Do you think a Champions League win will be devalued this year?

Sheridan81

Four second legs of last 16 ties might be played in Portugal instead of the club's home ground, effectively nullifying home advantage.

The quarter finals & semi-finals are set to be one-off games in Portugal.

In front of empty stands presumably and all this after the leagues have ended.

Will it be less of an achievement to win the Champions League in 2020?

Agent Coulson

The two French teams are at a huge disadvantage since there league was finished and they won't have any competitive football till it starts.

ERG89

I've far less interest in the new format as so many of the best moments in the last few years are second leg turnarounds and key away goals. When its a single leg the games will be more cagey, the second legs to be played there is no real advantage for the home team in them either and with sides like Bayern and especially PSG not playing for a while it won't help matters. Looking at the fixtures a team could be asked to play 3 games in 8 days if you play the last quarter final which is a clear disadvantage.

CSF

In short, no.

WesternZulu

Is this a trap for Liverpool fans?

Entice them to say yes so they can say they won the last 'meaningful' CL and then ask them to explain why the same doesn't apply to the PL

Mr.Nice Guy

I think most people will understand the difficulties the virus has brought about. I feel it would be a much worse scenario if there was no winner. Just get the competition sorted and move on.

Jimbob1977

It will always be remembered as the corona virus season.

Empty stadia. Atmosphere of a training ground match. Tying up the loose ends.

Still, the best team will probably win it and deserve it.

There will be an asterisk beside it in the history books, unfortunately.

murpho999

Of course it's not devalued.

The format has changed but it still up to the best team to go and win it.
Competition formats change all the time. The Champion's League used to be The European Champions' Cup with only league winners. Are either set of winners devalued in any way ? No.

The FA Cup: All drawn games would go to multiple replays (Liverpool v Arsenal in 1980 semi finals had 3 replays). Did scrapping replays devalue it?

World Cups & European Championships also always change formats.

So I don't see how it's devalued as there's a competition to win and I think the new format could be a spectacle.

murpho999

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It will always be remembered as the corona virus season.

Empty stadia. Atmosphere of a training ground match. Tying up the loose ends.

Still, the best team will probably win it and deserve it.

There will be an asterisk beside it in the history books, unfortunately.

Eh,no there won't.

Fitz*

No

I think the biggest thing for me is the lack of second legs. Teams do not have the chance to overturn a first leg loss or freak result.

Every team sets out the season knowing that in Europe, you will also get a second chance playing against a team and can make it right and beat them on aggregate. Up until the final of course. That chance is now removed.

At least when leagues restarted, without fans, teams knew that they would still be playing all their home games and all their away games. They can prepare for the 10 games as a batch of an overall 34-38 game season. In a league season, a once off freak result can be rectified over the course of time. Generally speaking if you are fretting over one referee decision or poor sub and lose a game, well you have 37 other games to ensure you win and make up for it. That is not possible in an once off game with no second leg. And the home advantage issue is also more prevailant in this cup format compared to the leagues.

Clubs such as RB Leipzig will be missing key players now too. I know clubs have injuries etc at different times but he is actively choosing to not play in the competition because of a transfer agreed after the last game. And then you have the French clubs dilemma.

dfx-

It's a different challenge, not a devalued one. The same calibre of opposition is in the way of winning it as ever.

Father Hernandez

I think the one legged games could suit someone like Atalanta.

If they get a decent draw, I'd fancy them as a real outsider to reach the final, never know on the day.

yourdeadwright

To be honest PSG would have been one of the favourites now it's an almost impossible task for them

Sheridan81

No

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course it's not devalued.

The format has changed but it still up to the best team to go and win it.
Competition formats change all the time. The Champion's League used to be The European Champions' Cup with only league winners. Are either set of winners devalued in any way ? No.

Many have disagreed.

Competitions change format all the time, true; sometimes in the process they are devalued, if only a little. For example, the Uefa Cup's transformation into the Europa League has, by general consensus, undermined the competition.

Imagine if Bayern Munich got this draw in August to win.

Napoli
Lyon
Atalanta

In front of empty stands, virtually training matches.

Would that really be comparable to Liverpool's heavenly, majestic glory of last year?

Cookiemunster

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The two French teams are at a huge disadvantage since there league was finished and they won't have any competitive football till it starts.

The French Cup final (PSG v St.Etienne) is to be played on July 24th and the League Cup Final (PSG v Lyon) is to be played on July 31st, so they won't be totally cold

Shanotheslayer

I think there's more of an asterix beside the CL than the PL this year.

Daz_

ERG89 wrote: »

I've far less interest in the new format as so many of the best moments in the last few years are second leg turnarounds and key away goals. When its a single leg the games will be more cagey, the second legs to be played there is no real advantage for the home team in them either and with sides like Bayern and especially PSG not playing for a while it won't help matters. Looking at the fixtures a team could be asked to play 3 games in 8 days if you play the last quarter final which is a clear disadvantage.

It seems like plenty of Liverpool fans like the idea of it being devalued . If they were still in it the opinion would be different of course .

Sheridan81

No

Imagine if Lyon don't have to play Juventus in Italy. A win over them would be then devalued.

Same if Napoli don't play Barcelona in Spain. Devalued.

One-off knockout matches arguably increases the chances of fluke results and the lesser lights like Atalanta winning. Not a cowboy's chance in hell of them getting to the final with two-legged ties.

It depends on the draw but it all could be very underwhelming.

ERG89

Daz_ wrote: »

It seems like plenty of Liverpool fans like the idea of it being devalued . If they were still in it the opinion would be different of course .

But I didn't say it was devalued at all.....I said without away goals and second legs my interest is a lot lower than it normally would be as that's the format for a reason. It works, ties are rarely dead and
I watched a lot of Champions League football when Liverpool weren't even in the competition or knocked out.
But a very well thought out reply, clearly you read my post.

Harry Palmr

Well it's a knockout competition not a league so comparisons are bloody idiotic.

As for whoever wins it, if it's a debutant then I'm sure it'll be greeted enthusiastically by their supporters.

Daz_

ERG89 wrote: »

But I didn't say it was devalued at all.....I said without away goals and second legs my interest is a lot lower than it normally would be as that's the format for a reason. It works, ties are rarely dead and
I watched a lot of Champions League football when Liverpool weren't even in the competition or knocked out.
But a very well thought out reply, clearly you read my post.

Far less interest , devalued , but you can split hairs if you want to .

Some would argue knock out football is more interesting -

I couldn’t care less if you don’t like my reply , it’s not surprising that you are a bit sour .

ERG89

Daz_ wrote: »

Far less interest , devalued , but you can split hairs if you want to .

Some would argue knock out football is more interesting -

I couldn’t care less if you don’t like my reply , it’s not surprising that you are a bit sour .

Far less interest means I devalued the whole tournament and think it doesn't matter. Sorry if enjoying away goals and two legged ties more than the new format a tournament was a hot take. :pac:

Thanks for taking the time to mention that I'm a Liverpool fan. I feel guilty I don't think about them as much as others so it was nice to get recognition for my support.

Guy:Incognito

They should have kept the 2 legs imo. Youre only talking 2 extra games ,adding a week to the competition.

LuckyLloyd

It’s different and unique. Crowds not being there would have robbed the two legged format of its intensity anyway.

I think the main weakness, as pointed out above, is the fact that the two French teams will be entirely unprepared. That is unfortunate, and will likely make those two quarter finals very lob sided affairs.

But it’s still going to be amazing and very difficult to win.

Shanotheslayer

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well it's a knockout competition not a league so comparisons are bloody idiotic.

As for whoever wins it, if it's a debutant then I'm sure it'll be greeted enthusiastically by their supporters.

Harry, if you think the CL is similar to a league that is all but over than you're the ''bloody idiot''.

Daz_

Daz_ wrote: »

It seems like plenty of Liverpool fans like the idea of it being devalued . If they were still in it the opinion would be different of course .

8-10

You can't devalue the CL. It's the pinnacle of club soccer.

I desperately wanted us to win it this year and want us to go all out for it again next year.

There's nothing bigger than Ol Big Ears

Harry Palmr

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Harry, if you think the CL is similar to a league that is all but over than you're the ''bloody idiot''.

Did I say that? There's three legs left of this which is 60% of the knockout stages. Plenty of work to do.

MD1990

No

PSG & Lyon it will be their first competitive games in 5 months.
Bayern it will their first in nearly 2 months as well. Only 1 legged after the last 16.

So slightly devalued but still a great achievement who ever wins.

I think the one legged actually favours the underdog teams though. So it will be still a great tournament to watch.

osarusan

Covid-19 necessitates a different structure. Unfortunate but there you go. Still the same teams competing against other. A different challenge, not a lesser challenge.

There won't be any asterisk beside it officially, and the asterisk in people's minds will fade quickly enough I'd guess.

maxwell smart

Surely it will be the same as every other year.

The fans of the the team that win it will be over the moon

The fans of the teams that didn't win it will say 'Ah sure it's winning/coming 2nd, 3rd, 4th in the league that matters'.

The only way people will be more engaged if it's not the team they support is if it's Barca v Bayern(or similar) in the final.

I'm sure that if Barca win it and make it their 6th Champions League / European Cup there will be much written about it

8-10

osarusan wrote: »

Covid-19 necessitates a different structure. Unfortunate but there you go. Still the same teams competing against other. A different challenge, not a lesser challenge.

There won't be any asterisk beside it officially, and the asterisk in people's minds will fade quickly enough I'd guess.

I've never seen an asterisk beside Marseille's name in 1993 despite them fixing a league game in order to prepare for the final. So I've no idea why people would think there's one here.

Liverpool once got through to a European Cup semi final after the quarter final was decided by a coin toss - at the second attempt after the coin landed on it's side in the mud on the first toss.

This idea that no fans or single leg ties changes the competition is nonsense. All 16 teams go into a level playing field in the quarter final onwards.

Cookiemunster

MD1990 wrote: »

PSG & Lyon it will be their first competitive games in 5 months.
Bayern it will their first in nearly 2 months as well. Only 1 legged after the last 16.

So slightly devalued but still a great achievement who ever wins.

I think the one legged actually favours the underdog teams though. So it will be still a great tournament to watch.

As I posted last night.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The French Cup final (PSG v St.Etienne) is to be played on July 24th and the League Cup Final (PSG v Lyon) is to be played on July 31st, so they won't be totally cold

Bayern will play in the DFB Pokal final this weekend, and will play the second leg of their tie against Chelsea, so it will be nowhere near 2 months

yourdeadwright

You know what would devalue it,
IF City win it and then are banned next year that would be pants ,

j8wk2feszrnpao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You know what would devalue it,
IF City win it and then are banned next year that would be pants ,

Why would that devalue it?
City are currently found to have flouted FFP and are set to be banned for 2 years.
If City are not in it, I don't see it de-value the winners of 2021. Marseille didn't play after their scandal, and nobody cared when Milan beat Barca 4:0.
If Cit are shown to have flouted FFP again, then you could say it devalues this year (if they win it), but I don't see it affecting the comp in 2021.

Thanx 4 The Fish

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Why would that devalue it?
City are currently found to have flouted FFP and are set to be banned for 2 years.
If City are not in it, I don't see it de-value the winners of 2021. Marseille didn't play after their scandal, and nobody cared when Milan beat Barca 4:0.
If Cit are shown to have flouted FFP again, then you could say it devalues this year (if they win it), but I don't see it affecting the comp in 2021.

I would imagine it is similar to doping, they have benefited from spending money they should not have to get their team to a position where they could win the Champions League and so effectively, if again proven to have breached, will have cheated to get there and compete in it (obvioulsy only amtters if they win and could be argued that other teams have had to work harder to win the CL in the city cheating era)

Sanctions are often applied retrospecitvely in other sports and championships/winners removed with the next best teams getting the medal etc. alongside their bans.

Sheridan81

No

8-10 wrote: »

This idea that no fans or single leg ties changes the competition is nonsense. All 16 teams go into a level playing field in the quarter final onwards.

It's not nonsense, it's the very definition of 'change'.

No expectant pressure in front of home supporters, no hostile receptions at away grounds. Less matches in less time, less travel, less test of a squad's strength over a prolonged period of time.

How will the players feel? That's arguably the most important thing.

Will their dreams be realised when they're raising the trophy above their heads in front of piped-in crowd noise?

If a previous winner wins, will it really be as special as the others for them? Or hollow and empty?

Will it feel like a European Cup final when they're playing in front of cardboard cut-outs?

Or more like an episode of Billy The Fish?

Sheridan81

No

The winner of this year's competition will be the least worthy since the Champions League began, taking all things into consideration.

Not for me, Clive.

8-10

Sheridan81 wrote: »

The winner of this year's competition will be the least worthy since the Champions League began, taking all things into consideration.

Not for me, Clive.

Less than Marseille?

Mitch Connor

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course it's not devalued.

The format has changed but it still up to the best team to go and win it.
Competition formats change all the time. The Champion's League used to be The European Champions' Cup with only league winners. Are either set of winners devalued in any way ? No.

The FA Cup: All drawn games would go to multiple replays (Liverpool v Arsenal in 1980 semi finals had 3 replays). Did scrapping replays devalue it?

World Cups & European Championships also always change formats.

So I don't see how it's devalued as there's a competition to win and I think the new format could be a spectacle.

By the time the games are played

- The format will have changed mid-season.
- No fans.
- French clubs will be at a competitive disadvantage on fitness
- Some clubs will have sold players that previously would have been available for them (Werner, for example).

You can't compare a tournement changing format prior to it starting qualification, to one changing part the way through a round of matches half way through the season.

Sheridan81

No

8-10 wrote: »

Less than Marseille?

Marseille bribed three players to take it easy in a league match six days before their Champions League final. It's a stretch to say it actually made a difference to their European campaign.

Besides, I have no doubt that several clubs have been involved in doping their players down the years, as well as financial shenanigans, if we want to go down that route.

In terms of the competition, this year's, for me Clive, will be the least impressive no matter what happens.

8-10

Sheridan81 wrote: »

Marseille bribed three players to take it easy in a league match six days before their Champions League final. It's a stretch to say it actually made a difference to their European campaign.

I'm saying that it makes them less worthy champions because they match fixed.

Match fixing is a serious offence against the sporting integrity of the competition.

Doesn't matter how much it made a difference or not, the intention was there.

For you to downplay match fixing because 'it didn't make a difference anyway' is a bit like saying attempted murder or plotting a terrorist attack shouldn't be crimes because nobody died.

To say that Marseille team are more worthy Champions League winners than 2020's Champions because the latter had to play single leg quarter and semi in a neutral venue through no fault of their own is something I can't agree with.

I'm glad to see there's sense in the Poll results here at least.

weldoninhio

No

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course it's not devalued.

The format has changed but it still up to the best team to go and win it.
Competition formats change all the time. The Champion's League used to be The European Champions' Cup with only league winners. Are either set of winners devalued in any way ? No.

The FA Cup: All drawn games would go to multiple replays (Liverpool v Arsenal in 1980 semi finals had 3 replays). Did scrapping replays devalue it?

World Cups & European Championships also always change formats.

So I don't see how it's devalued as there's a competition to win and I think the new format could be a spectacle.

The Champions League was massively devalued when the team that came 4th in their league and have never been domestic champions can win it. Clue is in the name.

CalamariFritti

No

I think it will be for the very reasons posted. Also huge inequality with regards to match level fitness. Bayern for example will not have played a competitive match in 6 weeks or more come August.

kowloonkev

No

weldoninhio wrote: »

The Champions League is massively devalued when the team that came 4th in their league and have never been domestic champions can win it. Clue is in the name.

Do you think it would be a better competition if only one team from each country was in it? I wonder what football would look like today if that was still the case.

8-10

weldoninhio wrote: »

The Champions League was massively devalued when the team that came 4th in their league and have never been domestic champions can win it. Clue is in the name.

I'm pretty sure that everybody who's won it have been domestic Champions in their country at some stage. I think you mean in the year proceeding it rather than 'never'

Also, it used to be just domestic Champions and holder a long time ago and was a lot less competitive. The re-branding to 'Champions League' happened after it was already expanded to non-domestic Champions.

So I wouldn't read too much into the branded name of it, it's like being annoyed that the World Series only has teams from 2 countries competiting in it.

It might not be easier to qualify now that there's more teams in the competition, but that also means it's much harder to win these days than before when the Champions were winning knockout ties against the Swiss, Welsh or Northern Ireland domestic champions.

CalamariFritti

No

kowloonkev wrote: »

Do you think it would be a better competition if only one team from each country was in it? I wonder what football would look like today if that was still the case.

I agree with weldoninho that Champions League is an awfully named thing when some champions have to qualify to even make it to the group stages and elsewhere someone placed 4th just breezes in. Has always been a bug bear of mine with regards to the Champions League.

Would it be a better competition? Most certainly not but in return it would give the next tier - Europa League its called now - a much higher value. Now thats just a micky mouse thing and most big teams don't even want to be in it. And lets be honest all those extra teams in the CL give us the group stages which are just money making exercises. As a spectator I feel you get about one decent match per group, in some groups not even that. The CL starts for me when the group stages are over.

Maybe a compromise. Say you gain Champions League access for two years for winning your national title. So you have two teams from each country. Or some other thing. Now you had teams winning the Champions League that hadn't won their national title for 30 years. Sounds like a dig but its not I quite like Liverpool but they shouldn't have been allowed to win the Champions League.

Quantum Erasure

...but then United would never have won the treble

CalamariFritti

No

I like Liverpool enough but wouldnt care if they never won anything again. Certainly don't like United. And trust me its not about that. I don't even care about PL that much in general, I'm more of a Bundesliga man. But I really have a problem with the Champions League because its mostly non champions.

8-10

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I like Liverpool enough but wouldnt care if they never won anything again. Certainly don't like United. And trust me its not about that. I don't even care about PL that much in general, I'm more of a Bundesliga man. But I really have a problem with the Champions League because its mostly non champions.

Again, don't worry so much about the name, it's branding. It wasn't just champions when they re-branded.

I prefer the term European Cup

Vex Willems

8-10 wrote: »

It wasn't just champions when they re-branded.

I'm pretty sure it was, wasn't until 97-98 that runners up entered the competition.