US city has seen an increase in murders, since the Death of George Floyd.
Probably 95% of the murders are of black and Brown people.
Where is the outcry …..Nothing but the sound of crickets.

This seems like another incredible misunderstanding of correlation and causation.

Homicide statistics in St. Louis, next door to Ferguson, MO, were perhaps the first fairly big city to reflect the Ferguson Effect of rising homicide numbers in the First BLM Era. If you stare closely at this graph of homicides in the city of St. Louis, you can that homicides were notably more frequent from late 2014 through spring of 2020 than in the half decade before BLM debuted at Ferguson (August 2014).

Again, completely unproven claims of causation.

Chris_Heilong

I we can get a version of BLM without all the anti White racism, Marxist ideology, rioting and one that is not based on the lie that was "hands up dont shoot" then I could support them and I think many who oppose the current iteration would support also.

Foxtrol

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I we can get a version of BLM without all the anti White racism, Marxist ideology, rioting and one that is not based on the lie that was "hands up dont shoot" then I could support them and I think many who oppose the current iteration would support also.

As we've seen time and again, there is always an excuse for not supporting black people that protest.

MLK even wrote about it:

MLK wrote:

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

As we've seen time and again, there is always an excuse for not supporting black people that protest.

MLK even wrote about it:

Considering BLM ideology is mental at the best of times and at worst thinly veiled attacks/blame on the white race for all there problems I'm not surprised most white people that are capable of reading beyond headlines don't support there nonsense , most people would support it regardless of color if they had a genuine and fair cause, but BLM have been caught out multiple times manipulating situations to there own benifits you only have to look at the GF situation they hijacked and twisted.

BLM made a nice few quid off auld GF.

Also the post you qouted is the truth, not an excuse.

Overheal

Great policing guys :rolleyes: this presumably unfolded yesterday and was reported today

https://twitter.com/mmpadellan/status/1292863095510126603?s=20

Tammi Collins, the mother of one of the teens, says her son and a couple of friends were sitting at a bus stop when a homeless man asked if they had any crack and then tried to steal their stuff. She says the man became super aggro, ripped his shirt off and pulled a knife on them, and attempted to stab them. She says the kids fended the man off with their skateboards.

Tammi says several 911 calls were placed and all but one claimed the boys were the victims, but one caller, she says, told the dispatcher "two black guys were attacking a homeless man."

The deputies have their weapons trained on the teens, as bystanders explained they were the victims, but the cops were unmoved. It's unclear if the teens were placed under arrest. We have no idea if the cops detained the homeless man, or if he was even around when they arrived.

We reached out to the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. ... so far, no word back.

Originally published -- 7:13 AM PT

I'd expect a full inquiry into that one to see what the 911 dispatcher relayed to officers; multiple calls that the homeless man was the aggressor vs. 1 that said the teens were fighting with a homeless man, apparently that was enough to roll up and point rifles at the teenagers.

Carfacemandog

TomTomTim wrote: »

Can you please link this poll? They've not linked it which is bad journalism, so we're of to a bad start. Searching Gallup and the date it was published doesn't bring up anything obvious either, but maybe I'm missing something. I simply want to see how the questions were framed, as it matters greatly.

Here you are - I have attached the screenshot of the particular part I cited as well, as there are a few other questions in there too.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/316106/two-three-americans-support-racial-justice-protests.aspx

weldoninhio

Just seen an online petition regarding the African gangs in Balbriggan After 2 houses were destroyed by fire over the weekend, although obviously it just says “gangs”. Can’t actually say what it is. Wonder how long it’ll be before anyone that signs it is called a racist and the BLM numpties descend on Balbriggan.

Hand in Your Pants

Stopped over in Dublin on Saturday and saw some chubby and bullish BLM protestors facing off against a bunch of sweaty and skittish Covid is a hoax demonstrators. What am I missing? What does one have to do with the other? Why are all the BLM protestors white and pasty with weird chocolate button eyes and overweight?

Rodney Bathgate

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Stopped over in Dublin on Saturday and saw some chubby and bullish BLM protestors facing off against a bunch of sweaty and skittish Covid is a hoax demonstrators. What am I missing? What does one have to do with the other? Why are all the BLM protestors white and pasty with weird chocolate button eyes and overweight?

Not unlike the creepy ‘male feminist’ phenomenon.

Beechwoodspark

weldoninhio wrote: »

Just seen an online petition regarding the African gangs in Balbriggan After 2 houses were destroyed by fire over the weekend, although obviously it just says “gangs”. Can’t actually say what it is. Wonder how long it’ll be before anyone that signs it is called a racist and the BLM numpties descend on Balbriggan.

Just saw the video on broadsheet

Absolute scum of the earth

Bonniedog

weldoninhio wrote: »

Just seen an online petition regarding the African gangs in Balbriggan After 2 houses were destroyed by fire over the weekend, although obviously it just says “gangs”. Can’t actually say what it is. Wonder how long it’ll be before anyone that signs it is called a racist and the BLM numpties descend on Balbriggan.

That petition won't last long. Anyway, O'Reilly the SF TD has met with the peelers and probably accused them of provoking the whole thing through their heavy-handed racist policing.

I have in law who lives near the town and voted for the Green who won the bye-election and retained his seat in generals on basis that he might do something about the "newcomers," although that is not exactly the word she used!

I asked her had she actually read any of the Greens manifesto

Seriously though, these dirtbags need to be dealt with or north Dublin county will be like north London where not a few of them originated on their brave flight from oppression.

Foxtrol

weldoninhio wrote: »

Just seen an online petition regarding the African gangs in Balbriggan After 2 houses were destroyed by fire over the weekend, although obviously it just says “gangs”. Can’t actually say what it is. Wonder how long it’ll be before anyone that signs it is called a racist and the BLM numpties descend on Balbriggan.

I don't remember the calls for noting the race of those involved in gangland crime in Ireland when it was nearly 100% white criminals... Why is that?

Akesh

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't remember the calls for noting the race of those involved in gangland crime in Ireland when it was nearly 100% white criminals... Why is that?

Probably because the country has enough feral youths without importing any more. Particularly economic migrants who are dumped in areas such as Balbriggan and are causing chaos. The government are doing nothing, eventually people will take matters into their own hands.

Foxtrol

Akesh wrote: »

Probably because the country has enough feral youths without importing any more. Particularly economic migrants who are dumped in areas such as Balbriggan and are causing chaos. The government are doing nothing, eventually people will take matters into their own hands.

That rant has nothing to do with my question

darlett

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't remember the calls for noting the race of those involved in gangland crime in Ireland when it was nearly 100% white criminals... Why is that?

Ok, I'll bite. Nearly 100% white gangland crime in a nearly 100% white country is exactly the sort of gangland crime ethicity you would be expecting to find so you will not recall anyone noting this, unless perhaps to note "Quelle Surprise, that makes sense". You might note the parallels between commentary on the two is that they are all scumbags ripping off our welfare state. (Some would suggest that was totes classist then and now it is racist.) And I'm sure if it was an option we would without any deep regret deport our home grown criminals.

Tell me how

darlett wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. Nearly 100% white gangland crime in a nearly 100% white country is exactly the gangland crime you would expect to find so you will not recall anyone noting this, unless perhaps to note "Quelle Surprise". You might note the parallels between commentary on the two is that they are all scumbags ripping off our welfare state. And I'm sure if it was an option we would without any deep regret deport our home grown criminals.

I always found it funny how many who want to deport others out of Ireland were adamant that Lisa Smith shouldn't be allowed to return.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

I always found it funny how many who want to deport others out of Ireland were adamant that Lisa Smith shouldn't be allowed to return.

People who joined the Islamic state tended to renounce their former citizenship and burned their passports.
Islamic State wasn't some sort of middle Eastern J1 experience. People have every right to be upset about people returning from that situation.