BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I agree, people that cry 'what about white people' are the worst.

'Lol'... :rolleyes:

Child molesting, domestic abusers who resist arrest are worth defending though.

Gotcha.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

You are aware this is happening while Trump is president?

He has shown himself incapable of dealing with this issue

America was a utopia for black people when Barack was in charge:rolleyes:

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Just taking the first section, as it relates to policing, again and again the studies cite the small % represented by black people out of the overall population, yet their disproportionate % involved in traffic stops and other interactions with police. These summations conveniently leave out any details on the particular situation in those communities. Why might black communities see a larger police presence?

Black people make up ~13% of the population nationally, so black men ~6-7%. If you accept that most violent crime and murder is performed by men, then you would roughly 6-7% of the national population commuting ~50% of the violent crime and murder. That's astronomical.

I see it less as evidence of racism, and moreso police putting resources into the areas with more criminal activity occuring.

The stat in itself is racist, when you are making connections between criminality and race. By concluding that blacks are predisposed to more crimes you're introducing racism, which is inherent in the system.

A massive study published in May 2020 of 95 million traffic stops by 56 police agencies between 2011 and 2018 found that while black people were much more likely to be pulled over than whites, the disparity lessens at night, when police are less able to distinguish the race of the driver. The study also found that blacks were more likely to be searched after a stop, though whites were more likely to be found with illicit drugs. The darker the sky, the less pronounced the disparity between white and black motorists. The study also found that in states that had legalized marijuana, the racial disparity narrowed but was still significant.

An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women.

A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. Black motorists also comprised 76 percent of arrests following a traffic stop despite making up 43 percent of the city’s population. It’s worth noting, again, that multiple studies have shown that searches of white motorists are slightly more likely to turn up contraband than searches of black motorists.

Another study found that in surrounding Travis County, Tex., blacks comprised about 30 percent of police arrests for possession of less than a gram of an illicit drug from 2017 to 2018, despite making up only 9 percent of the county’s population, and that surveys consistently show that blacks and whites use illegal drugs at about the same rate.

A 2020 study commissioned by the Charlottesville city council found significant racial disparities in the city and surrounding county’s criminal justice systems in five key areas: “seriousness of charges brought, the number of companion charges, bail-bond release decisions, the length of stay awaiting trial, and guilty outcomes.” In the city, black men were 8.5 percent of the population, but comprised more than half the arrests. In the county, black men were 4.4 percent of the population, but comprised 37.6 percent of arrests.

A 2019 report in the Intercept found that blacks in South Bend, Ind., were 4.3 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession. Again, studies consistently show drug use is similar across all races.

In March of 2019, researchers compiled and analyzed data from more than 100 million traffic stops in the United States. What they found: Police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. As with previous studies, they also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband — even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband. They also found that legalization of marijuana in Colorado and Washington has caused fewer drivers to be searched during a stop, but that it did not alter the increased frequency with which black and Latino drivers are searched.

I could go on.

CertifiedSimp

So how many businesses and innocent white people get attacked before racism is ended?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Child molesting, domestic abusers who resist arrest are worth defending though.

Gotcha.

Priors have no relevance to the arrest.

Before I leave it unchecked though, do you have any actual evidence he molested children? I ask, because we let it go unchallenged for weeks that George Floyd pointed a gun at a pregnant lady and then that became 'the truth' when he wasn't holding a gun during the incident at all in fact. I don't get results when I look for 'Jacob Blake child molest' on google. So, I'm curious where you came by this talking point.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

The stat in itself is racist, when you are making connections between criminality and race. By concluding that blacks are predisposed to more crimes you're introducing racism, which is inherent in the system.

Those are reported statistics, year after year. Facts are racist now apparently. A perfect summation of where this discussion finds itself nowadays

Overheal wrote: »

I could go on.

You certainly can.

Foxtrol

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Just more of the usual leftist tactic of accusing others of just what you yourselves are doing. This violence in the name of BLM has being going on for months and you didn't condemn it then either, so don't try and suggest that it's not being condemned now because of this latest incident, as it's baloney.

I've repeatedly condemned it as has nearly everyone leading protests.

Police brutality in America is an issue for all races and pretending it's not just to excuse assaulting and attacking innocent people won't make it any the less accurate. Blacks have far more interactions with cops and so they are going to be victims of overzealous policing far more than other races as a result of that. More interactions increases probability.

Then be made about police brutality.

I guarantee you that more teenage lads from council houses and inner city flats get frisked in Dublin that similar aged teens from the suburbs, but that doesn't mean there's systemic discrimination within the Gardai, it's just needed if they are to have an affect preventing drug use.

How many teenage lads in Dublin get shot 7 times in the back by police or get assault riffles pulled on them when they were the ones being attacked?

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1292831429957746690?s=20

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Those are reported statistics, year after year. Facts are racist now apparently. A perfect summation of where this discussion finds itself nowadays

Quite the vicious cycle isnt it:

Jim Crow Police: 'we arrested a lot of n*ggers'

Depression era Police: 'we have a lot of data that shows negros involved in a lot of arrests in the past, better police the negros more'

Civil Rights era Police: 'we have a lot of data that shows colored folks involved in a lot of arrests in the past, better police the coloreds more'

etc.

Hence, systemic racism, when the system is inherently designed around using race-based historical data to determine how to function. In this case, deciding that historical data based on race is best used to determine to use more police resources against those races, despite numerous bodies of study showing criminality is not predicated on race. Drugs, for instance, are used across the board by all races fairly equally, so it wouldn't make sense to increase drug enforcement over Blacks vs. Whites.

If I have a lot of historical police data showing travelers make up a lot of arrests, so I deploy more police against traveler communities, that is systemically discriminating to travelers.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding what it really means to have a systemically racist system.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Child molesting, domestic abusers who resist arrest are worth defending though.

Gotcha.

No, I don't think anyone deserves to be shot 7 times in the back a metre from their young children.

Cops that are so bad at their job that this situation arises seem to be top of the list of people you'll defend though.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Quite the vicious cycle isnt it:

Jim Crow Police: 'we arrested a lot of n*ggers'

Depression era Police: 'we have a lot of data that shows negros involved in a lot of arrests in the past, better police the negros more'

Civil Rights era Police: 'we have a lot of data that shows colored folks involved in a lot of arrests in the past, better police the coloreds more'

etc.

Hence, systemic racism, when the system is inherently designed around using race-based historical data to determine how to function. In this case, deciding that historical data based on race is best used to determine to use more police resources against those races, despite numerous bodies of study showing criminality is not predicated on race. Drugs, for instance, are used across the board by all races fairly equally, so it wouldn't make sense to increase drug enforcement over Blacks vs. Whites.

If I have a lot of historical police data showing travelers make up a lot of arrests, so I deploy more police against traveler communities, that is systemically discriminating to travelers.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding what it really means to have a systemically racist system.

Is Jim Crow making black people commit over 50% of murders per year, the majority of them against other black people?

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

No, I don't think anyone deserves to be shot 7 times in the back a metre from their young children.

Cops that are so bad at their job that this situation arises seem to be top of the list of people you'll defend though.

Again, you're making assumptions about a situation without knowing the details. We don't know if he had a weapon on him, he don't know why he refused to obey the police. If he had a knife or a gun in the car he was reaching for, what course of action should the police have taken? They had already tazed him it seems, to little avail.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You certainly can.

Brilliant!

A study of criminal cases from 1983 and 1993 found that prosecutors in Philadelphia removed 52 percent of potential black jurors vs. only 23 percent of nonblack jurors.

Between 2003 and 2012, prosecutors in Caddo Parish, La. — one of the most aggressive death penalty counties in the country — struck 46 percent of prospective black jurors with preemptory challenges, vs. 15 percent of nonblacks.

Between 1994 and 2002, Jefferson Parish prosecutors struck 55 percent of blacks, but just 16 percent of whites. Although blacks make up 23 percent of the population, 80 percent of criminal trials had no more than two black jurors in a state where it takes only 10 of 12 juror votes to convict.

A 2011 study from Michigan State University College of Law found that between 1990 and 2010, state prosecutors struck about 53 percent of black people eligible for juries in criminal cases, vs. about 26 percent of white people. The study’s authors concluded that the chance of this occurring in a race-neutral process was less than 1 in 10 trillion. Even after adjusting for excuses given by prosecutors that tend to correlate with race, the 2-to-1 discrepancy remained. The state legislature had previously passed a law stating that death penalty defendants who could demonstrate racial bias in jury selection could have their sentences changed to life without parole. The legislature later repealed that law.

A survey of seven death penalty cases in Columbus, Ga., going back to the 1970s found that prosecutors struck 41 of 44 prospective black jurors. Six of the seven trials featured all-white juries.

While white people make up less than half of the country’s murder victims, a 2003 study by Amnesty International found that about 80 percent of the people on death row in the United States killed a white person.

In Delaware, according to a 2012 study, “black defendants who kill white victims are seven times as likely to receive the death penalty as are black defendants who kill black victims. … Moreover, black defendants who kill white victims are more than three times as likely to be sentenced to death as are white defendants who kill white victims.”

A study of North Carolina murder cases from 1980 through 2007 found that murderers who kill white people are three times more likely to get the death penalty than murderers who kill black people.

A 2014 study looking at 33 years of data found that after adjusting for variables such as the number of victims and brutality of the crimes, jurors in Washington state were 4.5 times more likely to impose the death penalty on black defendants accused of aggravated murder than on white ones.

Black people are also more likely to be wrongly convicted of murder when the victim was white. Only about 15 percent of people killed by black people were white, but 31 percent of black exonorees were wrongly convicted of killing white people. More generally, black people convicted of murder are 50 percent more likely to be innocent than white people convicted of murder.

In Houston County, Ala., prosecutors struck 80 percent of black people from juries in death penalty cases.

A 2015 study by the Women Donors Network found that in three-fifths of the states where prosecutors are elected, there isn’t a single black prosecutor. Overall, the study found that in the United States, 95 percent of elected prosecutors are white, and nearly 80 percent are white men. In nine death penalty states (Colorado, Delaware, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington and Wyoming), all of the elected district attorneys were white in 2015.

A 2017 study of about 48,000 criminal cases in Wisconsin showed that white defendants were 25 percent more likely than black defendants to have their most serious charge dismissed in a plea bargain. Among defendants facing misdemeanor charges that could carry a sentence of incarceration, whites were 75 percent more likely to have those charges dropped, dismissed or reduced to a charge that did not include such a punishment.

A 2011 summary of the research on race and plea bargaining published by the Bureau of Justice Assistance concluded that “the majority of research on race and sentencing outcomes shows that blacks are less likely than whites to receive reduced pleas,” that “studies that assess the effects of race find that blacks are less likely to receive a reduced charge compared with whites,” and that “studies have generally found a relationship between race and whether or not a defendant receives a reduced charge.”

A 2016 review of nearly 474,000 criminal cases in Hampton Roads, Va., found that whites were more likely to get plea deals that resulted in no jail time for drug offenses. While facing charges of drug distribution, 48 percent of whites received plea bargains with no jail time, vs. 22 percent of blacks. Among those with prior criminal records who pleaded guilty to robbery, 36 percent of whites got no jail time, vs. 8 percent of blacks.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Jim Crow making black people commit over 50% of murders per year, the majority of them against other black people?

Is that the only talking point you have? Quite pathetic really.

Do we need to go over the murder clearance rate again or are you only pretending to be ignorant?

biko

Good that not everyone are buying into the movement.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

The stat in itself is racist, when you are making connections between criminality and race. By concluding that blacks are predisposed to more crimes you're introducing racism, which is inherent in the system.

Stating something that is a fact is now racist. Gotcha.

It's a statistic. What's racist about a statistic?

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

Stating something that is a fact is now racist. Gotcha.

It's a statistic. What's racist about a statistic?

Do you really not see the inherent racism in a race-based stat like that? Much less using those stats to determine future policing?

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

Do you really not see the inherent racism in a race-based stat like that? Much less using those stats to determine future policing?

Nope. I see it as proof that there's a problem with a significant element of the black community committing crime.

.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Is that the only talking point you have? Quite pathetic really.

Do we need to go over the murder clearance rate again or are you only pretending to be ignorant?

It's the most pertinent one, when it comes to policing and why black communities see more interactions with law enforcement than other ones. Must be frustrating to have facts get in the way of your argument alright.

You do go about murder clearance rates, as tho that somehow supports your argument. If those statistics are based on cases where the perpetrators are known, then having a large number of uncleared cases would likely further inflate those numbers if they could be solved. Unless you are trying to argue that there is a great wave of murders occuring, being commited by other races, against all currently available evidence.

You always continually fail to provide any details on the locations of these unsolved murders, or the communities they occur in. I wonder why?

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

No, I don't think anyone deserves to be shot 7 times in the back a metre from their young children.

Cops that are so bad at their job that this situation arises seem to be top of the list of people you'll defend though.

The police tried to restrain a criminal who had a warrant out for his arrest. He used force to break free from them when they had him on the ground, and then tried to reach in to his car to retrieve something concealed as they repeatedly warned him to comply with their directions.

Bad at their jobs? Reckless police shooting a poor guy in front of his kids? Demented point of view

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Stating something that is a fact is now racist. Gotcha.

It's a statistic. What's racist about a statistic?

It's also sexist to say that men commit more domestic violence by that posters rationale.

Outlaw Pete

Foxtrol wrote: »

How many teenage lads in Dublin get shot 7 times in the back by police or get assault riffles pulled on them when they were the ones being attacked?

Facepalm.jpg

I was making an analogy. That teens here are not shot by the police has nothing to do with my point, which was that just because more blacks are shot or that they tend to be profiled more than whites, does not therefore mean that there is systemic racism in the US police force. There are other factors at play but the left ignore that.

There's a reason everyone knows George Floyd's name but yet most will never hear of Tony Timpa and that's because Floyd's death has been used by the left to excuse their attempts to take down the establishment. That's all they want. If they cared about black lives they'd be directing their energies at trying to mitigate black violent deaths where they occur in large numbers. This is all about getting whitey.

The leverage that can be gained from cries of racism is huge because people are appalled by it and the left knows this so they use it as much as they can. It's the reason Jussie Smollett tied a noose around his neck and said some country boys with MAGA hats poured bleach on him and of course why there's been many other similarly fabricated attacks carried out. These people just want American society to believe that racism is a much bigger issue than it actually is so they can use the resulting division to gain momentum politically.

Outlaw Pete

This is why cops need to act when people resist arrest and then reach into a car:


https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1298330729890242561

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Priors have no relevance to the arrest.

Before I leave it unchecked though, do you have any actual evidence he molested children? I ask, because we let it go unchallenged for weeks that George Floyd pointed a gun at a pregnant lady and then that became 'the truth' when he wasn't holding a gun during the incident at all in fact. I don't get results when I look for 'Jacob Blake child molest' on google. So, I'm curious where you came by this talking point.

It is absolutely astonishing that you and BLM supporters are trying themselves in knots to defend or excuse the actions or characters of George Floyd and Jacob Blake.

I'm sure you are right, they are/were lovely people who were picked on by the evil racist white police men.

Ffs

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

You're despicable.

I have absolutely no issue in saying that the police did their job and would have no issue with them using lethal force in this case based on all available evidence.

Bizarre that you consider that despicable and yet think poor old George Floyd is worth riots and endangering police and civilian lives for.

To say you have a skewed world view would be an understatement

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Again, you're making assumptions about a situation without knowing the details. We don't know if he had a weapon on him, he don't know why he refused to obey the police. If he had a knife or a gun in the car he was reaching for, what course of action should the police have taken? They had already tazed him it seems, to little avail.

Come on. If he had a weapon on him or in the car do you really think that information wouldn't have leaked by now when everything he has ever been accused of has gotten into the hands of right wing media, along with things that appear to be completely made up? You're incredibly naive if you believe that.

What assumption am I making? The videos show the police had no control of the situation and it ended up with a man getting shot in the back several times a metre from his kids. In no measure is that good policing.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Come on. If he had a weapon on him or in the car do you really think that information wouldn't have leaked by now when everything he has ever been accused of has gotten into the hands of right wing media, along with things that appear to be completely made up? You're incredibly naive if you believe that.

What assumption am I making? The videos show the police had no control of the situation and it ended up with a man getting shot in the back several times a metre from his kids. In no measure is that good policing.

Not complying with police instructions, actively and forcefully evading and resisting arrest, ignoring policemen with their weapons drawn and not heeding warnings that he will be shot are absolutely reasons to believe he was trying to retrieve a weapon.

Should the police wait to be shot before they shoot?

This prick had every opportunity not to be shot. He, and he alone l, is responsible for what happened to him.

Dyr

biko wrote: »

Good that not everyone are buying into the movement.

This is the real comparison

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Come on. If he had a weapon on him or in the car do you really think that information wouldn't have leaked by now when everything he has ever been accused of has gotten into the hands of right wing media, along with things that appear to be completely made up? You're incredibly naive if you believe that.

What assumption am I making? The videos show the police had no control of the situation and it ended up with a man getting shot in the back several times a metre from his kids. In no measure is that good policing.

How many times must the same cycle perpetuate? Wait for the details to get released before passing judgement.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You always continually fail to provide any details on the locations of these unsolved murders, or the communities they occur in. I wonder why?

Because I don't have that information. If you want to make your own argument go for it.

It's the most pertinent one, when it comes to policing and why black communities see more interactions with law enforcement than other ones. Must be frustrating to have facts get in the way of your argument alright.

The facts don't get in the way, they support what I'm saying.

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

just because more blacks are shot or that they tend to be profiled more than whites, does not therefore mean that there is systemic racism in the US police force.

Laughable