BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Police Members investigated



The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

I'm not looking into those figures in depth at this hour (will do tomorrow) but investigated or disciplined is different than being found guilty. I'm assuming any accusation of misconduct would involve an investigation.

Also, your figures of people involved in protests is spurious as I'm sure it doesn't involve those who are classed as looters as they are separate (although the same)

So those figures mean nowt.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not looking into those figures in depth at this hour (will do tomorrow) but investigated or disciplined is different than being found guilty. I'm assuming any accusation of misconduct would involve an investigation.

Also, your figures of people involved in protests is spurious as I'm sure it doesn't involve those who are classed as looters as they are separate (although the same)

So those figures mean nowt.

Lol.

But your evidence is to be taken as Gospel? Sure, ok then. If you say so.

Biafranlivemat

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain how this is the case?

Also, in case you don't realise it, Asians don't quite have the same history in the US as the Black community does. As shown in Hong Kong, Asians are more than capable of activism when they feel they are being oppressed, where is the evidence that they have in any way a comparable experience as a community?

Asians have an excellent Family structure (no different kids with different “partners”)
Work very hard
Have self control, compared to other groups
Have a somewhat higher IQ (I know, it is dangerous to say that)
And to top it off, they do face Discrimination from Progressives/Liberals.

stinkypinky

Tell me how wrote: »

Point me to the BLM national leadership team, similar to the GOP or the DNC?
As far as I am aware, such a group does not yet exist while what does exist is chapters in various locations which, I think operate largely autonomously.

I would also say, if this is a cogent plan amongst them, they really are doing very poorly at it aren't they given the 20M people who have marched and the comparative small amount of violence there has been on the vast majority of marches.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

Biafranlivemat

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know what you expect me to say here. Yes, anyone losing their business or seeing it destroyed is not a good thing. But, activism, of any sort is only successful when it draws attention to a cause and that is why there are protests and when you mix protests, high emotions, and an opposition of sorts, tempers do rise and people strike out. And I again point out that the vast majority of protests and attendants are entirely trouble free.

Do you think the entire BLM movement is invalidated if a single window is broken on a protest march?

What is your home address, i need to prove a point to you about 1 broken window

stinkypinky

Deleted User wrote: »

So those figures mean nowt.

Thought figures mean nothing because people marched for the slogan - not for their agenda which is a different beast altogether.

Tell me how

stinkypinky wrote: »

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

From Wikipedia

In 2013, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi formed the Black Lives Matter Network. Alicia Garza described the network as an online platform that existed to provide activists with a shared set of principles and goals. Local Black Lives Matter chapters are asked to commit to the organization's list of guiding principles but operate without a central structure or hierarchy. Alicia Garza has commented that the Network was not interested in "policing who is and who is not part of the movemen

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol.

But your evidence is to be taken as Gospel? Sure, ok then. If you say so.

What is my claim that you require evidence for? That the vast, vast majority of the police force in America are not racist or people who abuse their power?

Ok.... Do you dispute that?

Manic Moran

Tell me how wrote: »

Police Members investigated



The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

Well, if you're going to go with figures, it's worth noting that an investigation is not the same as a finding of any malfeasance, and the figure is for 30,000 decertifications over a period of time from the 1960s according to the article. If you don't put any criteria in the search function, you'll see that the first page of 1,200 of 25 names of officers decertified includes dates such as 1985, 1990 or 1992.

I have absolutely no idea what the total number of police has been in the US in the last half-century-plus, but I think there's a difference between making a comparison of a ratio over six decades and one over six weeks.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

What is my claim that you require evidence for? That the vast, vast majority of the police force in America are not racist or people who abuse their power?

Ok.... Do you dispute that?

Do you want to stick a percentage on what you consider equates to the vast vast majority so I know whether to agree with you or not.

I suspect that most police officers are not racist, but I also suspect that it only would take a few in a station of 20, 30 40 officers for it to be a problem because the culture will be to back your colleague and so that can grow to be a problem. A junior person walking in to a new station (as happened with some of the guys on the George Floyd incident) can find themselves in a position where they have to decide whether to call out their colleague, or back them.

And this is the institutional racism which is consistently referred to. And I would also say that it probably does not exist in every single police force in the country, but, evidence would indicate that it exists in enough for it to be a problem.

Tell me how

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, if you're going to go with figures, it's worth noting that an investigation is not the same as a finding of any malfeasance, and the figure is for 30,000 decertifications over a period of time from the 1960s according to the article. If you don't put any criteria in the search function, you'll see that the first page of 1,200 of 25 names of officers decertified includes dates such as 1985, 1990 or 1992.

I have absolutely no idea what the total number of police has been in the US in the last half-century-plus, but I think there's a difference between making a comparison of a ratio over six decades and one over six weeks.

And you'll also find examples of where some individuals were investigate dozens of times and still managed to retain their badges, hence views that the current system is not working as it should be.

ThunbergsAreGo

stinkypinky wrote: »

Oh definitely not. It's not like you have BLM leaders encouraging people to loot because they're owed it. Stealing HD TV's and Nike shoes is really honouring the memory of George Floyd. But sure it's grand - the businesses have insurance. There's no downtime for the businesses and the insurance companies won't be forced to up the ante, money grows on trees, everyone's a winner!

https://twitter.com/ForAmerica/status/1293247869793771521

She should be charged with inciting hatred/violence

Can you imagine the head of a Pro Life campaign said that people should loot as reparations for "all children lost" etc. They would be slaughtered.

The love in city authorities seem to have with looters is very puzzling

stinkypinky

Tell me how wrote: »

From Wikipedia

I really don't get what your point is. A key leader/organizer of BLM Chicago is actively encouraging looting and violence and there's zero pushback among her peers nor is there any accountability. All it does is make BLM appear to be a movement where lawlessness and violence is not just tolerated but encouraged.

Here's an "official press release" from BLM Chicago, so there is some hierarchy and organisational structure in place. There's a word for groups who use threats and violence to achieve political goals - it's called terrorism.

https://www.blacklivesmatterchicago.com/press-release-on-the-englewood-police-shooting/

"This morning, Mayor Lightfoot held a press conference. In a predictable and unfortunate move, she did not take this time to criticize her officers for shooting yet another Black man. Lightfoot instead spent her time attacking “looters.” The mayor clearly has not learned anything since May, and she would be wise to understand that the people will keep rising up until the CPD is abolished and our Black communities are fully invested in.

Contrary to Mayor Lightfoot’s position, Black lives are and always will be more important than downtown corporations who siphon Tax Increment Financing (T.I.F.) money, while avoiding taxes, and exploiting the labor of Black and Brown Chicagoans. These corporations have “looted” more from our communities than a few protesters ever could, yet the Mayor reserves her anger for the latter. We will remain in the streets until our demands are met. "

ThunbergsAreGo

Tell me how wrote: »

Police Members investigated



The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

Link doesn't work. Can you provide any context on what "being investigated" means? A breakdown of what it was for/the findings?

Given suprious allegations made against our own Garda, a figure of 10 percent doesnt surprise me

Tell me how

stinkypinky wrote: »

I really don't get what your point is. A key leader/organizer of BLM Chicago is actively encouraging looting and violence and there's zero pushback among her peers nor is there any accountability. All it does is make BLM appear to be a movement where lawlessness and violence is not just tolerated but encouraged.

Here's an "official press release" from BLM Chicago, so there is some hierarchy and organisational structure in place. There's a word for groups who use threats and violence to achieve political goals - it's called terrorism.

https://www.blacklivesmatterchicago.com/press-release-on-the-englewood-police-shooting/

"This morning, Mayor Lightfoot held a press conference. In a predictable and unfortunate move, she did not take this time to criticize her officers for shooting yet another Black man. Lightfoot instead spent her time attacking “looters.” The mayor clearly has not learned anything since May, and she would be wise to understand that the people will keep rising up until the CPD is abolished and our Black communities are fully invested in.

Contrary to Mayor Lightfoot’s position, Black lives are and always will be more important than downtown corporations who siphon Tax Increment Financing (T.I.F.) money, while avoiding taxes, and exploiting the labor of Black and Brown Chicagoans. These corporations have “looted” more from our communities than a few protesters ever could, yet the Mayor reserves her anger for the latter. We will remain in the streets until our demands are met. "

Yes, and by definition, MLK, John Lewis and countless others would have also been accused of being terrorists.

And interesting that in the bit you posted, they made no reference to reparations which was the claim earlier.

In terms of the 'leadership' of the BLM? The founders have patently said that there is no national structure or direction, why do you think there should be a national commentary on whatever this person said?

All police forces in the US operate as separate entities. Are you going to be looking for a national governing body to commentate on the next event in the same way?

Tell me how

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Link doesn't work. Can you provide any context on what "being investigated" means? A breakdown of what it was for/the findings?

Given suprious allegations made against our own Garda, a figure of 10 percent doesnt surprise me

Link is working for others here.

stinkypinky

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes, and by definition, MLK, John Lewis and countless others would have also been accused of being terrorists.

And interesting that in the bit you posted, they made no reference to reparations which was the claim earlier.

In terms of the 'leadership' of the BLM? The founders have patently said that there is no national structure or direction, why do you think there should be a national commentary on whatever this person said?

All police forces in the US operate as separate entities. Are you going to be looking for a national governing body to commentate on the next event in the same way?

It's an older press release - the point was to show there is some structure to the organisation and if they wanted to condemn the encouragement of looting, BLM Chicago could have easily done so. In the press release I posted they were encouraging looting already so I won't hold my breath.

Your questions don't make much sense to me I'm afraid, if BLM Chicago can release a press statement encouraging looting threatening the Mayor they can surely release one walking back the latest comments from one of their key organizers. Of course that's never going to happen but we can continue pretending that's down to nefarious reasons like their being no real leadership.

To entertain the silly semantic style of arguing - if there was an incident in Chicago concerning the police, the Chicago PD would release a statement. There's no reason BLM Chicago can't do the same - their previous press releases were printed in national and local media.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/black-lives-matter-on-chicago-looting-black-lives-more-important-than-downtown-corporations/2320685/

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/8/10/21362612/black-lives-matter-lori-lightfoot-police-shooting-englewood-looting

We can just stop pussyfooting around - you think that the looting and violence is justified and are trying to muddy the waters and hide your true feelings using meaningless semantics and whataboutery. For me that puts on the crazy end of the scale politically so I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion.

Given the disproportionate amount of Traveller's jailed and the general public's perception of them, should it be ok to have "Traveller's Lives Matter" scrawled on O'Connell Street?

Das Reich

We have no topic about this here on boards? Didn't see anything on media about.

https://www.kold.com/2020/08/12/north-carolina-man-shot-killed-year-old-neighbor-while-playing-his-yard-police-say/

Spiderman0081

Das Reich wrote: »

We have no topic about this here on boards? Didn't see amything on media about.

https://www.kold.com/2020/08/12/north-carolina-man-shot-killed-year-old-neighbor-while-playing-his-yard-police-say/

RTÉ are about to do a story on that. They are also preparing a story on all the other murders of children committed recently by blm protestors. They are going to include a piece on David Dorn also. From what I understand rte are preparing a follow up piece on the amount of colored people who have been seriously injured while defending their property and the amount of businesses owned by ethnic minorities that have been destroyed by blm protestors. It’s coming soon

Das Reich

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

RTÉ are about to do a story on that. They are also preparing a story on all the other murders of children committed recently by blm protestors. They are going to include a piece on David Dorn also. From what I understand rte are preparing a follow up piece on the amount of colored people who have been seriously injured while defending their property and the amount of businesses owned by ethnic minorities that have been destroyed by blm protestors. It’s coming soon

In fairness I am not Irish and not follow much Irish media I only read some newspapers in the morning, but no word about it on media from other countries.

The Unbearables

Oh look those scummy cops at it again.

"Defuuuuuuund the pigs mannnnnnnn"

https://news.sky.com/story/policewoman-saves-man-from-oncoming-train-after-his-wheelchair-got-stuck-on-tracks-12048174

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain how this is the case?

Also, in case you don't realise it, Asians don't quite have the same history in the US as the Black community does. As shown in Hong Kong, Asians are more than capable of activism when they feel they are being oppressed, where is the evidence that they have in any way a comparable experience as a community?

The difference is they had a legitimate cause, BLM are going of made up and manipulated nonsense, that black people are being relentlessly slaughtered in the streets unjustly by a police force like something out of mad max, which of course is horse ****.

As for Asians they are a minority that used to have a hard time, but rather than sit there crying and complaining about how unfair life is they grafted there way to the top, whats the difference? there culture and thats just a fact.

Rather than go around wearing there pants around there ankles pretending to be gangster and then being absolutely shocked when the police stop them, they instead worked low end jobs saved and got a college education and grafted to the top, guess the big bad white man musta been sleeping we never got to keep the asians down!

Hell look at Irish people back in the day we basically had to fight the slaves for the **** jobs now look at how well irish people do there, is that our skin color doing all that or is that our culture and hard work? we all know which.

But so long as BLM are around and the army of posh white SJW to fight the good fight on there behalf alot of black people will fall in the trap of they are some sort of victim for ever! and cant succeed cause the "system" is against them which is bull****

Asians are the uncomfortable truth for BLM followers because they should it can be done no problem only requires hard work, and the opportunities are there for everyone if they are WILLING to work for it.

Overheal

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Asians prove that a good family structure and high expectations within that structure are all that matter.

Must have been great never having to live through a period of diaspora where those family structures were ripped apart and sold off piecemeal.

Das Reich

Overheal wrote: »

Must have been great never having to live through a period of diaspora where those family structures were ripped apart and sold off piecemeal.

What about the Japanese in Brazil that emigrated 100 years ago. They become the richest ethnicity in the country in just few decades proven that hard work is great. Some other people arrived way before were just making fun of those immigrants, mocking and saying "you don't need work hard, Brazil is rich country not like Europe or Japan". I bet Europeans immigrants that went to USA some hundreds years ago were also being mocked by some people that arrived centuries early with English language as mother tongue.

Biker79

Irish people who arrived to the US in the middle of the 19th century were materially poorer with a lower life expectancy than slaves in the southern states - 19 vs 36.

A few generations later they are among the highest income households, of any group.

A similar trajectory applies to other immigrant groups, as mentioned, such as East Asians.

I wonder what the Irish escaping the famine, or European jewish people escaping mass murder, would have thought about white privilege ?

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Biker79 wrote: »

Irish people who arrived to the US in the middle of the 19th century were materially poorer with a lower life expectancy than slaves in the southern states - 19 vs 36.

A few generations later they are among the highest income households, of any group.

A similar trajectory applies to other immigrant groups, as mentioned, such as East Asians.

I wonder what the Irish escaping the famine, or European jewish people escaping mass murder, would have thought about white privilege ?

You could use your same points as proof of systemic racism.

Biker79

Amari Salty Highway wrote: »

You could use your same points as proof of systemic racism.

You are right - Irish people suffered terrible discrimination. So did Chinese people.

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/no-irish-need-apply-signs-vilified-irish-ancestors

corks finest

Aborted lives matter

Tell me how

Biker79 wrote: »

Irish people who arrived to the US in the middle of the 19th century were materially poorer with a lower life expectancy than slaves in the southern states - 19 vs 36.

A few generations later they are among the highest income households, of any group.

A similar trajectory applies to other immigrant groups, as mentioned, such as East Asians.

I wonder what the Irish escaping the famine, or European jewish people escaping mass murder, would have thought about white privilege ?

None of these communities had to deal with a period of hundreds of years of being slaves and then having to go through Jim Crow era laws, an expanding prison system and redlining in an effort to keep them down.

Check out how the Irish were treated and how they were viewed when the arrived and for decades after that. Hope people who want to use them as an example keep that in mind in the threads about immigration and multiculturalism.