BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Carfacemandog

African Americans were quickly bettering their lot in the decades after the civil war too, but then came the Jim Crow laws and the huge surge in popularity of the KKK (who didn't just go about lynching people etc as some may think, but also controlled legislature and had monopolies in law enforcement etc in many areas) which led to decades of enforced exclusion of black people from greater society, and backlash/destruction of any successes they had - one such example being the Tulsa Massacre, in which the 'black wall street' was burned to the ground and eradicated.

It is also easy to see why this backlash to Reconstruction happened, and did so most strongly in states that had previously embraced slavery. One white landowner might have a dozen or more slaves, meaning once those now-former slaves were given the right to vote, they began voting in black representatives and holding huge advantages on this front. In the 1870s, 80s and even 90s there were numerous black House members, mayors, and Mississippi (one of the absolute key slavery hotspots) even had two black Senators over most of a 15 year period 1869-81, though not at the same time. This led to an anxiety amongst white people, many formerly in favour of slavery, that they would become second class citizens and have their autonomy taken away from them - as projection typically plays a huge role in these issues. White Americans quite successfully focused on the disenfranchisement of black people in the US in no small part because of this, and almost all of the same confederate statues which have gained attention in recent months were erected in this era to remind people of the social order, and black people of 'their place'.

Even when black people succeeded in spite of segregation where they built their own communities and economy of sorts - resentment of this led to it being forcibly ripped away from them, of which Tulsa is perhaps the biggest but far from the only example. One just needs to look at the Red Summer of 1919 for dozens more, something which is often glossed over in American history on either side of the left/right political debate (many white Americans only even found out about Tulsa because of a superhero TV show last year too) - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer

Had the post Civil War Reconstruction era not ended in a fashion that has some echoes in the recent years of US politics, the trajectory of black people in the US may well have been entirely different.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

Must have been great never having to live through a period of diaspora where those family structures were ripped apart and sold off piecemeal.

Don't forget it was other Africans who sold them into slavery , a fact lots of lefties ignore . No black family in America has lived through slavery , it's like me blaming all my troubles on the potatoe famine

kildare lad

Biker79 wrote: »

Irish people who arrived to the US in the middle of the 19th century were materially poorer with a lower life expectancy than slaves in the southern states - 19 vs 36.

A few generations later they are among the highest income households, of any group.

A similar trajectory applies to other immigrant groups, as mentioned, such as East Asians.

I wonder what the Irish escaping the famine, or European jewish people escaping mass murder, would have thought about white privilege ?

Ya don't even have to go back that far , my grandparents grew up under British occupation they lived on small farms and were working since they could walk , no car , no electricity, no money , both my parents had no TV's growing up and both were out working on farms when they were young as well , they both emigrated to England and worked two jobs to survive and got nothing of no one , and you compare it to our recent migrants from Africa who got everything handed to them on a plate since they got here. White privilege my ass

Tell me how

kildare lad wrote: »

Ya don't even have to go back that far , my grandparents grew up under British occupation they lived on small farms and were working since they could walk , no car , no electricity, no money , both my parents had no TV's growing up and both were out working on farms when they were young as well , they both emigrated to England and worked two jobs to survive and got nothing of no one , and you compare it to our recent migrants from Africa who got everything handed to them on a plate since they got here. White privilege my ass

The fact that 'having no TV growing up' is one of the points you make to suggest hardship should in and of itself be an example that you are over stretching here.

No one is saying all white people have it easy. They most definitely don't. Everyone knows the stories of the 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish' signs. I have posted here about the experience of Irish people when they came to the US first and how they were treated.
But, in the environments where the unrest leading to BLM has originated, blacks experience was that they were targeted/suspected of something or treated differently just because of their skin colour and the fact that whites by and large, weren't treated in this manner was, and still is a privilege. It doesn't mean and never has that everything is handed to every white person.

On the subject of immigrants having everything handed to them? If you were in a situation where you were given a plate of rice and a potato for an evening meal and locked out of the kitchen from getting water or food for your baby until the morning, would you feel everything had been handed to you?

And as you know, many of the notable people who talk about being kind to immigrants are the same people who speak up for working class people in Ireland, (white people) and they are told to shut up on that matter also.
Lets be honest a lot of people complaining about others getting support is simply because they feel they themselves has no one standing up for them.

Ush1

Overheal wrote: »

Must have been great never having to live through a period of diaspora where those family structures were ripped apart and sold off piecemeal.

You think Asians haven't experienced slavery or genocide?

kildare lad

Ush1 wrote: »

You think Asians haven't experienced slavery or genocide?

Blacks just have the monoply on hardship these days .

Das Reich

kildare lad wrote: »

Don't forget it was other Africans who sold them into slavery , a fact lots of lefties ignore . No black family in America has lived through slavery , it's like me blaming all my troubles on the potatoe famine

They also descent from slave owner, having on average 25% of their dna from Europe. About 1 third of them have European ydna. So basically they carry the genes of traders and owners. And most whites in USA descent from Europeans arrived there when the slavery was finish. And if not by the whites it would still exist slavery in Africa.

Tell me how

Ush1 wrote: »

You think Asians haven't experienced slavery or genocide?

Some Asians are experiencing persecution right now.

kildare lad wrote: »

Blacks just have the monoply on hardship these days .

Nope. But why don't you start a thread calling for support for the Uighurs in China.

Das Reich wrote: »

They also descent from slave owner, having on average 25% of their dna from Europe. About 1 third of them have European ydna. So basically they carry the genes of traders and owners. And most whites in USA descent from Europeans arrived there when the slavery was finish. And if not by the whites it would still exist slavery in Africa.

The last person said to have been a slave in the US died in 1971.

kildare lad

Das Reich wrote: »

They also descent from slave owner, having on average 25% of their dna from Europe. About 1 third of them have European ydna. So basically they carry the genes of traders and owners. And most whites in USA descent from Europeans arrived there when the slavery was finish. And if not by the whites it would still exist slavery in Africa.

There's still plenty of slavery still going on in Africa today , you just don't hear about it because it's other blacks doing it . It doesn't fit SJW narrative.

https://qz.com/africa/1333946/global-slavery-index-africa-has-the-highest-rate-of-modern-day-slavery-in-the-world/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-africa-slavery-nigeria-idUSKCN1UX1NF

Das Reich

Tell me how wrote: »

The last person said to have been a slave in the US died in 1971.

Brazil was the last country to abolish slavery in America, way after USA, but when doing so in 1888 it had 130.000 slaves out of 10 million people (58% of them declaring being black at the time) so 1,3% of the population. And all of those had more than 38 years old as every black born after 1850 were free. So last died in early 1900 as the the time the life expectancy were about 45 years old.

Again, USA abolished way before and the slavery population was much smaller, I doubt last slave died in 1971.

Cupatae

Overheal wrote: »

Must have been great never having to live through a period of diaspora where those family structures were ripped apart and sold off piecemeal.

Ahh that's it yeah ,Chalk any modern day black problem down to slavery nearly 200 years ago,

Can I chalk all my problems today down to English oppression of Irish people years ago or does this phenomenon only apply to black people ?

If only people like ye had as many solutions as ye do excuses.

The ironic thing is people like yourself only enable the current situation to continue ye do more harm than good by driving this victim narrative.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

None of these communities had to deal with a period of hundreds of years of being slaves and then having to go through Jim Crow era laws, an expanding prison system and redlining in an effort to keep them down.

Check out how the Irish were treated and how they were viewed when the arrived and for decades after that. Hope people who want to use them as an example keep that in mind in the threads about immigration and multiculturalism.

Really the Irish didn't have any of that ? Haha you might want to look again, I'm afraid your attempt to monopolize victim hood for the black community is gonna fail epically,

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Really the Irish didn't have any of that ? Haha you might want to look again, I'm afraid your attempt to monopolize victim hood for the black community is gonna fail epically,

I already made the point that the Irish did suffer persecution....
Just because they did, those that mean that black people didn't suffer or continue to suffer in some ways?

Who do you think is being persecuted in the world today? What are you doing to help them?
Or is it all No! No! No

kildare lad

Tell me how wrote: »

I already made the point that the Irish did suffer persecution....
Just because they did, those that mean that black people didn't suffer or continue to suffer in some ways?

Who do you think is being persecuted in the world today? What are you doing to help them?
Or is it all No! No! No

Maybe if black people stopped killing each other you could take BLM a bit more seriously

kildare lad

Tell me how wrote: »

I already made the point that the Irish did suffer persecution....
Just because they did, those that mean that black people didn't suffer or continue to suffer in some ways?

Who do you think is being persecuted in the world today? What are you doing to help them?
Or is it all No! No! No

Google Chicago shootings every Monday evening and you'll see how many black people are shot every weekend over there , it's not whites shooting them either , theyve no problem presecuting themselves without whitey doing anything . Until they sort out their toxic culture of glorifying gangs , drugs , bitches and guns , young black men will continue to die even if there wasn't 1 racist cop in the states

Tell me how

kildare lad wrote: »

Maybe if black people stopped killing each other you could take BLM a bit more seriously

kildare lad wrote: »

Google Chicago shootings every Monday evening and you'll see how many black people are shot every weekend over there , it's not whites shooting them either , theyve no problem presecuting themselves without whitey doing anything . Until they sort out their toxic culture of glorifying gangs , drugs , bitches and guns , young black men will continue to die even if there wasn't 1 racist cop in the states

Sure look lads if you want to take that approach there should be no police because the community should stop everything from happening.

Old Lady from Blanchardstown rings the Gardai after her house was broken in to. Sure they aren't going to go do anything while there is a lad from a gang in Mulhuddart. That's her problem.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

I already made the point that the Irish did suffer persecution....
Just because they did, those that mean that black people didn't suffer or continue to suffer in some ways?

Who do you think is being persecuted in the world today? What are you doing to help them?
Or is it all No! No! No

Who's being persecuted ? Are we still talking about America ? Have they tried helping themselves ?

Are you of the belief that the majority of black people are being held back by the white man and being murdered on the streets in mass by police officers ?

What are BLM in the UK whinging about lmao they couldn't have it better this movement is a fad for the latte drinkers and it ll pass and have 0 impact because it's pure and utter nonsense once you get beyond the headlines.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Who's being persecuted ? Are we still talking about America ? Have they tried helping themselves ?

Are you of the belief that the majority of black people are being held back by the white man and being murdered on the streets in mass by police officers ?

What are BLM in the UK whinging about lmao they couldn't have it better this movement is a fad for the latte drinkers and it ll pass and have 0 impact because it's pure and utter nonsense once you get beyond the headlines.

How many people do you think the police should be able to murder through inappropriate behaviour before calls for change would be warranted?

Why are you so against calls for change in this way?

As before, I bet your type of statements were used by opponents to the abolition of slavery, the granting of voting rights to blacks and for the removal of desegregation.
All the activists for those started from a position where they were told there was no need, point or way to change. They all were ultimately successful in seeing that change come about.

kildare lad

Tell me how wrote: »

Sure look lads if you want to take that approach there should be no police because the community should stop everything from happening.

Old Lady from Blanchardstown rings the Gardai after her house was broken in to. Sure they aren't going to go do anything while there is a lad from a gang in Mulhuddart. That's her problem.

There's a difference between a woman house getting broken into and 30 or 40 people getting shot every weekend . But sure it's the white man's fault . Blacks aren't responsible for their actions , its all from slavery 200 years ago

Tell me how

kildare lad wrote: »

There's a difference between a woman house getting broken into and 30 or 40 people getting shot every weekend . But sure it's the white man's fault . Blacks aren't responsible for their actions , its all from slavery 200 years ago

Hence the calls to take money from the police budgets and put money in to education, social outlets and job opportunities to give people alternative options than hanging out on corners or joining gangs.

The idea of giving police forces more and more money hasn't worked has it?

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

How many people do you think the police should be able to murder through inappropriate behaviour before calls for change would be warranted?

Why are you so against calls for change in this way?

As before, I bet your type of statements were used by opponents to the abolition of slavery, the granting of voting rights to blacks and for the removal of desegregation.
All the activists for those started from a position where they were told there was no need, point or way to change. They all were ultimately successful in seeing that change come about.

That's the problem the people calling for desegregation had a legitimate cause , today they don't, murder is never acceptable why do you gloss of the fact that black people commit the most amount of violent crimes and they are a minority , but happily focus on defunding all police , why do you blame everyone and everything but black people for black people problems ?

Why are they always the ultimate victims ? And why is it always rich white posh kids fighting the good fight...as I said this is a fad and it ll have 0 impact because it's hollow and baseless,

the foundation for all this is gf "murder" that BLM injected racism into and spun it completely out of context along with leftist media, they made the police look like ruthless monsters that just beset this man randomly and killed him because he was black, but apon the full video it's a different story. And the autopsy to boot.

Can you see how why most rational people would be sceptical of a shady movement as BLM that at it's core supports black surpemacy and racism against white people.

Bonniedog

Tell me how wrote: »

Hence the calls to take money from the police budgets and put money in to education, social outlets and job opportunities to give people alternative options than hanging out on corners or joining gangs.

The idea of giving police forces more and more money hasn't worked has it?

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there is a solution to any social problem. There is not. The best is outcome is containment.

America is a violent society and always has been for various historical reasons. Getting rid of cops is only going to make that worse.

By the way, 80% of those killed by cops are armed and threatening. That is not murder. And numbers pale into insignificance compared to numbers killed by criminals.

If US was as repressive as the left claims, there would be thousands of crims killed and less crims to murder people. Left is in no position to be lecturing anyone about murder given its horrific past leading to over 100 million deaths.

Montage of Feck

**** it, I think I'm just going to go full on misanthrope and say no lives matter.

Tell me how

Bonniedog wrote: »

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there is a solution to any social problem. There is not. The best is outcome is containment.

America is a violent society and always has been for various historical reasons. Getting rid of cops is only going to make that worse.

By the way, 80% of those killed by cops are armed and threatening. That is not murder. And numbers pale into insignificance compared to numbers killed by criminals.

If US was as repressive as the left claims, there would be thousands of crims killed and less crims to murder people. Left is in no position to be lecturing anyone about murder given its horrific past leading to over 100 million deaths.

If some of the early humans had your aptitude for meeting challenges, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would have died off tens of thousands of years ago. Thankfully people see issues and think of solutions instead of 'saying there is no point'.

Laughable that 20% of people being killed by cops while they were unarmed or nonthreatening seems acceptable to you.

And this 'left' leading to 100M deaths? WTF sort of nonsense is that?
What is it about people saying that all people are entitled to be treated equally and fairly could be said to likely leading to 100M deaths?

Cupatae

Bonniedog wrote: »

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there is a solution to any social problem. There is not. The best is outcome is containment.

America is a violent society and always has been for various historical reasons. Getting rid of cops is only going to make that worse.

By the way, 80% of those killed by cops are armed and threatening. That is not murder. And numbers pale into insignificance compared to numbers killed by criminals.

If US was as repressive as the left claims, there would be thousands of crims killed and less crims to murder people. Left is in no position to be lecturing anyone about murder given its horrific past leading to over 100 million deaths.

Black on black crime is high, black people commit the highest amounts of violent crime despite being the minority....

The genius solution to all this and to help the black community according to the do gooders, and mostly white supports of blm on boards...

Defund the police... Less police...

You honestly couldn't make it up lol

What could possibly go wrong with such a genius plan lol

Bonniedog

Tell me how wrote: »

If some of the early humans had your aptitude for meeting challenges, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would have died off tens of thousands of years ago. Thankfully people see issues and think of solutions instead of 'saying there is no point'.

Laughable that 20% of people being killed by cops while they were unarmed or nonthreatening seems acceptable to you.

And this 'left' leading to 100M deaths? WTF sort of nonsense is that?
What is it about people saying that all people are entitled to be treated equally and fairly could be said to likely leading to 100M deaths?

Early humans killed off all threats to their survival. Had they tried to empathise with the deviants among them, we would not be here. Order not anarchy creates the conditions of freedom and tolerance.

WTF the left killing over 100 million people has to do with it, is that this is what happens when an ideology attempts to impose things on human nature that don't fit.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

If some of the early humans had your aptitude for meeting challenges, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would have died off tens of thousands of years ago. Thankfully people see issues and think of solutions instead of 'saying there is no point'.

Laughable that 20% of people being killed by cops while they were unarmed or nonthreatening seems acceptable to you.

And this 'left' leading to 100M deaths? WTF sort of nonsense is that?
What is it about people saying that all people are entitled to be treated equally and fairly could be said to likely leading to 100M deaths?

If the early humans had your attitude they we d have been gone day one due to no Starbucks or wifi , you ve put up nothing but strawman arguments attempted to monopolize victim hood for black people.

Out of curiosity what % of black people problems are caused by themselves.. how much responsibility should they hold for there own situation in your opinion? Gimme some examples

Cupatae

Bonniedog wrote: »

Early humans killed off all threats to their survival. Had they tried to empathise with the deviants among them, we would not be here. Order not anarchy creates the conditions of freedom and tolerance.

WTF the left killing over 100 million people has to do with it, is that this is what happens when an ideology attempts to impose things on human nature that don't fit.

They d have protested any saber tooth and or wolf attacks ! You d prob have had animal rights activests tryna defend the saber tooth's haha

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Black on black crime is high, black people commit the highest amounts of violent crime despite being the minority....

The genius solution to all this and to help the black community according to the do gooders, and mostly white supports of blm on boards...

Defund the police... Less police...

You honestly couldn't make it up lol

What could possibly go wrong with such a genius plan lol

No offense, but given the amount of time you have spent on this discussion, I'm now thinking you just don't have the capacity to understand it?

I'll try it this way.

A society needs teachers, social support workers and police.
In this society, things have evolved so that now, police get more and more money, leading to less and less for the others and ultimately those services can't be provided to the level the society needs.
As a consequence, some people don't receive appropriate education or support including for mental health issues and so they start to turn to crime.
This radical idea, (it isn't that radical) is to use money to provide the services to help people so that they are given the tools and opportunity to lead law abiding fulfilling lives.
More social support workers would also mean less need for police to do welfare checks and deal with those suffering with mental health issues which surely be better for the police also.

Why are you against the above concept?

Also, why is it you use a term like 'do gooders' like it is an insult? Is that what you see anyone who tries to help others? Have you ever tried to do anything for anyone who wasn't yourself?

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

If the early humans had your attitude they we d have been gone day one due to no Starbucks or wifi , you ve put up nothing but strawman arguments attempted to monopolize victim hood for black people.

Out of curiosity what % of black people problems are caused by themselves.. how much responsibility should they hold for there own situation in your opinion? Gimme some examples

I believe that black people will be responsible for their problems in the same proportion of white people, Asian people and any other race you care to mention. Because human nature is consistent across races?

What sort of examples are you looking for?