BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Foxtrol

Jeff2 wrote: »

That lad did well in the situation.

He shouldn't have there or have the gun but he held his cool after that.

Its sounds like three different guns fired in the first instance.
A pistol first.

Lad is running to get away while having a loaded gun that could be taken off him and used against him.

If a cop has a loaded gun and thinks someone is after it what would they do.

He runs and falls and hit with a skateboard to the head.
Shoots an attacker then shoots next armed attacker in the arm.

If he was my kid he would get a kick up the hole for being there and with a gun.
Then a slap on the shoulder for getting out ok.

No matter how much he wanted to be and was trying to act like one, he wasn't and never will be a cop. He was an idiot that broke laws by being there and is now facing a laundry list of new charges.

The only thing the lad 'did well' was likely guarantee an interesting time for the next few decades in prison. The initial charge has now grown substantially, they are throwing the book at him for everything he did and rightfully so. Murderers don't get to claim 'self defense' and people that are trying to stop him after the first murder are 'attackers', giving him freedom to shoot and kill more

https://twitter.com/BenHandelman/status/1299112712279126016?s=20

Fat Lives Matter

Tell me how wrote: »

In what way were the media looking to twist, and how exactly did it backfire?

The kid sued them for millions and rightfully won. CNN we're very quite the last night when he was speaking.

Cupatae

Tell me how wrote: »

Given that you mentioned him, I have no doubt that if you were on a discussion Board at the time of his marches you would have been arguing against his premise.

In the same way that those activities in the 50's 60's and 70's didn't bring about immediate change or improvement, they ultimately saw progress.

The same will happen here. Eventually.

No I wouldn't MLK wasn't a scum bag and didn't incite hate filled violence as a means to an end to get a point across , he didn't fight racism with racism and had legitimate cause.

Unlike the scum that are there today and there followers mindless drones out attacking and destroying innocent people's property and homes .

No matter how much you try to brand me a racist it won't work, it's a cheap tactic that I've dismissed with ease multiple times.

JKnoxer

Tell me how wrote: »

Sure, Ok then. If you say so. :D

Lol.

Im not the only one calling you out.
Youve been exposed like a fraud.
You will no doubt keep posting,posting,posting to try to flood the forum to try hide your stupid opinions,but yeh,youve been found out...long before I came along..but yeh youre opinions are being shown as farcical.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Only someone with zero interest or awareness of sport would buy such a statement. All these sports have been playing games for the last month or so.



I think agents and PR handlers would absolutely love to have the power you think they have over these players.



This point is key, because it once again indicates that for many here, it is the fact that the police killed a criminal justifies what happened. It suggests that it is ok that there be summary justice meted out or that something can be justified after the fact.

Police behaviour is leading to escalating tensions in engagements in which there should be no need for that to happen. That is why change is needed, not because of a single racist or unacceptable event but that like with any type of incident which results in a fatality, there are dozens more where it doesn't get quite that bad, hundreds, where behaviour is unacceptable but no form of violence results and probably thousands where prejudicial motives were involved to some degree.

There's a myriad of root causes and outcomes, but the central theme is that the system is not working correctly or fairly for everyone and needs to be revised.

Additionally, if someone came into a restaurant and demanded that you and, I dunno, your mother, raise their hand INA black panther salute... Would you comply?

Foxtrol

Tell me how wrote: »

Given that you mentioned him, I have no doubt that if you were on a discussion Board at the time of his marches you would have been arguing against his premise.

In the same way that those activities in the 50's 60's and 70's didn't bring about immediate change or improvement, they ultimately saw progress.

The same will happen here. Eventually.

It is hilarious when completely uninformed people like that poster claim to understand what MLK would think or feel.

During the earlier protests, before I gave up and blocked that person, that I already explained using MLK's own words how he was disgusted by white who prefer the status quo over direct action by protesters, even if it causes tension. The white moderates he likened to being as bad as the KKK are today's 'if only they'd protest the way I want...' whiners.

MLK wrote:

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it your belief that the people that killed George Floyd did so because they were racist?

I believe that at least Colvin, is of a frame of mind where he viewed GF as less of a person than he might have someone else. I have never heard Colvin speak or met him so I don't know his mind, but I suspect that if he didn't naturally view GF in this way, his experience in his role within that police force moulded him to look at him in this way. I suspect that at least 2 of the cops who were involved in that incident knew nothing more than to support their colleagues as they were only new to the force. And I think that that is part of the problem and how bad behaviour becomes systemic and becomes ingrained within the mindset of a precinct or force.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it your belief that the lad who got shot in the back 7times the other day was shot, not because of his actions, but because he was black?.

It is my belief that the police who shot him did so because they have been inculcated in to a frame of mind where they expect that this person either is more likely to be dangerous, or that it will be more acceptable to shoot them than it would be to shoot a white person in the same scenario.

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe that white people should be better to help black people, or in other words, should white people acknowledge their superiority and privilege and give some to black people so everything can be equal?

I don't think that white people who have earned something through their own efforts or skills should have to give that up to anyone. But I do think that everyone irrespective of their colour should be given the same opportunity to realise their true potential and to make the best use of their skills.

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe positive discrimination is actually positive?

Ultimately it should not happen long term, but I can see how it needs to happen in order to shift expectations within a reasonable timeframe. the opportunity was there to see gradual shift in people appointed to roles naturally but the fact that people need to see people in a role who they can aspire to emulate in their own careers does and did impact change not happening in a reasonable time frame. Furthermore, it was introduced in places to overcome an ingrained bias that exists that someone doing a particular job or role must fit a subconscious profile which is ingrained because that is how it has been for so long.

Deleted User wrote: »

Additionally, if someone came into a restaurant and demanded that you and, I dunno, your mother, raise their hand INA black panther salute... Would you comply?

Deleted User wrote: »

Additionally, if someone came into a restaurant and demanded that you and, I dunno, your mother, raise their hand INA black panther salute... Would you comply?

No. Absolutely not. But I am not looking at single events or individuals as being reflective of the entire movement or motivation behind the protests.
We know that American soldiers committed war crimes during WW2. Does that mean their whole value to that conflict should be negated?


Now, some questions for you.

Do you believe that US police force practices are acceptable?

Do you think that it is possible that a culture of inappropriate behaviour can exist more so within a precinct than within a specific individual?

Do you think that police forces use violence too readily in many situations?

Do you think that police have a different mindset when approaching people in a black community than in a white community?

Do you think that it is acceptable that police forces are highly equipped while school and healthcare services in the same districts see services cut due to lack of funding?

Foxtrol

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I feel we've been over this already.
Can you point out where "Lil Rambo":rolleyes: has been convicted in a court of murder?

I know what I've seen with my own eyes.

When did this sudden become the bar in this thread? For days it was filled with people claiming Blake was guilty of the things he was charged with with absolutely no evidence (with many even making up extra crimes that dont exist). Are you going to go back to correct those posters also or are you just protective of 'Lil Rambo' :rolleyes:?

Tell me how

JKnoxer wrote: »

Im not the only one calling you out.
Youve been exposed like a fraud.
You will no doubt keep posting,posting,posting to try to flood the forum to try hide your stupid opinions,but yeh,youve been found out...long before I came along..but yeh youre opinions are being shown as farcical.

You do realise, just because you say something, doesn't necessarily make it so.

Your arguments are limited to saying 'I have been found out' but no evidence as to how or where.

Foxtrol

Fat Lives Matter wrote: »

The kid sued them for millions and rightfully won. CNN we're very quite the last night when he was speaking.

Crying about being 'cancelled' while speaking at the RNC. Grifters are going to grifter.

Complaining about 'cancel culture' is so interesting, it is only a bad thing when anyone that isn't on the right says something negative about anything.

When it is Trump or any right wing figure calling for boycotts then all is fine :rolleyes:

Frankie Machine

Foxtrol wrote: »

I like how you jumped over the first definition from you source. It shows exactly what I was saying, to make him 'more human' not that he wasn't human before.

Ah, but the second one proves my point neatly, ie that you use words which have meanings you are unaware of.

You opened yourself to misinterpretation, in fact.

BTW my source was Cambridge, which is a far better one than google

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/humanize

Terrific. An online dictionary is as close as you'll get to that place.

The definition I linked you to actually says 'Definitions from Oxford Languages'. Clicking on that takes you to the Oxford University Press.

You do know you can humanise good things also? You can humanise a sports or movie star. If they aren't humanised they don't suddenly become not human like you claim I'm doing.

Going by your definition and warped logic, Lil Rambo didn't have a human characteristic until the poster 'humanised' him. You're talking absolute rubbish.

Its not my definition. It's a definition of a word you used without knowing the full import of that word that you used.

Alas, unknown to yourself, you created a perception that you see some people as less human than others.

You wouldn't have been the first to make that egregious error. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the Wedgwood medallion to see a more noble response than your own ?

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is hilarious when completely uninformed people like that poster claim to understand what MLK would think or feel.

During the earlier protests, before I gave up and blocked that person, that I already explained using MLK's own words how he was disgusted by white who prefer the status quo over direct action by protesters, even if it causes tension. The white moderates he likened to being as bad as the KKK are today's 'if only they'd protest the way I want...' whiners.

MLK would be spinning at people like you and the current BLM talk about setting the black community back years!

You blocked me because I ripped your ridiculous points apart and no one other than overheal agreed with you and you were laughed off the thread.

Pretty similar to here where the majority can see BLM for what it is scumbags and snowflakes out to incite violence and racial divides where there was none previously , blaming the police for everything.

Jacob what ever his name was, was shot because he completely refused to comply and acted in what police see as the most threatening manner.

In short he was a moron and nearly committed suicide by cop 100% his own making and his own fault but for some warped mental reason the police set out to do this according to u and BLM fanatics.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is hilarious when completely uninformed people like that poster claim to understand what MLK would think or feel.

During the earlier protests, before I gave up and blocked that person, that I already explained using MLK's own words how he was disgusted by white who prefer the status quo over direct action by protesters, even if it causes tension. The white moderates he likened to being as bad as the KKK are today's 'if only they'd protest the way I want...' whiners.

It's good that you are here to claim you know how he'd feel.

It was my impression that MLK wanted a country where a black man could become president and it would be common place for mixed race relationships to be accepted and for black people to have the legal freedoms that white people had.

I doubt very much he was speaking about the modern moderate and so your attempt liken moderates to the KKK is either purposely provocative or exceptionally ignorant.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok Gok Wan.

They are hilarious.

'When I dress like this I'm a tough guy'

https://twitter.com/BulgakovsPilot/status/1219320558615220226?s=20

JKnoxer

Tell me how wrote: »

You do realise, just because you say something, doesn't necessarily make it so.

Your arguments are limited to saying 'I have been found out' but no evidence as to how or where.

You keep posting all the evidence all I need.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

It's good that you are here to claim you know how he'd feel.

It was my impression that MLK wanted a country where a black man could become president and it would be common place for mixed race relationships to be accepted and for black people to have the legal freedoms that white people had.

I doubt very much he was speaking about the modern moderate and so your attempt liken moderates to the KKK is either purposely provocative or exceptionally ignorant.

Foxtrol only did so to respond to a poster who has repeatedly (and incorrectly) invoked MLK.

Why can one side utilise someones name or ideals but they other can't?

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I know what I've seen with my own eyes.

When did this sudden become the bar in this thread? For days it was filled with people claiming Blake was guilty of the things he was charged with with absolutely no evidence (with many even making up extra crimes that dont exist). Are you going to go back to correct those posters also or are you just protective of 'Lil Rambo' :rolleyes:?

Wow.

Cupatae

Only here can a child be set upon by 4 men and attacked , he then defends himself and but by some amazing mental gymnastics something close to a magic trick ! He is branded as criminal it's hilarious honestly.

But he is only one wait till more take up arms to put this mob down and defend there cities and property, play times over BLM sympathy is running out and people will start fighting back against riots and looting.

Needless violence and bloodshed caused by BLM and In the end it will all be for nothing, BLM organization will be filthy rich , but the black community will by in large remain in the same state if not worse! I'd imagine alot of people are starting to associate them with violence and racism.

This is completely undoing what MLK stood for and is a disgrace.

Fat Lives Matter

JKnoxer wrote: »

David Dorn,his black life doesnt matter to the retards here...pure scumbags who think his life is an acceptable consequence to their beliefs.

Doesn't matter though, just another black man killed by another peaceful black protester. It only matters when a white cop kills/shoots a black man with countless convictions.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

It's good that you are here to claim you know how he'd feel.

It was my impression that MLK wanted a country where a black man could become president and it would be common place for mixed race relationships to be accepted and for black people to have the legal freedoms that white people had.

I doubt very much he was speaking about the modern moderate and so your attempt liken moderates to the KKK is either purposely provocative or exceptionally ignorant.

I don't know how he'd feel but we have in writings of how he felt and can listen to men that fought beside him and continue to support the wider BLM movement.

If your impression is that that was all he wanted then you need to do more research. If you think he'd be happy with the all the inequalities that still pervade US society you're simply wrong.

Not all moderates, he was very specific about the type of moderate and what they say. You and a bunch of posters here just fall into that category.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Now, some questions for you.

Do you believe that US police force practices are acceptable?

Do you think that it is possible that a culture of inappropriate behaviour can exist more so within a precinct than within a specific individual?

Do you think that police forces use violence too readily in many situations?

Do you think that police have a different mindset when approaching people in a black community than in a white community?

Do you think that it is acceptable that police forces are highly equipped while school and healthcare services in the same districts see services cut due to lack of funding?

Honestly, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

1) I actually do. I think that obviously there is room for improvement but as a whole, I think the American police are doing a good job.

2). I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility, but I would not think it is probable. At least in a not dissimilar way to the way a precinct in an area akin to Foxrock would have a different culture to one in Ballymun. But I would expect there to be a prevailing attitude of professionalism.

3) No. But that is not me saying that it doesn't happen. I think the "many" comes from the fact that almost every one is filmed. There are countless interactions that are not heavy handed. I think with the gun culture in America, police officers are in a difficult situation. They should always be there to protect and serve but also should be able to protect themselves. The onus should be on the person disobeying simple orders to de-escalate to a reasonable extent. (I'm not advocating for capitulation, but reasonable compliance)

4). Not always. I think police going into a crime ridden community would have a different mindset. If they happen to be majority black then that's a matter of population. For instance, is it racist to be wary of trouble at a traveller funeral? Is it racist to acknowledge that there is an awful lot of trouble caused by non white people of a certain age in Balbriggan lately? Is it racist to say that there's an awful lot of white drug dealers wearing tracksuits in Ballymun? There are certain demographics that cause certain problems. It's not always the colour of their skin, but how they present themselves.

5) I am not equipped to even offer an opinion on fiscal issues. I would defund a lot of things before I would defund policing though. It seems good policing is needed now more than ever.

Foxtrol

Tell me how wrote: »

Foxtrol only did so to respond to a poster who has repeatedly (and incorrectly) invoked MLK.

Why can one side utilise someones name or ideals but they other can't?

People who want to believe that MLK made a speech about having a dream, the civil rights bill was passed, and everyone was equal.

MLK and most of the men and women that fought with him were incredibly provocative and caused incredible tension where they protested. Some people don't want to believe that because if they did they'd have to accept that if there was boards at that time they'd be cheering on the police with dogs, batons, and hoses that attacked MLK and saying they deserved it for not doing what the police told them

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't know how he'd feel but we have in writings of how he felt and can listen to men that fought beside him and continue to support the wider BLM movement.

If your impression is that that was all he wanted then you need to do more research. If you think he'd be happy with the all the inequalities that still pervade US society you're simply wrong.

Not all moderates, he was very specific about the type of moderate and what they say. You and a bunch of posters here just fall into that category.

You are equating me to the KKK? Or at the very least, what MLK would consider akin or worse than the KKK?

My impression was that MLK wanted white and black folk to live together in peace and unity with everyone sharing the same rights.

I guess I was wrong was I?

**** sake

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

They are hilarious.

'When I dress like this I'm a tough guy'

https://twitter.com/BulgakovsPilot/status/1219320558615220226?s=20

Any other thread, any other subject, I guarantee you'd be calling this out as some sort of body shaming

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

You are equating me to the KKK? Or at the very least, what MLK would consider akin or worse than the KKK?

He didn't say worse, he said a 'bigger stumbling block'.

You can answer your own question:

- Do you prefer 'a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice'?

- Do you say 'I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods'? (BTW saying you don't agree with the goal is probably worse than saying yes)

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

People who want to believe that MLK made a speech about having a dream, the civil rights bill was passed, and everyone was equal.

MLK and most of the men and women that fought with him were incredibly provocative and caused incredible tension where they protested. Some people don't want to believe that because if they did they'd have to accept that if there was boards at that time they'd be cheering on the police with dogs, batons, and hoses that attacked MLK and saying they deserved it for not doing what the police told them

People like you are a embarrassment to MLK and all be stood for,

It's clear for all to see that MLK would never condone this BLM racism nor would he approve of the white virtue signallers using this movement to make themselves look better and for personal gain.

MLK was respected cause the way he went about things and that he had an actual reason for his movement , unlike today where there is no reason for the mindless violence and racism being incited by the virtue signallers so they can have something to protest about and get there sick fix

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Any other thread, any other subject, I guarantee you'd be calling this out as some sort of body shaming

When did you get so sensitive?

What is body shaming about saying they dress trying to be tough guys and their clothes don't fit?

Plenty of others where they bottoms are too long, too short, they are wearing accessories that don't fit them or aren't right for their weapons. There was a great thread from a former Green Beret that went through pictures of one of the 'I don't like masks' 'militia' protests and tore them apart. Wish I could find it.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

He didn't say worse, he said a 'bigger stumbling block'.

You can answer your own question:

- Do you prefer 'a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice'?

- Do you say 'I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods'? (BTW saying you don't agree with the goal is probably worse than saying yes)

Sorry chief. What questions are you asking me? Because the contexts change depending on the times we live in. MLK was speaking when there was no black president and life was very different.

Negative peace positive peace.... **** off.

If you are asking if I agree with black lives matter on their goal or their methods, it's a no from me.

My opinion is that people, of all races, should be judged on their actions and character and not the colour of their skin.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry chief. What questions are you asking me? Because the contexts change depending on the times we live in. MLK was speaking when there was no black president and life was very different

Negative peace positive peace.... **** off.

If you are asking if I agree with black lives matter on their goal or their methods, it's a no from me.

My opinion is that people, of all races, should be judged on their actions and character and not the colour of their skin.

Well at least you now know what MLK would have thought of your point of view.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

When did you get so sensitive?

What is body shaming about saying they dress trying to be tough guys and their clothes don't fit?

Plenty of others where they bottoms are too long, too short, they are wearing accessories that don't fit them or aren't right for their weapons. There was a great thread from a former Green Beret that went through pictures of one of the 'I don't like masks' 'militia' protests and tore them apart. Wish I could find it.

Yesterday. At 5:23pm. Why?

I couldn't give a flying **** if you insult people on their looks or how they dress. I'm just saying you give the impression that if it was anything else, you would be calling such behaviour bullying.

At least be consistent though and remember that when you next ask people to #bekind

Again mate, knock yourself out.