BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Tell me how

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Yes clear an obvious racism should be covered but not headlines jumping to immediate conclusions just because an interaction has been between 2 people of different races. Different races can have negative interactions for reasons other then racism.

How many examples are there where it is definitively concluded that a racial element was the reason something occurred which turned out to be false?

I'm talking where they said 'It happened for this reason' as opposed to 'investigators are exploring if race played a factor' or similar.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

It appears to have occurred because of the institutional practice to use excessive violence against people of colour.

Now, the question is, if there is an institutional practice to use excessive violence against people of colour, is there a racial element to the situation?

What do you think?

Was it racially motivated its a yes or no answer and if the answers yes can you provide proof of this?

Specifically George Floyds death was it racially motivated murder?

iebamm2580

Tell me how wrote: »

How many examples are there where it is definitively concluded that a racial element was the reason something occurred which turned out to be false?

I'm talking where they said 'It happened for this reason' as opposed to 'investigators are exploring if race played a factor' or similar.

None of that should be in headlines unless its conclusive, everything is immediate racism now if interactions are negative between 2 different races theses days and its simply not always the case.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Quite the imagination you have there,

To qoute the people you support directly:

"What Defunding the Police Really Means
July 6, 2020
We know that police don’t keep us safe — and as long as we continue to pump money into our corrupt criminal justice system at the expense of housing, health, and education investments — we will never be truly safe."

More specifically the bold point, makes it pretty clear there intentions and reasoning.. these are the people you support, less police allows scumbags like that lad that shot that 5 yr old a better chance at getting away with said crime...

You dont have to like that but its an unfortunate consequence of what you are asking for and the ideology that you support, you want less police because of a few bad cops. Most cops are good but you want to punish the the entire force collectively for the sins of a few.

Your hilarious. You say that I have an imagination after I give a clear example and ask for your opinion on it.

And then you say 'the bold point makes it pretty clear' when it does nothing of the sort. All it does is state what they believe to be a fact based on experience after experience after experience.

And again, don't imply that I want less police like I haven't just outlined, in the post you were responding to, why and how that could work and has nothing got to do with punishing a force because of some of their members but trying to tweak a force to best meet the needs for which it is there for.

Tell me how

iebamm2580 wrote: »

None of that should be in headlines unless its conclusive, everything is immediate racism now if interactions are negative between 2 different races theses days and its simply not always the case.

Do you think that racial behaviour can happen without it being conclusive?

If so, do you agree that consistently not referring to such motivation in news reports could serve to have the person under attack feel like their attacker was being protected.

For example, the case of the lady being pushed in to the canal. Should it have been mentioned that that event had a racial element to it?

Or how about the case of Ahmaud Arbery? Do you believe there was not a racial element to that murder?

iebamm2580

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that racial behaviour can happen without it being conclusive?

If so, do you agree that consistently not referring to such motivation in news reports could serve to have the person under attack feel like their attacker was being protected.

For example, the case of the lady being pushed in to the canal. Should it have been mentioned that that event had a racial element to it?

Or how about the case of Ahmaud Arbery? Do you believe there was not a racial element to that murder?

Simply yes some behavior may be seen as racist when in fact it wasn't.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Your hilarious. You say that I have an imagination after I give a clear example and ask for your opinion on it.

And then you say 'the bold point makes it pretty clear' when it does nothing of the sort. All it does is state what they believe to be a fact based on experience after experience after experience.

And again, don't imply that I want less police like I haven't just outlined, in the post you were responding to, why and how that could work and has nothing got to do with punishing a force because of some of their members but trying to tweak a force to best meet the needs for which it is there for.

You seem to be squirming abit now, you've went from defunding the police to "we'll just tweek it a little",

The bold statement is a direct quote from BLM, the group in which you ve been going to bat for repeatedly as the self proclaimed most active defender of it on this thread.

Now all of a sudden you don't agree with them make up your mind.

Seeing 5 yr olds get shot in the head by these ****in animal criminals and you want less police? ill stick to what ive always said, more police..way more funding and way higher levels of training is whats needed.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

You seem to be squirming abit now, you've went from defunding the police to "we'll just tweek it a little",

The bold statement is a direct quote from BLM, the group in which you ve been going to bat for repeatedly as the self proclaimed most active defender of it on this thread.

Now all of a sudden you don't agree with them make up your mind.

Seeing 5 yr olds get shot in the head by these ****in animal criminals and you want less police? ill stick to what ive always said, more police..way more funding and way higher levels of training is whats needed.

Einstein didn't actually say it, but you get the point.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Einstein didn't actually say it, but you get the point.

Yeah im fairly sure auld Einstein wasnt talking about a minority that made up 13% of the population and had well over 50% of all violent crimes, crying out for less police.:rolleyes:

But your clearly missing the point in order to get a better police force you dont need less you need more, you arent going to achieve a better trained police force with less funding, this should be painfully obvious.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Yeah im fairly sure auld Einstein wasnt talking about a minority that made up 13% of the population and had well over 50% of all violent crimes, crying out for less police.:rolleyes:

Bless you. I, and others have tried, you, just, don't, get, it.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Bless you. I, and others have tried, you, just, don't, get, it.

Dont bless me bless the poor souls in america should your kind and the likes with similar ideology ever get what they are asking for!

You'd no answer for that little statistic tho did ya you and others never do it just shoots the whole show down when u lay out the bare truth!

Overheal

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

A 5 year old named Cannon Hinnant was playing on his bicycle in North Carolina on 11th August when a 25 year old named Darius Sessums walked up to him , produced a gun and shot the child in the head at point blank distance.

He was due to start kindergarten last Monday

The large mainstream media in the United states have completely ignored this story.

The child was white. The murderer was black

Not true at all. Why do you lie?

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Dont bless me bless the poor souls in america should your kind and the likes with similar ideology ever get what they are asking for!

You'd no answer for that little statistic tho did ya you and others never do it just shoots the whole show down when u lay out the bare truth!

See, this is the proof that you just don't get it.

It has repeatedly been pointed out that part of the reason so many black people are involved in crime is because at this point, the communities, and structures in which they live and grow up funnel them towards such activity with less opportunities to avoid it and a lot of expectation that this is where they are headed.

Some of us are looking at this and saying, how do you break the circle, you are looking at like you just need more people to arrest them like that practice isn't part of the reason that such cycles exist and continue

(Man= removed from home, = family dynamic breaks down = no positive example to son= son joins gang for support, to feel a connection, and the cycle repeats. Irrespective of whether the man is convicted or not as can be arraigned for several months/years before trial in cases)

I have no problem in saying that the black people in gangs committing the crimes are criminals and murders when they do so. And I have no problem in saying that within some communities, that they are glorified and seen as heroes. We've all seen the Wire. It was lauded because of how much it reflected real life. And much like what was shown in the Wire, once people are in the game, they rarely come out of it or start to behave, no matter how many police are in front of them or how often they are arrested. And no, I am not basing my views and what to do on a TV show, just giving an example.

And your comment above that 'I've no answer for a statistic' or I am squirming tells me you see what we are doing here as a battle, and that you feel the important thing is that you are proven right. I don't care what you feel, whether you think you have 'won' or whatever it is that's going on in your head. The current system hasn't worked, that is indisputable, so we just admit that but say we want more of it as you are doing, or try to come up with ideas that might ultimately improve a society.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

See, this is the proof that you just don't get it.

It has repeatedly been pointed out that part of the reason so many black people are involved in crime is because at this point, the communities, and structures in which they live and grow up funnel them towards such activity with less opportunities to avoid it and a lot of expectation that this is where they are headed.

Some of us are looking at this and saying, how do you break the circle, you are looking at like you just need more people to arrest them like that practice isn't part of the reason that such cycles exist and continue

(Man= removed from home, = family dynamic breaks down = no positive example to son= son joins gang for support, to feel a connection, and the cycle repeats. Irrespective of whether the man is convicted or not as can be arraigned for several months/years before trial in cases)

I have no problem in saying that the black people in gangs committing the crimes are criminals and murders when they do so. And I have no problem in saying that within some communities, that they are glorified and seen as heroes. We've all seen the Wire. It was lauded because of how much it reflected real life. And much like what was shown in the Wire, once people are in the game, they rarely come out of it or start to behave, no matter how many police are in front of them or how often they are arrested. And no, I am not basing my views and what to do on a TV show, just giving an example.

And your comment above that 'I've no answer for a statistic' or I am squirming tells me you see what we are doing here as a battle, and that you feel the important thing is that you are proven right. I don't care what you feel, whether you think you have 'won' or whatever it is that's going on in your head. The current system hasn't worked, that is indisputable, so we just admit that but say we want more of it as you are doing, or try to come up with ideas that might ultimately improve a society.

You'll never break the cycle because you are looking externally for the source, everything from white privilege to the system to the police is being blamed for why the black community has a disproportionate amount of crime, hell some people are tryna go back 200 years ago and blame slavery for todays problems.

The one thing i never see you or the other two defenders of BLM address is the cultural problem in the black community and when its all said and done thats what it boils down to as the root cause, personal choice and cultural influence.

Its the reason why other minorities such as Asians are so successful...

But so long as they keep believing that theirs this mythical entity out there in the world working in the shadows to hold them back they ll stay right where they are because they ll never address the true cause.

Whats the difference between the Asian community and the black community?

When you get right down too it there just looking for a scape goat, and race really isnt the deciding factor merely the must readily available one to blame in a long list of issues.

Ironically enough people like you only help to enable the belief that its the system and everything else thats to blame for there woes and in turn your doing more harm than good.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

You'll never break the cycle because you are looking externally for the source, everything from white privilege to the system to the police is being blamed for why the black community has a disproportionate amount of crime, hell some people are tryna go back 200 years ago and blame slavery for todays problems.

So that's it then. Never going to improve. In spite of where the human race or its societies have been, through periods of human sacrifice, gladiators killing each others for sport, slavery, this is the point of no return? Really? Really really?

Cupatae wrote: »

The one thing i never see you or the other two defenders of BLM address is the cultural problem in the black community and when its all said and done thats what it boils down to as the root cause, personal choice and cultural influence.

I just referred to this, in detail, in my previous post.

Cupatae wrote: »

Y
Its the reason why other minorities such as Asians are so successful...

But so long as they keep believing that theirs this mythical entity out there in the world working in the shadows to hold them back they ll stay right where they are because they ll never address the true cause.

Whats the difference between the Asian community and the black community?

Probably have something to do with the fact that they weren't targeted in the same way and came from a country which was demonstrably successful and exotic.

Not to mention that the first several hundred years of their experience in the US was not in the form of mass slavery or that pretty much immediately after slavery was abolished, prison reform happened leading to the widespread incarceration of many black people, who as part of their sentence were put working on chain gangs.

But hey, they weren't slaves then, they were convicts.

Cupatae wrote: »

When you get right down too it there just looking for a scape goat, and race really isnt the deciding factor merely the must readily available one to blame in a long list of issues.

Ironically enough people like you only help to enable the belief that its the system and everything else thats to blame for there woes and in turn your doing more harm than good.

You cannot ignore the reality of repeated and documented events of excessive abuse by police on black people. That is irrefutable. You don't even want to try to change that.
A wise person might say, ok, lets remove all these things which are distracting from the fact that black people are just culturally predisposed to be criminals so that there is no confusion about it. But no, you don't even want to do that.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

So that's it then. Never going to improve. In spite of where the human race or its societies have been, through periods of human sacrifice, gladiators killing each others for sport, slavery, this is the point of no return? Really? Really really?




I just referred to this, in detail, in my previous post.



Probably have something to do with the fact that they weren't targeted in the same way and came from a country which was demonstrably successful and exotic.

Not to mention that the first several hundred years of their experience in the US was not in the form of mass slavery or that pretty much immediately after slavery was abolished, prison reform happened leading to the widespread incarceration of many black people, who as part of their sentence were put working on chain gangs.

But hey, they weren't slaves then, they were convicts.



You cannot ignore the reality of repeated and documented events of excessive abuse by police on black people. That is irrefutable. You don't even want to try to change that.
A wise person might say, ok, lets remove all these things which are distracting from the fact that black people are just culturally predisposed to be criminals so that there is no confusion about it. But no, you don't even want to do that.

Do you just read the first 3 worlds of what i type and then ramble a response? read the rest of the sentence before replying. Literally the rest of that sentence answered your ramble.


No you didnt you literally blame everything else bar the black community for the black communities current situation. You and the other 2 make absolute victims out of the black community...going by you no has had a hard time in the US only the blacks, you d do well to read up about the Irish in the US before implying the black community were the only ones that had a struggle.. you'd be embarrassed by your excuses that your using for the black community and thats what they are flat out excuses.

I actually find it sickening how people like you make absolute victims out of these people,that the whole US is against em, you imply the police regularly go out and butcher these people in the streets at random, like they are the only race being killed, and its always unjustly, when this isnt the case at all.

In short your attempts at monopolizing victim hood and the pity party for the black community is ultimately doing them a disservice, and frankly insulting to every other race or community that has struggled.

Its basically a narrative of lies and deception to gain ground by playing the victim.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Do you just read the first 3 worlds of what i type and then ramble a response? read the rest of the sentence before replying. Literally the rest of that sentence answered your ramble.


No you didnt you literally blame everything else bar the black community for the black communities current situation. You and the other 2 make absolute victims out of the black community...going by you no has had a hard time in the US only the blacks, you d do well to read up about the Irish in the US before implying the black community were the only ones that had a struggle.. you'd be embarrassed by your excuses that your using for the black community and thats what they are flat out excuses.

I actually find it sickening how people like you make absolute victims out of these people,that the whole US is against em, you imply the police regularly go out and butcher these people in the streets at random, like they are the only race being killed, and its always unjustly, when this isnt the case at all.

In short your attempts at monopolizing victim hood and the pity party for the black community is ultimately doing them a disservice, and frankly insulting to every other race or community that has struggled.

Its basically a narrative of lies and deception to gain ground by playing the victim.

Yeah, I only read the first 3 words, that's why you got 4 direct responses to your last post.

You find it sickening? Go start a protest, if there is merit to you claims, the people will support you.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah, I only read the first 3 words, that's why you got 4 direct responses to your last post.

You find it sickening? Go start a protest, if there is merit to you claims, the people will support you.

You couldnt protest against BLM, you cant even say ALM, you'll lose your job, be branded a racist and more than likely violently attacked by BLM supporters.You literally dont have the freedom of that speech anymore, Black lives are the only ones that matter right now.

Prob why a grieving mother for a 5 year old first and foremost had to state the child was not a racist, least she be attacked by BLM supporters.

Wheres the media outrage for that? guess they arent interested if they cant race bait, too busy crying about a man, that robbed pregnant women and was off his face on drugs.

But swap the rolls a min, Imagine just for a min, that the child was black and the murderer was a white man, answer honestly what response do you think we d have? would it be the same as is now?

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

You couldnt protest against BLM, you cant even say ALM, you'll lose your job, be branded a racist and more than likely violently attacked by BLM supporters.You literally dont have the freedom of that speech anymore, Black lives are the only ones that matter right now.

Prob why a grieving mother for a 5 year old first and foremost had to state the child was not a racist, least she be attacked by BLM supporters.

Wheres the media outrage for that? guess they arent interested if they cant race bait, too busy crying about a man, that robbed pregnant women and was off his face on drugs.

But swap the rolls a min, Imagine just for a min, that the child was black and the murderer was a white man, answer honestly what response do you think we d have? would it be the same as is now?

You mean like Tamir Rice? Shot by a police officer who was never charged in the killing?
And who was fired not because of his actions, but because he had concealed information in his job application?
And who was granted a job in another police force until he withdrew his application while in training?

Do you see any difference between that case and this one while the accused killer of the child sits in jail awaiting trial?

Does the comparison in these two cases help you see why people are marching?

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

You mean like Tamir Rice? Shot by a police officer who was never charged in the killing?
And who was fired not because of his actions, but because he had concealed information in his job application?
And who was granted a job in another police force until he withdrew his application while in training?

Do you see any difference between that case and this one while the accused killer of the child sits in jail awaiting trial?

Does the comparison in these two cases help you see why people are marching?

All i see is you side stepping every difficult question you get asked.

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

All i see is you side stepping every difficult question you get asked.

He says as he doesn't answer the question.

I have responded in detail to any posts which you have made which I felt warranted a response.

Now, to your last point, if it has to be said, if the child who was murdered was black, and the guy who did it was white would we have the same response? Largely, yes, if the guy was arrested and in jail as this guy is. I do expect there would be more conversation about race given that there are so many cases where when a white person attacks, a motivation is found to have been race.

Let me guess, you are going to say 'everyone knows there would be riots in the streets' when what you mean is 'I think there would be riots in the streets'.

So, please feel free to point out any other questions which you feel were unanswered and also provide your own answer on the case of Tamir Rice

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

He says as he doesn't answer the question.

I have responded in detail to any posts which you have made which I felt warranted a response.

Now, to your last point, if it has to be said, if the child who was murdered was black, and the guy who did it was white would we have the same response? Largely, yes, if the guy was arrested and in jail as this guy is. I do expect there would be more conversation about race given that there are so many cases where when a white person attacks, a motivation is found to have been race.

Let me guess, you are going to say 'everyone knows there would be riots in the streets' when what you mean is 'I think there would be riots in the streets'.

So, please feel free to point out any other questions which you feel were unanswered and also provide your own answer on the case of Tamir Rice

So you would agree there is a double standard? Any time something negative happens to a black person its instantly attributed to there skin color first and foremost, all other details take a back seat. Is there a race that plays the race card more?

I asked that question already knowing the answer i just wanted to see if you'd admit it or not.

Whats your views on BLM profiting off these racial incidents? to the tune of millions? how do you feel about them hi-jacking Tamir Rices, GF.. deaths ect for there own gain?

Do you think GF was killed because of the color of his skin?

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

So you would agree there is a double standard? Any time something negative happens to a black person its instantly attributed to there skin color first and foremost, all other details take a back seat. Is there a race that plays the race card more?

I asked that question already knowing the answer i just wanted to see if you'd admit it or not.

Whats your views on BLM profiting off these racial incidents? to the tune of millions? how do you feel about them hi-jacking Tamir Rices, GF.. deaths ect for there own gain?

Do you think GF was killed because of the color of his skin?

SMH

I didn't agree there is a double standard, I pointed out there are different scenarios at play.

In spite at your repeated accusations that I haven't answered your questions, you still haven't answered the one above. I expect an answer in your next post.

I don't see how BLM are profiting to the tune of millions? Maybe you will print a link but I would ask you to consider are they using oney donated to support people arrested to and to pay for costs associated with marches, permits, organisation etc.

Do I think GF was killed because of the colour of his skin? Yes.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

SMH

I didn't agree there is a double standard, I pointed out there are different scenarios at play.

In spite at your repeated accusations that I haven't answered your questions, you still haven't answered the one above. I expect an answer in your next post.

I don't see how BLM are profiting to the tune of millions? Maybe you will print a link but I would ask you to consider are they using oney donated to support people arrested to and to pay for costs associated with marches, permits, organisation etc.

Do I think GF was killed because of the colour of his skin? Yes.

Case in Point, thats the problem there is no evidence to suggest this outside of just people playing the race card. 0 Evidence to suggest this was a racial attack.

Those officers wont even be done for murder and rightly so, he wasnt intentionally killed, can you explain how it took 7 min to kill him with a choke? can you explain how why he was saying he couldnt breath while going into the cop car before any knee ?

Have you even seen the full footage of the body cams? or just the BLM edition?

Tell me how

Cupatae wrote: »

Case in Point, thats the problem there is no evidence to suggest this outside of just people playing the race card. 0 Evidence to suggest this was a racial attack.

Those officers wont even be done for murder and rightly so, he wasnt intentionally killed, can you explain how it took 7 min to kill him with a choke? can you explain how why he was saying he couldnt breath while going into the cop car before any knee ?

Have you even seen the full footage of the body cams? or just the BLM edition?

I don't think they should be done for murder. I think some of them should not even have been charged.

BLM didn't produce any video. It was recorded by a teenaged girl and released by her to the media.

Yes, I have seen all the footage, reinforces the view that the police practices are inappropriate and need to change. There is no way the outcome of such an engagement should have been the death of the man.

And still no answer to my questions. I wouldn't really care but for the crying you did all day yesterday about not getting a response. Guess that must mean you are squirming? Is that how this works?
I don't really care whether you do or not, but you should practice what you preach.

Biafranlivemat

Here is an interesting news article on the bLM movement and Money.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/blm-groups-are-multiplying-and-competing-for-donations/

American politics and **** aside....

Does a black lives matter movement have any validity in Ireland? The ****ing irony of weird fringed lunatics wearing sweatshop manufactured clothes while bleating about injustice on their iPhone is astounding.

Racism exists. It does. It's ****e. We get it. You won't stop racists being racists by wearing a t-shirt or by virtue signalling. Racism is widely not tolerated. You can't stop people being racist though, but you can make their ****ty opinions invalid.

Tell me how

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Here is an interesting news article on the bLM movement and Money.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/blm-groups-are-multiplying-and-competing-for-donations/

Seems pretty reasonable.

He paid himself $24,000 to run the organization in 2017, the latest tax filings show. The charity took in $279,109 in 2017, and spent $189,000 on homeless services and producing a rap video to raise awareness of police violence in the black community.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

American politics and **** aside....

Does a black lives matter movement have any validity in Ireland? The ****ing irony of weird fringed lunatics wearing sweatshop manufactured clothes while bleating about injustice on their iPhone is astounding.

Racism exists. It does. It's ****e. We get it. You won't stop racists being racists by wearing a t-shirt or by virtue signalling. Racism is widely not tolerated. You can't stop people being racist though, but you can make their ****ty opinions invalid.

Check out the thread relating to he incident on the canal. Plenty evidence there that there are people tolerating it.
It absolutely can be stopped but it takes time and effort to get the message across.


Why is it so triggering for people to see others advocating for change in order to help others?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Check out the thread relating to he incident on the canal. Plenty evidence there that there are people tolerating it.
It absolutely can be stopped but it takes time and effort to get the message across.


Why is it so triggering for people to see others advocating for change in order to help others?

The majority are not tolerant of it. People are aware though, that racism is real and that it exists. Huge difference. It is not socially or legally appropriate for people to be racist. What more can be done? Should we "ban" racism? "Ban" homophobia? You ok with that?