Hamas mass-murderer Ahlam al-Tamimi

end of the road

DeadHand wrote: »

The Palestinian population has been increasing steadily by 100,000 a year over the last 5 years.

If the Israelis are “ethnically cleansing” them, they are doing a poor job of it.

Or maybe it’s a situation like that of Ibrahim Halawi, who succeeded in visibly gaining weight despite a torturous incarceration that included a period of hunger strike.

nope, that old trope don't work i'm afraid.
a population apparently increasing does not negate the fact that there is an attempt to ethnic cleanse that population.
ethnic cleansing can and does happen dispite a population increasing if a state is engaging in ethnic cleansing against that population, which israel is very much doing so against the palestinians.

Zebra3

suicide_circus wrote: »

Jewish people? you mean the Israeli government?


I know the accusation of anti-semitism is the Israeli government's go-to cop out race card they pull anytime their policies are legitimately criticised but some people make it very easy for them.

My comment was obviously a retort to the OP's use of the phrase "jewish people".

But fair play to you for pretending to be concerned about anti-semitism while not being in the slightest bit bothered about anti-semitism when it's direct against Palestinains. :rolleyes:

Zebra3

speedboatchase wrote: »

If we can park the Israel v Palestine conversation for one sec, this individual is evil imo. These quotes are chilling:

"Afterwards, when I took the bus, the Palestinians around Damascus Gate [in Jerusalem] were all smiling. You could sense that everybody was happy. When I got on the bus, nobody knew that it was me who had led [the suicide bomber to the target]... I was feeling quite strange, because I had left [the bomber] 'Izz Al-Din behind, but inside the bus, they were all congratulating one another. They didn't even know one another, yet they were exchanging greetings...While I was sitting on the bus, the driver turned on the radio. But first, let me tell you about the gradual rise in the number of casualties. While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another...

"I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said "three dead," I said: 'Allah be praised'...Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding."

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/middleeast/ali-dawabsheh-arson-death-israel-wedding-video.html

We can do this all day if you want.

robertpatterson

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/middleeast/ali-dawabsheh-arson-death-israel-wedding-video.html

We can do this all day if you want.

They've been condemned by the Israeli government and rabbis haven't they?
I cant see the same condemnation from the Palestinian authority I must have missed it
All day long....

Zebra3

robertpatterson wrote: »

They've been condemned by the Israeli government and rabbis haven't they?
I cant see the same condemnation from the Palestinian authority I must have missed it
All day long....

The PA didn't condemn Israeli terrorists burning a Palestinian child alive?

Timberrrrrrrr

political analyst wrote: »

They don't.

Israeli military operations are aimed at terrorists and the killing of civilians in those operations is unintentional.

The families of 4 kids playing football on beach would say different.

mouldybiscuits

political analyst wrote: »

Tragic mistakes have been made by Israeli security personnel. The sharpshooter in the second case may not necessarily have been aiming at a wheelchair-bound person. Protesters were warned to stay away from the Gaza border with Israel.

The occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights took place only because of the threat from Arab nations in the Six-Day War.

By the way, neither of those cases is anything to do with the Sbarro restaurant bombing. What did the people in that restaurant ever do to the woman who murdered them?

What about the incidents where they kidnap and torture protestors? Are those just happy accidents too?

Mad_maxx

DeadHand wrote: »

The Palestinian population has been increasing steadily by 100,000 a year over the last 5 years.

If the Israelis are “ethnically cleansing” them, they are doing a poor job of it.

Or maybe it’s a situation like that of Ibrahim Halawi, who succeeded in visibly gaining weight despite a torturous incarceration that included a period of hunger strike.

yes but he was at the cinema prior to finding himself on stage at an islamist rally , he probably ate a trailer load of popcorn beforehand and that kept him in condition during his detention

Mad_maxx

Odhinn wrote: »

Netanyahu may feel that his window of opportunity will only last as long as the current trump presidency, so he may take the risk and go for large scale annexation.

true but its an election year and dont expect biden to express any real opposition either , declaring unconditional support for israel is a pre requisite for any presidential canditate every four years

obama did it , they all do it

Odhinn

Mad_maxx wrote: »

true but its an election year and dont expect biden to express any real opposition either , declaring unconditional support for israel is a pre requisite for any presidential canditate every four years

obama did it , they all do it

Again, it depends on Netanyahu - will he jump before Trump is pushed (presuming he is pushed)? Ultimately the only ally they need is a superpower - no internationaly binding blocades, sanctions or anything else can get past the US veto. Support for the BDS campaign is the best alternative where individuals from around the world can make a difference.

Odhinn

Facts are that they have an even freer hand now, and may well pounce before the window closes

Last month, Biden came out against the move in a private meeting, telling a group of American Jews: “I do not support annexation. The fact is, I will reverse Trump’s undercutting of peace.”


The presidential candidate has also used proxies to carry his message to the public sphere. Biden’s top foreign policy advisor, former undersecretary of state Nicholas Burns, warned that “annexation is the one issue which could most harm the US-Israel relationship.” He warned that the move would receive “almost complete denunciation by the American political leadership.”
Congressional Democrats have uniformly come out against annexation.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/biden-lead-complicates-israel-annexation-plan/

Mad_maxx

hard to see much loss of political capital by trump in giving the green light , the vast majority of americans support israeli doing what they wish , its just how things are over there

no votes in opposing israel

Odhinn

For those interested

July 1, 2020 – As Israel’s far-right government remained silent today about its previously stated plan to begin formal annexation of occupied Palestinian territory on July 1, tens of Palestinian civil society organizations representing the absolute majority of Palestinian civil society called for action, not just rhetoric, to stop Israel’s quiet, decades-long annexation and apartheid rule over Palestinians.


(Today's Palestinian civil society statement)
They reiterated their demand that the international community “impose lawful, targeted and immediate sanctions on Israel in response to its ongoing annexation, illegal military occupation and apartheid regime of racial discrimination, segregation and territorial expansion that is enshrined in Israel’s domestic law.”

https://www.bdsmovement.net/news/palestinians-reiterate-call-for-targeted-sanctions-stop-israeli-annexation?fbclid=IwAR2yBmb_eke-pEYwcwyDt4UOXNgKgFWDGUkLfgzVi_sevf6MUCkUY09FZkg

political analyst

Odhinn wrote: »

"tragic mistakes" is when that kind of thing happens once in a decade or so. The fact is there are hundreds of such incidents, civillians and often children targeted by rifle fire and killed with single well aimed shots to the head.

They happen a lot in an ongoing conflict.

Odhinn wrote: »

The lad in the wheelchair was killed by aimed rifle fire, one round to the head.The autistic man was shot at point blank by a soldier standing over him, while he was begging for his mother and for his life. An occupation this brutal is bound to incite yet more brutality from those who have suffered under it.

That is nothing to do with the Sbarro restaurant bombing. I've explained that recent killing. We don't know all the facts yet. Al-Tamimi was joyful when she talked about the Sbarro restaurant bombing, in which she was involved. Being joyful is not something associated with feelings of hurt. The people in that restaurant didn't do anything to her or her family but you've ignored that point.

Odhinn wrote: »

Annexation of territory by force goes against international law, likewise aiding the colonisation of same.

That's out of context. There wouldn't have been annexation if the Arab nations hadn't tried to destroy Israel.

political analyst

Odhinn wrote: »

For those interested






https://www.bdsmovement.net/news/palestinians-reiterate-call-for-targeted-sanctions-stop-israeli-annexation?fbclid=IwAR2yBmb_eke-pEYwcwyDt4UOXNgKgFWDGUkLfgzVi_sevf6MUCkUY09FZkg

BDS - enough said!

political analyst

rapul wrote: »

Isn't Netanyahu pushing for the annexation of the West Bank now within the next 24 hours aswell, apparently his defence minister doesn't even know what is planned but the Israeli army is ready. Harsh times ahead for the Palestinians as always.

And to answer the OP's question, perhaps the Israelis killed her family and she wanted revenge, wouldn't blame her.

If she wanted revenge then she wouldn't have targeted civilians. If she was vengeful then she wouldn't be smiling about taking revenge.

political analyst

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/collective-punishment-gaza

Zionist terrorism against Palestinian civilians has always been at the forefront of establishing and expanding Israel.

Israel is built on ethnic cleansing and it continues to this day.

Zebra3 wrote: »

What did the 700,000 native Palestinians ever do to the European zionists who drove them from their homes, stole their property, and denied them their right to return?

There would have been a Palestinian state with more land than just the West Bank and the Gaza Strip if the Arab nations had accepted the UN plan for the partition of Mandatory Palestine - a plan that the Jewish Agency had accepted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

It was because of the pressure that the Arab nations put on the British government in the 1930s that many European Jews who were trying to escape from the Holocaust couldn't enter Mandatory Palestine.

end of the road

political analyst wrote: »

They happen a lot in an ongoing conflict.

a lot yes, to the extent it happens in this one, certainly not.
the IDF deliberately engage in targeting civilians, this is very much well known and cannot be denied.

political analyst wrote: »

That is nothing to do with the Sbarro restaurant bombing. I've explained that recent killing. We don't know all the facts yet. Al-Tamimi was joyful when she talked about the Sbarro restaurant bombing, in which she was involved. Being joyful is not something associated with feelings of hurt. The people in that restaurant didn't do anything to her or her family but you've ignored that point.

we do know the facts, they are as odhin stated.

political analyst wrote: »

That's out of context. There wouldn't have been annexation if the Arab nations hadn't tried to destroy Israel.

i have no doubt there would have been a hell of a lot more annexation had arab nations not fought back when israel decided to go on an expansion campaign.

end of the road

political analyst wrote: »

BDS - enough said!

yes, the same bds who israel and it's die hard supporters are scared of.

political analyst wrote: »

If she wanted revenge then she wouldn't have targeted civilians. If she was vengeful then she wouldn't be smiling about taking revenge.

i wouldn't be so sure about that.
push people hard enough and they will do the ultimate bad.
no it's not right, but the israely government and their behaviour are ultimately to blame for these actions happening.
if they behaved like a normal country then they wouldn't have anything near the issues they have.

political analyst wrote: »

There would have been a Palestinian state with more land than just the West Bank and the Gaza Strip if the Arab nations had accepted the UN plan for the partition of Mandatory Palestine - a plan that the Jewish Agency had accepted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

It was because of the pressure that the Arab nations put on the British government in the 1930s that many European Jews who were trying to escape from the Holocaust couldn't enter Mandatory Palestine.

no there wouldn't have been, the land they got was the land they were ever going to get.
it wouldn't have mattered what they would have accepted, the reality is we would have been where we are currently in the end.

rapul

Fair play to end of the road, don't have it in me to reply properly now, but I agree with the points made in reply to our analyst there

utyh2ikcq9z76b

rapul wrote: »

Fair play to end of the road, don't have it in me to reply properly now, but I agree with the points made in reply to our analyst there

It's all part of Israeli propaganda they have army of cyber trolls
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/guide-dealing-zionist-trolls-and-their-facts

Better not to engage with them. Ireland is at the forefront as we have voted mainly pro Occupied Territories Bill TDs

rapul

Samir Lazy Aerosol wrote: »

It's all part of Israeli propaganda they have army of cyber trolls
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/guide-dealing-zionist-trolls-and-their-facts

Better not to engage with them. Ireland is at the forefront as we have voted mainly pro Occupied Territories Bill TDs

I know, was my first thought tbh, ah I'm not going to get into it now don't have it in me, like I said fair play to the above, but whatever plans bibi had have been put on hold, for now anyway, time will tell.

Odhinn

political analyst wrote: »

They happen a lot in an ongoing conflict.

...a conflict in which Israel is the aggressor.

political analyst wrote: »

That's out of context. There wouldn't have been annexation if the Arab nations hadn't tried to destroy Israel.

Annexation of territory by force is illegal under international law. Repopulating areas with the occupiers civilian population is again illegal under international law. Russia's annexation of Crimea is a violation of international law, Saddam Husseins attempted annexation of Kuwait was a violation of International law. Why should Israels thuggery be viewed any differently?

Sabella

political analyst wrote: »

They happen a lot in an ongoing conflict.




That is nothing to do with the Sbarro restaurant bombing. I've explained that recent killing. We don't know all the facts yet. Al-Tamimi was joyful when she talked about the Sbarro restaurant bombing, in which she was involved. Being joyful is not something associated with feelings of hurt. The people in that restaurant didn't do anything to her or her family but you've ignored that point.



That's out of context. There wouldn't have been annexation if the Arab nations hadn't tried to destroy Israel.

Again your username is misleading because you seem biased in your assertions

1. You say the killing of civilians is common as it is a part of ongoing conflict? The bombing of the restaurant is the killing of civilians albeit by alternative and Disgusting method.

2. When a poster highlights the shooting of a civilian in a wheelchair you brush it aside and refer back to the restaurant bombing. In relation to the shooting of the civilians you also say we don’t have the full facts. When will we get them and would you please post them here so we can analyse them.

The divide between Arabs and Muslims dates back to the time of Abraham and before it is very complex and there have been atrocities by Christian, Muslim and Judaism since that time in that region. You seem focused on one particular bombing but there have been many throughout Israel over the last number of decades and so again I would recommend reading a little more in-depth in the subject and the region and maybe consider changing your username.

I do not in any way condone violence of any form against any human being but I do have an issue with one sided political analysis

Odhinn

An interesting article on why Netanyahu is holding back any action on annexation at least for the moment
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-many-will-take-credit-but-this-is-the-real-reason-netanyahu-delayed-his-annexation-1.8963894

political analyst

end of the road wrote: »

yes, the same bds who israel and it's die hard supporters are scared of.



i wouldn't be so sure about that.
push people hard enough and they will do the ultimate bad.
no it's not right, but the israely government and their behaviour are ultimately to blame for these actions happening.
if they behaved like a normal country then they wouldn't have anything near the issues they have.



no there wouldn't have been, the land they got was the land they were ever going to get.
it wouldn't have mattered what they would have accepted, the reality is we would have been where we are currently in the end.

Look at the map in which the UN partition plan was drawn and you'll see that an Arab state in the former Mandatory Palestine would have had far more land than just the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

political analyst

Sabella wrote: »

Again your username is misleading because you seem biased in your assertions

1. You say the killing of civilians is common as it is a part of ongoing conflict? The bombing of the restaurant is the killing of civilians albeit by alternative and Disgusting method.

The difference is that Israeli military operations were not intended to kill civilians - the Sbarro restaurant bombing was.

Sabella wrote: »

2. When a poster highlights the shooting of a civilian in a wheelchair you brush it aside and refer back to the restaurant bombing. In relation to the shooting of the civilians you also say we don’t have the full facts. When will we get them and would you please post them here so we can analyse them.

I did no such thing. It's possible that the sharpshooter was aiming that militants who were throwing missiles and thus didn't intend to hit the wheelchair-bound person.

political analyst

Odhinn wrote: »

...a conflict in which Israel is the aggressor.

It wouldn't have happened if the Arab nations hadn't tried to destroy Israel. Israel didn't start the conflict and thus can't be the aggressor. Recognition by most of the international community is moral justification of a state's existence.

Odhinn wrote: »

Annexation of territory by force is illegal under international law. Repopulating areas with the occupiers civilian population is again illegal under international law. Russia's annexation of Crimea is a violation of international law, Saddam Husseins attempted annexation of Kuwait was a violation of International law. Why should Israels thuggery be viewed any differently?

Ukraine wasn't going to invade Russia. The West Bank hasn't legally belonged to any state since 1948. Hence, not the same.

Israel's self-defence is not thuggery.

Sabella

Look you are fully entitled to your opinion, this could go around and around and around, I respect your stance but I’m opting out. I hope the situation can be resolved eventually in that part of the world through communication and peace and not violence

All the best

Timberrrrrrrr

political analyst wrote: »

The difference is that Israeli military operations were not intended to kill civilians - the Sbarro restaurant bombing was.


I did no such thing. It's possible that the sharpshooter was aiming that militants who were throwing missiles and thus didn't intend to hit the wheelchair-bound person.

This is a blatant lie, there are many instances of IDF soldiers killing innocent civilians including children.