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BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cupatae wrote: »
    Ok so in your opinion why did they shoot that man what do you think was the reasoning ?

    Painfully inadequate policing, bred from multi-generational lapses in meaningful police reforms. There were plenty of options to subdue the suspect here, many of which involved no tools, just regular hand-to-hand stuff, that they should be training officers to use if they aren't already. Blake had his back turned and they couldn't handle that without waiting for the perfect moment to shoot him in the back 7 times? My hole. There was ample opportunity there to subdue him without lethal force. Too many departments skip those options though, there is a propensity to just escalate to the firearm without exploring those options.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Overheal wrote: »
    Quite a bit more than "the black friend" I'm afraid. Again, you have no idea what my relationship with the police is, or what my knowledgebase is of the job. You're seemingly upset that I can look at this objectively: that cops are as likely to be struck by lightning as to be shot on the job. But if we don't look at it objectively we will get nowhere.

    Would black people by as likely to be struck by lightning as shot by police in the wrong?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Overheal wrote: »
    Quite a bit more than "the black friend" I'm afraid. Again, you have no idea what my relationship with the police is, or what my knowledgebase is of the job. You're seemingly upset that I can look at this objectively: that cops are as likely to be struck by lightning as to be shot on the job. But if we don't look at it objectively we will get nowhere.

    Looking at stuff objectively and them rant off nonsense like that good God... If they did what your suggesting anyway I'd say there likely hood of being shot would be thru the roof.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    Would black people by as likely to be struck by lightning as shot by police in the wrong?

    In english please


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cupatae wrote: »
    If they did what your suggesting anyway I'd say there likely hood of being shot would be thru the roof.

    How? How would they have been shot by a man with no gun if they had tackled him? :confused::confused::confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Overheal wrote: »
    In english please

    you said cops are as likely to be struck by lightning as shot on the job, would the same apply to black people being shot by cops? , was perfectly fine english btw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    was perfectly fine english btw.

    Not in fact.
    you said cops are as likely to be struck by lightning as shot on the job, would the same apply to black people being shot by cops?

    That's far harder to gauge and the data would be far more misleading. We have employment stats for cops, of which there are under 1 million serving full time nationwide, but there are tens of millions of black americans. We do know, however, that blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot by cops than whites, per the facts available.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Overheal wrote: »
    Painfully inadequate policing, bred from multi-generational lapses in meaningful police reforms. There were plenty of options to subdue the suspect here, many of which involved no tools, just regular hand-to-hand stuff, that they should be training officers to use if they aren't already. Blake had his back turned and they couldn't handle that without waiting for the perfect moment to shoot him in the back 7 times? My hole. There was ample opportunity there to subdue him without lethal force. Too many departments skip those options though, there is a propensity to just escalate to the firearm without exploring those options.

    So the black man has no blame in his death then

    What would you consider a reasonable reason for shooting a black man for police ?

    What events would they need to let happen before you and other BLM fanatics would say "ok they had to shoot"

    Do you believe any of the BLM looters rioters or any black man in the past 6 months has been rightfully killed by police ? How many would you say % wise were rightfully killed by police ?

    Remember the police get called to the situations these black people create for themselves.

    We already know it's ok to shoot white people in the same way cause there's no protests going on about it , actually BLM would actively attack one even if there was .


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Frankie Machine


    Overheal wrote: »
    That's a Foundation that is using the term. Black Lives Matter is a movement.

    Being a Foundation doesn't make the people protesting - millions upon millions - footsoldiers of this foundation. At least argue honestly indeed.

    Actually it makes them precisely that, whether wittingly or not.

    Because rom the same page that I already linked to -
    We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

    What next of your spoofery ?

    That the Foundation is the Provisional BLM, an the Movement is the Continuity BLM ? ? ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not in fact.



    That's far harder to gauge and the data would be far more misleading. We have employment stats for cops, of which there are under 1 million serving full time nationwide, but there are millions of black americans. We do know, however, that blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot by cops than whites, per the facts available.

    No its not harder to gauge, you just dont want to gauge it, go and look up how many cops die a year from shooting versus how many black people are killed by cops, i think you will find its more likely a cop will be shot dead taking into account the numbers, your lightning comment was wrong, if anything it applies more to the likelihood of a black person been shot dead by police.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not in fact.



    That's far harder to gauge and the data would be far more misleading. We have employment stats for cops, of which there are under 1 million serving full time nationwide, but there are tens of millions of black americans. We do know, however, that blacks are 2.5x more likely to be shot by cops than whites, per the facts available.

    We also know that black people make up 13% of the pop and commit well over 50% of all voilent crime..

    A critical stat often left out by only black lives matter .

    These people's deaths are by in large a result of there own behavior and there own manufactured situations .

    And that's the truth of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cupatae wrote: »
    So the black man has no blame in his death then

    What would you consider a reasonable reason for shooting a black man for police ?

    What events would they need to let happen before you and other BLM fanatics would say "ok they had to shoot"

    Do you believe any of the BLM looters rioters or any black man in the past 6 months has been rightfully killed by police ? How many would you say % wise were rightfully killed by police ?

    Remember the police get called to the situations these black people create for themselves.

    Let's pretend you aren't being egregiously racist here.

    I would expect that police would only deploy lethal force when there is a confirmed lethal threat. However, I am sidelined on this, because our current policing system allows for police to dispatch lethal force if the mere threat of physical harm is present. "That dog barked at me, I feared for my life." "That man reached for the ID I asked for, I feared for my life." "I let that man walk away from me, I feared for my life."


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cupatae wrote: »
    We also know that black people make up 13% of the pop and commit well over 50% of all voilent crime..

    The same, tired, misleading statistic born of policing behavior that targets communities of color based on the actions of other people who also happened to have been black. It only tells us that cops are very good at arresting black people, and not whites for example, with mounds of data to support that conclusion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    He was ignoring the cops even though they had their guns out. He knew the level of violence he was facing and chose to rock on with whatever he was about to do.

    My point was that the cops failed by escalating things to that level of violence.

    I can only go on reports. Kind of like you. Just going on what was reported. You seem convinced that's not what happened.

    You're trying to have it both ways. One minute you're saying you can only go by the video and then going by unsubstantiated reports because it suits your narrative.
    The cops aren't psychics. They couldn't have been 100% sure he didn't have a weapon.

    By that logic cops should be drawing guns on everyone in every situation. The guy was in shorts and a t-shirt.
    So, he was potentially a risk to the cops. Delighted to hear that. 3 kids in the car doesn't change the levels of risk that the cops were facing.

    Yes and it was failed policing that got him to that point.

    3 kids in the car changes the level of risk to the innocents, what is supposed to come into the decision making for cops.
    I should have used the word threatened instead of uncomfortable. If you were a cop there, would you have felt threatened?

    Yes, but from what I see in the video not to the point of shooting a man 7 times in the back a meter from 3 children.
    A cop is not an extremely well-paying job. Average patrol cop's wage in Kenosha is around €55k. Not a whole lot for putting your life on the line.

    Where'd you get that number from?

    From their own recruitment website the current starting salary for a Police Officer is $59,508.00 - $73,908.00 annually while median household income for the area is $67,868.00.

    So you're saying the starting salary for someone with only a high school diploma being around median income of a whole household is not extremely well paid? That is before going into their ridiculous pensions, perks, and overtime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Actually it makes them precisely that, whether wittingly or not.

    Because rom the same page that I already linked to -



    What next of your spoofery ?

    That the Foundation is the Provisional BLM, an the Movement is the Continuity BLM ? ? ?


    So if I make a website and call it the People against BLM foundation and use buzzwords like collective bla bla bla you're my footsoldier now are you?

    Feckin glorious nonsense from you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭R.F.


    It's rather telling that those who are outraged by BLM are actively ignoring the teen with first degree murder charges.


    This place is like logging onto stormfront. Kind of depressing


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Erm. I don't know about Wisconsin, but it seems to me you need to read up the Texas Penal Code where such things are explicitly permitted if there are no practical alternatives to prevent escape. See, for example, Title 2, Chapter 9, Sections 9.42, 9.51 or 9.52.

    As for the warrant, it isn't really relevant to the officers if they knew or not. It might be more relevant if the victim knew, but I suspect the police have to honor a threat regardless.

    Well we are talking about Wisconsin and everything I can see does not give police power to shoot people for fleeing. Happy to be corrected but you know well highlighting laws in other states is pointless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    It's rather telling that those who are outraged by BLM are actively ignoring the teen with first degree murder charges.

    It is pretty amazing.

    They are more annoyed about people getting shouted at than a guy charged with first degree murder, not even getting into how the cops hold a significant responsibility for the fact the murder and other killings occurred last night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭Tipperary animal lover


    https://t.co/PzH6FPWONS?amp=1

    Have a listen, is a code99 mean wanted?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    Categorically false, in fact. I regularly meet and talk with my police, I've sat down for chats with the chief of police over there at the University, I interact regularly with city police via social media, I report things to police that need to be reported, in person, online or over the phone. You have no idea, clearly, what my level of respect is for the police.

    What proof have you got of that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What proof have you got of that?

    I do actually have proof, though I'm not sure I'm comfortable sharing it given the nature of it. Emails, texts, recorded conversations even. Suffice to say you are making scurrilous accusations about me which are categorically false.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Overheal wrote: »
    I do actually have proof, though I'm not sure I'm comfortable sharing it given the nature of it. Emails, texts, recorded conversations even. Suffice to say you are making scurrilous accusations about me which are categorically false.

    So you are not going to produce any proof....


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    I do actually have proof, though I'm not sure I'm comfortable sharing it given the nature of it. Emails, texts, recorded conversations even. Suffice to say you are making scurrilous accusations about me which are categorically false.

    Nah man, I'll stand by it. I don't think you have respect for the police force in the United States of America and would be comfortable saying that you feel that they are racist as an institution/collective.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you are not going to produce any proof....

    In fairness, expecting a person to divulge private personal details is pretty excessive.
    Nah man, I'll stand by it. I don't think you have respect for the police force in the United States of America and would be comfortable saying that you feel that they are racist as an institution/collective.

    In fairness, I think we can make plenty of conclusions around you're particularly nasty views based on your posting history. Meanwhile Overheal like a large proportion of the US public views the grievances of BLM to be pretty legitimate.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Overheal wrote: »
    Let's pretend you aren't being egregiously racist here.

    I would expect that police would only deploy lethal force when there is a confirmed lethal threat. However, I am sidelined on this, because our current policing system allows for police to dispatch lethal force if the mere threat of physical harm is present. "That dog barked at me, I feared for my life." "That man reached for the ID I asked for, I feared for my life." "I let that man walk away from me, I feared for my life."

    Hold on a min a few posts a go you mentioned a black man for the sake of it... I do it and all of a sudden I'm racist can you explain the double standards there please

    You don't seem very sidelined infact quiet the opposite you condemn the police at every chance when the trhu is the man put himself in the situation and forced police to make a split second decision ...

    Have you noticed how everyone that isn't foxtrol completely disagrees with your logic ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Gerry Hatrick


    Cupatae wrote: »
    It's actually scary what the media can do... Some of these BLM defenders are completely devoid of all logic , and can now only see black people as victims regardless of what they do to provoke there own deaths or what situations they put themselves into..

    The power of the media is scary and how many drone like people that are out there!

    People fall for it though, they are like lemmings afraid to think for themselves.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In fairness, expecting a person to divulge private personal details is pretty excessive.


    In fairness, I think we can make plenty of conclusions around you're particularly nasty views based on your posting history. Meanwhile Overheal like a large proportion of the US public views the grievances of BLM to be pretty legitimate.

    I stand by my views.

    I abhor BLM and antifa

    I am not a fan of self identification of trans people giving them access to opposite sex exclusive areas.

    I am against third wave feminism

    I am against illegal immigration

    Are there any other "nasty" views I hold Mike? I'll gladly confirm or deny.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Overheal wrote: »
    The same, tired, misleading statistic born of policing behavior that targets communities of color based on the actions of other people who also happened to have been black. It only tells us that cops are very good at arresting black people, and not whites for example, with mounds of data to support that conclusion.

    It's a fact , so all the black people woes are now attributes to the police fantastic makes a change from blaming white people all the time ,

    You swallow everything only black lives matter related hook line and sinker but every other fact to you is a fairtale,

    The brass tax of it all is they do commit more crime they do come into more conflict with police and they do ignore orders leading to there deaths.

    The blame squarely lies at the feet of in this case the "black man's " feet.

    I say black man because that's who your defending and are arguing these poor folk are being targetted unfairly when in reality they bring it on themselves.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I stand by my views.

    I abhor BLM and antifa

    I am not a fan of self identification of trans people giving them access to opposite sex exclusive areas.

    I am against third wave feminism

    I am against illegal immigration

    Are there any other "nasty" views I hold Mike? I'll gladly confirm or deny.

    So you think BLM have no legit grievances? Also why have you paid zero attention to the white teen who has been charged with first degree murder? Because he targeted protesters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Nah man, I'll stand by it. I don't think you have respect for the police force in the United States of America
    Wrong.
    and would be comfortable saying that you feel that they are racist as an institution/collective.

    Because indeed it is.


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